Share your story of success and failure in business

[NCForester]

My comments to the group are as follows:  I have being sawing for 28 yrs.  Most of that was on weekends and day's off.   Now being retired for 3 yrs., I am doing portable sawing probably 2-4 jobs/month.  I also do backhoe jobs, and tractor work.   All of this keeps me as busy as I want to be.

I just had the Woodmizer Service Guys here today to service my mill.  I try to keep it in good shape and ready to go.  I have sawmill jobs lined up thru June of this year. 

The key to this work is to be patient and not grow too fast.  Be flexable and realize the need is there.

[Dave Shepard]

I had my own landscaping business that I started 15 years ago. I had all new equipment. New pickup, trailer, backhoe, lawnmowers, chainsaws. It was all new. It all had a payment to go with it. In good times, it wasn't too hard to keep up with payments and insurance. In the winter, it was very difficult. In 2004, I was in pretty good shape. All payments and insurance up to date, I had work coming in, and I had learned a lot about planning. Then I got into a motorcycle accident, and I got to learn about a whole new aspect of being in business. I lost just about all of my maintenance clients. I started selling equipment to pay bills. Early 2005 I was hospitalized for eight days, and this pretty much finished me. I started to get behind on payments, some of my equipment needed maintenance that I couldn't afford. By 2006 I had given up my insurances, which pretty much means you are out of business, as far as I am concerned. I managed to keep my backhoe. My truck needed a new transmission, and my credit was toast. It's been a slow climb back, and I haven't climbed very high since then.

The high debt load was a double edged sword. It allowed me to have good equipment for the first five years, and not spend much time working on stuff. But, when you are out of work for even a short period, things snow ball rapidly. I've learned more about how to charge for the work I do, and what situations to avoid. I would take jobs that were not really profitable just to have cash flow. That was shortsighted. I may have gotten enough to buy another tank of fuel for the backhoe, but I had taken a small percentage of the life of my truck, trailer and backhoe in the process without planning for their repair or replacement. Now, if a job doesn't get me clearly ahead, I don't do it. I charge good money for the work that I do, but I do good work, and I don't compromise. This helps build a reputation that will spread by word of mouth. Doing poor work will also build a reputation and spread by word of mouth. ;) I would suggest that anyone starting a business hire an accountant to see what it's really going to take to keep a business going. How to deal with taxes in a way that allows you to reinvest any profits rather than take a hit in a good year. I would also advocate not jumping in with both feet, unless you have no other choice, or you have a good bit of capital to through at the business for the first year or so. I've been in the position of having a lot of work, but no capital to make it happen. One time I had about $5,000 worth of work lined up, and no fuel for my truck or backhoe. I happened to be in a convenience store with $2 to my name and I bought a scratch ticket and won $100. That bought a lot of fuel at $1.18 a gallon. I've also been in the same situation, and won nothing. :D

[kellysguy]

 At 29 you need to take a good look around at what's going on in your area and figure out if whatever you plan on doing is going to be around in 20 years. Whichever direction you go, you don't want to have wasted the past 20 years and have to do a major direction shift....trust me....

[red oaks lumber]

dave
there is always a single point of failure and yours my friend was that motorcycle sorry to hear of your set back. what dosen't kill ya only makes you stronger (old saying)
the part of don't jump in with both feet, opportunities only are around for alittle while. make hay when the sunshines (old saying)
  like i have told my wife for ever, it's only money. material things. the "man " dosen't cut your arm off or take your kids away. without risk there is no reward.

[Dave Shepard]

The hospitalization in 2005 would have taken me out of the game too, but I had both, so nothing was left to chance. :D

[Peter Drouin]

Without risk there is no reward.

[kellysguy]

the part of don't jump in with both feet, opportunities only are around for alittle while. make hay when the sunshines (old saying)
   without risk there is no reward.

And when you can't pay the bill, what you tell them, "Check's in the mail"? ;D

[WV Sawmiller]

I'll try this again. Cyber demons ate the last 2.

Peter - I am impressed with your operation. I'd say you are heavy into lumber retailing or working towards that goal. I ascribe to the MM model more. I am new to the business but in preparation I read everything on this thread that looked like it would help me in setting up a portable milling business. I first thought about getting a manual mill like an LT15GO or LT 28 but family and friends talked me into getting my LT35 HYD. I am glad they did especially since I am light on support equipment. Except for the mill and a few odds and ends I already had everything I currently use - truck, ATV, log arch, chainsaw, etc.

Before Buying a mill I visited the NC WM dealer and looked at the mills. I was sold on WM because of the reputation and what I saw of the mills on the lot. I am not a mechanic but the design looked straight forward and the technical support I read about swayed me to WM vs some other good mills.

Sawing for me is a hobby that should pay for itself and help me earn a little mad money. My bills were all paid and my children raised and educated and independent mostly from income I made overseas working in some real sketchy areas. That kind of work provided good money and lots of R&R so my wife and I have seen some very unique and remote areas of the world.

Before getting a mill I sourced and priced good insurance. From the FF I developed my business cards, contracts, pricing, etc. I reviewed every portable sawmill website I could find then built mine with the help of a local IT guru/family friend. After I got my mill and practiced till I was moderately comfortable I passed out cards freely, made homemade flyers and posted them in likely local stores and businesses like feed stores, barber shops, community/country stores, etc. I just recently advertised in our local weekly newspaper for a few weeks. All of these have gotten me inquiries with more jobs waiting in the wings than appearing yet. "Supposedly" I have several clients cutting and staging logs and will call to schedule when they are ready. Some will - some probably won't follow through. Lots of folks know I am in business but don't need lumber yet. That can change on short notice and they can tell their friends if the topic of lumber comes up.

I have a neighbor half mile away with an LT10 who cuts for the public for about 2/3 what I charge if you want to deliver the logs and pick up the lumber after several months. I am chasing a different market for the folks who can't or don't want to transport logs and lumber or who want it quicker and are willing to pay a little more for that service.

I set up a number of Excel spreadsheets and keep detailed records of all expenditures, sales and scan and keep all receipts. I keep up with my fuel so I can file for return of my road taxes paid when I bought the gasoline. (If I had a diesel machine I'd be using off-road, untaxed diesel but have not found a source for off-road gasoline). Come tax time I can send summary or as much detailed info and my accountant/tax preparer needs.

Time will tell whether this turns out to be a success story or not. It can't be a very big failure as I have not gone into debt or  invested excessively to the point it will affect my savings and retirement funds.

Good luck and thanks to all for the valuable info on this forum.

[shakebone]

We saw pallet wood and board fencing for our mainstay and hardwood and board and batten siding for our niche markets we operate a small kiln it gives us a little bit of an edge we get as many calls on the kiln as we do the mills.I have 3 employees and if you can stay outta that your better off ,it takes time  jump on the roller coaster and hold on !!!!! ;D

[kellysguy]

We saw pallet wood and board fencing for our mainstay and hardwood and board and batten siding for our niche markets we operate a small kiln it gives us a little bit of an edge we get as many calls on the kiln as we do the mills.I have 3 employees and if you can stay outta that your better off ,it takes time  jump on the roller coaster and hold on !!!!! ;D

The biggest problem that he's up against is the gulf coast lost a LOT of trees with Katrina to begin with, and then that area became flooded with mills. What jobs were left after all the free trees were gone were few and far between with way too many mills wanting a piece of the pie.

What I find most concerning is someone who comes from the industry is having trouble getting work. It has a lot to do with the area, there just isn't enough trees and/or work.  Given the fact we're talking trees and not turnips this isn't going to change overnight. Sure there are folks wanting lumber but it's finding the trees that is the problem. Then there is only so much work for an area with dozens of mills.

There is currently a tree guy down there selling a mill, chipper and trailer to buy a dump truck......a tree guy.....

If a tree guy can't find trees, who can?!

I have a close friend who was a VERY busy arborist in the New Orleans area....he now does spray foam insulation

.....in Tennessee.....

[gimpy]

Let me tell you of my opinion on how to fail in business.

I'm retired so keep this in mind. I moved to a very small town (Klamath Falls, OR) in early 2012. Our city is the poorest city in the state. Most area businesses are struggling. Mostly, in my opinion because they work hard to fail.

If you have to depend on your business to survive, you have to be smart. Smart enough to let people know you are in business. Someone earlier said you have to have a good website. You can't make a living if you can't get people in your door, so to speak. Here in this town, it's almost impossible to find anything locally, unless you have lived here for decades. In spite of my age, I know how to research the internet for things I need. But I can't find what I need here. The local Les Swabb (sp?) has a website but has no listing of what they sell or prices. They also don't respond to e-mails, my preferred research tool. Then e-mailed another local tire shop I'd driven by. 3 e-mails over 2 weeks and no responses. Same with the local trailer dealer. No responses to my e-mails. Long story short, my money went over the hill to the big city. I've gotten to the point where the big Brown Trucks are at my door a couple time almost every week delivering what I couldn't find locally. I have a decent retirement income and spend it. But not in my own town.

The town leaders hire expensive experts to try to promote our city/county to get businesses to come here. But they try to get companies that use "normal" tech to conduct business and we don't have the leaders to make it work.

I haven't been able to arrange for classes at our local colleges (intro to welding) and they also don't normally respond to electronic inquiries. We have a couple of first class colleges but we still have the same kinds of leaders in them.

I keep recommending to anyone that will listen to partner up with a computer professor and make a website (using local business license holders) to create something as simple like SHOPKLAMATH.com. Anyone with a current license could be listed and it'd be a way to keep money in our town.

I looked for a public shooting range (This is Oregon after all) in town in 2013. There was one listed on the net at the airport. After numerous visits to the airport without finding it, I finally gave up and called my local representative. I finally got a person to speak to. It turns out it hadn't been open to the public since 9/11. 12 years ago. But it was still listed on the web.

All the crap above is to tell you that if you want business, you have to make sure they know you are there. Portable sawyers locally are advertising on Craigslist. But try to find them on the net. Get on the net in your area and make darn sure you respond to all contacts.

Then you have a good chance to be in business for years to come. Smaller city/county governments can fail also and drive the economy right into the ground. Learn from everyone else's mistakes. Don't repeat what then ones that go out of business have done before you.

I have an income and saw just for myself and my good neighbors. I can't fail because everything is paid for.

I was a small business owner in a one man office for 20 years. Good service and making sure they know you exist is the key to success.

I hope I don't fall off my box now. 

[Peter Drouin]

I'll try this again. Cyber demons ate the last 2.

Peter - I am impressed with your operation. I'd say you are heavy into lumber retailing or working towards that goal. I ascribe to the MM model more. I am new to the business but in preparation I read everything on this thread that looked like it would help me in setting up a portable milling business. I first thought about getting a manual mill like an LT15GO or LT 28 but family and friends talked me into getting my LT35 HYD. I am glad they did especially since I am light on support equipment. Except for the mill and a few odds and ends I already had everything I currently use - truck, ATV, log arch, chainsaw, etc.

Before Buying a mill I visited the NC WM dealer and looked at the mills. I was sold on WM because of the reputation and what I saw of the mills on the lot. I am not a mechanic but the design looked straight forward and the technical support I read about swayed me to WM vs some other good mills.

Sawing for me is a hobby that should pay for itself and help me earn a little mad money. My bills were all paid and my children raised and educated and independent mostly from income I made overseas working in some real sketchy areas. That kind of work provided good money and lots of R&R so my wife and I have seen some very unique and remote areas of the world.

Before getting a mill I sourced and priced good insurance. From the FF I developed my business cards, contracts, pricing, etc. I reviewed every portable sawmill website I could find then built mine with the help of a local IT guru/family friend. After I got my mill and practiced till I was moderately comfortable I passed out cards freely, made homemade flyers and posted them in likely local stores and businesses like feed stores, barber shops, community/country stores, etc. I just recently advertised in our local weekly newspaper for a few weeks. All of these have gotten me inquiries with more jobs waiting in the wings than appearing yet. "Supposedly" I have several clients cutting and staging logs and will call to schedule when they are ready. Some will - some probably won't follow through. Lots of folks know I am in business but don't need lumber yet. That can change on short notice and they can tell their friends if the topic of lumber comes up.

I have a neighbor half mile away with an LT10 who cuts for the public for about 2/3 what I charge if you want to deliver the logs and pick up the lumber after several months. I am chasing a different market for the folks who can't or don't want to transport logs and lumber or who want it quicker and are willing to pay a little more for that service.

I set up a number of Excel spreadsheets and keep detailed records of all expenditures, sales and scan and keep all receipts. I keep up with my fuel so I can file for return of my road taxes paid when I bought the gasoline. (If I had a diesel machine I'd be using off-road, untaxed diesel but have not found a source for off-road gasoline). Come tax time I can send summary or as much detailed info and my accountant/tax preparer needs.

Time will tell whether this turns out to be a success story or not. It can't be a very big failure as I have not gone into debt or  invested excessively to the point it will affect my savings and retirement funds.

Good luck and thanks to all for the valuable info on this forum.

Thanks, I try. You look like you're on the way.

Let me tell you of my opinion on how to fail in business.

I'm retired so keep this in mind. I moved to a very small town (Klamath Falls, OR) in early 2012. Our city is the poorest city in the state. Most area businesses are struggling. Mostly, in my opinion because they work hard to fail.

If you have to depend on your business to survive, you have to be smart. Smart enough to let people know you are in business. Someone earlier said you have to have a good website. You can't make a living if you can't get people in your door, so to speak. Here in this town, it's almost impossible to find anything locally, unless you have lived here for decades. In spite of my age, I know how to research the internet for things I need. But I can't find what I need here. The local Les Swabb (sp?) has a website but has no listing of what they sell or prices. They also don't respond to e-mails, my preferred research tool. Then e-mailed another local tire shop I'd driven by. 3 e-mails over 2 weeks and no responses. Same with the local trailer dealer. No responses to my e-mails. Long story short, my money went over the hill to the big city. I've gotten to the point where the big Brown Trucks are at my door a couple time almost every week delivering what I couldn't find locally. I have a decent retirement income and spend it. But not in my own town.

The town leaders hire expensive experts to try to promote our city/county to get businesses to come here. But they try to get companies that use "normal" tech to conduct business and we don't have the leaders to make it work.

I haven't been able to arrange for classes at our local colleges (intro to welding) and they also don't normally respond to electronic inquiries. We have a couple of first class colleges but we still have the same kinds of leaders in them.

I keep recommending to anyone that will listen to partner up with a computer professor and make a website (using local business license holders) to create something as simple like SHOPKLAMATH.com. Anyone with a current license could be listed and it'd be a way to keep money in our town.

I looked for a public shooting range (This is Oregon after all) in town in 2013. There was one listed on the net at the airport. After numerous visits to the airport without finding it, I finally gave up and called my local representative. I finally got a person to speak to. It turns out it hadn't been open to the public since 9/11. 12 years ago. But it was still listed on the web.

All the crap above is to tell you that if you want business, you have to make sure they know you are there. Portable sawyers locally are advertising on Craigslist. But try to find them on the net. Get on the net in your area and make darn sure you respond to all contacts.

Then you have a good chance to be in business for years to come. Smaller city/county governments can fail also and drive the economy right into the ground. Learn from everyone else's mistakes. Don't repeat what then ones that go out of business have done before you.

I have an income and saw just for myself and my good neighbors. I can't fail because everything is paid for.

I was a small business owner in a one man office for 20 years. Good service and making sure they know you exist is the key to success.

I hope I don't fall off my box now. 

You are 100% right, I call back all customers. If one comes here and wants 2 boards and there in the back and I have to move 500 to get them I do,When the customer sees what I have to move they will say Don't do all that work for 2 boards. I tell them that's what I'm here for. :D :D When someone comes I shut off the mill and help them and not have them wait.
Customer Sevres is what it is all about. I all so have a price sheets printed out and hand them out like candy.
I have customers travel 1 to 2 hours from me to get wood.

[SawyerBrown]

I think being responsive is critical.  I try to respond to all calls or emails (there's an optional form on my website that generates an email) within 24 hours, even if it's just to find out more information. I can't tell you the number of times I've had people tell me they'd called so-and-so and they'd never returned the calls. (Maybe a spouse could help with this??). Be responsive, take a personal interest in what your customer wants, help them in the decision processes. Always be personable and friendly. I looked at an ad for custom milling the other day, and it was all about "won't do this" and "won't do that" and "don't waste my time if ..."  Wow, I wouldn't call this guy even if I did meet all his criteria!  One can always turn down a job, but don't turn people off before you even know what it is!  We all like being around people who are upbeat, knowledgable, responsive ... Just walk in your customers' shoes for a moment and you'll know how to act as a business.  I believe that's one thing that can set you apart from competitors.