Another build thread... JoshNZ

[charles mann]

so i did a bit of research and the leeson 24v dc 2hp motor, according to leeson direct, draws 10 amps less than a 1hp 12v dc (12v 80 amps; 24v 70 amps). i guess its reasonable though to expect double the tq, from 35in lbs on the 12 1hp, to 70 on the 2hp 24 and its double the cost fo the 12v. i was hoping for a bit more tq, but double is better than half. with a 2:1 rgb, that'll give me about 116 ft lbs of tq. only time will tell how much it'll take to raise the saw head. im hoping i can be around 80ft lbs. 

[JoshNZ]

I finally got around to some log clamps today. A bit of a look around here turned up an idea of robnrob2's that I liked. Only I've had a bit of a ballsup, as I close my clamps because of the arc they swing they want to pull the log into the deck slightly too. I knew it would and thought it might be a good thing/more secure but I think it's going to want to turn a square cant as it closes.



 


 

I turned a puck to fit inside the tube I used to slide the clamps on, and plug welded it. Then drilled and tapped for a bolt on each side of the frame that holds the tube so it's easily moved. If I decide I've put them in a silly place it's as easy as drilling two new holes.



 

So other than the pulling downwards problem they work really good, the heel of the handle hits the post just past the lobes centre so it really positively engages into place with that satisfying clonk. I guess I either have to cut a new lever/spike so that its swing is centred on 12 o'clock above it. Or a pivoting spike on the end of it... The floor is open for ideas  ??? ??? ???



 




I counted up the gear teeth too, its a .16 ratio now, the new set will be .20, it's already on the cusp of being underpowered so back to the drawing board with that one  :-\

[charles mann]

I sure wish i had a lathe and mill. You do pretty good work. 

[JoshNZ]

Thanks Charles! They seemed like questionable purchases at the time but are certainly getting their use. No one's saying what the heck will you do with a milling machine any more. But, they are saying what the heck will you do with a sawmill.

I had the mother of all catches when turning the last puck, I was being a stingey bugger trying to use the last of a small round. Parting it off while holding it by the chucks fingernails  : hss blade grabbed and exploded fragments all over the work station, nearly pulled the work from the jaws. Ended up costing a lot more than 2" of mild round  

I think I'm going to cut new levers that curve backwards so that the spike swings from 11:30 to 0:30 on a clock, rather than 10-11 o'clock like it is. In my mind that should fix it... I think?

[Ljohnsaw]

I think I'm going to cut new levers that curve backwards so that the spike swings from 11:30 to 0:30 on a clock, rather than 10-11 o'clock like it is. In my mind that should fix it... I think?

yeah, that's how mine work.  They don't lift or pull that I've noticed:






And my attachment to the cam is a little different than what you did.  I'm at an angle closer to the low side but not at the lowest.  I have nearly 180° swing and have about ¾-1" of throw on the tip.  Usually way more than I need (I have to back off a little with the whole clamp).

[charles mann]

During my build, the "what would i do with it?" has yet to come up. My wife has asked, "why dont i get 1?" bc it would have saved time and money already and in the future. My drive axle cost, after a 25% discount, $1200, 6 months after dropping the build/plans off, i get it back. I think the 25% discount was bc he took "no rush, 6-8 wks" and thought i said 6-8 months. Iv still got a job with him, dropped off 2 months ago, but that truly is a no rush job. Iv got another 2 months before i'll need it. 

Im not understanding your clamping though. I understand the concept, leverage against the bar with the spike on it, but cant wrap my understanding of how it goes together. Ill gander at it on my computer when i get back to the hotel, since there are no fires for us to put out here in cali. 

[JoshNZ]

I'll fix the tips on them and do you a quick vid Charles I think you'll like the mechanism, if I can get the spike to work like John's.

Do yours clunk into place John? Or is it just a wedge clamp? I think my problem started at having the pivot hole and cam hole so close together which was limited by the tube I used. I started with bigger tube but it was going to dwarf the base and look funny. All good though I'll whip some swept levers up and that should do it. Thanks for pics!

I did a fire contract up in Manitoba one year, several months of sitting on my butt for about 20hrs, half of which was flood relief. I feel yr pain!

[charles mann]

Last yr was a $96,000 season. this yr, i barely broke over $62k as of friday's pay check. After surgery in oct, im hopping hire with a company in socal. Better pay and break schedule, plus direct supervisors are some awesome guys i worked with for 4 yrs with my current employer. 

[Ljohnsaw]

Do yours clunk into place John?

More of a "tink".  If I start too close to the log or cant, I'll put a 1/4" to 3/8" divot in the wood.  OK on a log but not so on a cant.  The lever starts out on top and is easy to pull.  about halfway down it has some resistance.  If it wants to stop here, I'm too close.  Then I continue down (little movement caused but the cam) and it hits the bar at the bottom.  I am just barely over-center on the cam.

The drawback on this design is at the lowest setting on my mill, I'm just under 7" off the bunks.  It can only drop to the bottom bolt.  This is not all the way down.



I have another clamp that works sideways - I'll try to get a pic tomorrow when I go up to work.

[JoshNZ]

I see, yeah that is a problem. So they get taken right out of their bracket when you're doing the last cuts on a cant?



 

I changed my mind again, an easy quick fix. I don't know why I had the points hanging out in China like that, it just wasn't necessary. The point is always going to draw a circle around the bolt regardless of the levers shape and to take the point any further back would mean the lever itself contacted the work before the spike. So I just cut them as short as possible and shaped the spike a little less aggressively, I was getting the same divot as you mentioned John. I may even lop the top off all together and weld on something with a bit more surface area.

Here ya go Charles. Seems to work good I'll leave it like that for now.

Log clamp - YouTube

[Ljohnsaw]

So they get taken right out of their bracket when you're doing the last cuts on a cant?

In reality, I only use the big clamps on the logs.  Once I have a flat surface on the bunks, they are not needed - the weight of the wood keeps things from moving/tipping.  Most of my cutting lately has been to make 2x10.  On a 10" wide cant, it stays put with just the log stops up an inch or so.  If the cant is really tall, I'll have the stops up a bit more - just have to remember to lower them so I don't hit them.  I made a mini version that is rotated 90° that I use if I need some support for edging some 2x6 or 2x4 stock.  I will post a pic tomorrow.

While it is impressive the amount of force a cam can impart, you don't need to clamp so hard.  With a log, just trying to keep it from rolling.  For edging, just keeping it vertical.  The saw is not going to lift the wood and it is pulling it into the backstops/log stops.

[JoshNZ]

I spent the afternoon drawing the guards, I have a friend with a table who might be able to cut them for me this evening. Have I done anything stupid or otherwise...?

It'll be 1mm sheet, I figured I will just make it a one piece hood that you lower over the wheels and bolt into place with 4 bolts.



 

 

[Crusarius]

So that means to change the blade the entire guard needs to be removed? If that is the case I bet you that gets old fast.

I learned on my early design do not make anything that flips up unless you like getting concussions. It will inevitably fall on your head or you will walk into it. My final setup has a hinge on the drive side that allows the cover to open like a door. The idle side removes completely. I really like the drive side guard but not the idle side.

Not the best picture and not really showing the opening but if you look closely you can see the hasp holding the drive side cover closer and a spring clip holding idle side on.

[JoshNZ]

So that means to change the blade the entire guard needs to be removed? If that is the case I bet you that gets old fast.

Yaaap.. Good call that was a dumb idea haha.

We decided that fold was going to be too difficult anyway, and basically got nothing done. Just tossed ideas around. I'm thinking 3 parts now, a piece across the top and two ends that open somehow. I can use 1mm aluminium sheet for quite cheap so I think I'll go that route.

[Crusarius]

Do your best not to make it open up. You will be much happier. And so will your noggin

[JoshNZ]

Even if they swing open horizontal like a door? What about whole guard sliding off the end. What would you do if you had a pile of alloy sheet, a CNC table and a bender

[Crusarius]

you just described mine. drive side is door hinged and idle side slides off the end. Prefer to not have to remove the guard but its how it turned out.

[btulloh]

Swing open, meet in the middle is pretty common on commercially made band mills. Lift-off hinges are nice. Basically a box with a lid on the front. 

[charles mann]

@JoshNZ i see and understand the workings of it now. Several have shown pics, but your vid made it click.
Thanks

[JoshNZ]

If you had a bit of round bar for the lobe you wouldn't need a lathe or mill either, cut the slots in the tube with a grinder and the rest is all welding

[Ljohnsaw]

Not really applicable to your build, but here is my sideways clamp for when I get down to something less than 7" that needs a clamp:


 The cam is setup reversed.  This is the locked position, with the handle pointing to the left is released.

I also got a shot of my improved scale:


 
I did two things.  I punched a little dot half way between each scale mark (dark blue).  Then I also punched which scale under every ½ mark and full mark (the faint, uncolored numbers).  That way I can make sure I'm on the right scale.  At the bottom you can see a little carriage bolt head.  That is on a toggle clamp that holds the scale from sliding around.  When I want to cut a 6x something, I center the blade on the pith, release the toggle and slide the scale up until a dot on the 6-scale is under the height marker (a red wire not shown).  I lock the toggle and then raise the head to the full 6-scale full (numbered) mark and make my cut.  Drop down to the next lower 6-scale full mark and cut again.  Now I don't have to mess with the tape measure!

[JoshNZ]

Didn't even have a spare minute to find a straight edge when you were knocking that up huh  :D

Looks like a cool idea, I will do something similar. Do you cut the pith out and dispose or do your two middle boards have half a pith in them each?

One question I meant to ask a while ago, do I need to anchor my carriage to the bed by means of a wheel under a rail on each side or is it safe enough with the weight of everything riding on the angle iron?
I want to put feet on it today and if no rail is needed the feet tubes will go straight on the outside of the frame.

[Ljohnsaw]

You can't use just a normal ruler.  You want to take into account the thickness of the blade/kerf.  So, on my 1" scale, the marks are 1-1/8" so I'm left with a board that is just over 1" thick.  That allows for shrinkage and planing/sanding.  For the bigger stuff (5-6" and larger), I believe I have it set to 1/4" over since there will be more loss to drying.

NEVER, and I mean NEVER, split the pith.  The juvenal wood (the pith) will shrink in length and WILL cause your wood to crook like a banana.  I can show you some really good examples.  So, you box it.  IF the tree is really straight, you can box it in a 2x board.  If there is a bit of sweep, it probably will creep out one side or the other and its best to box it in something bigger like a 4x or bigger posts/beams.  Again, NEVER split the pith - even on a big beam.

My wheels are pretty shallow, cut on my lathe - probably only 1/4" to 3/8" deep groove.  I do not have anything under the rail to hold it on.  Just gravity.  I'm not portable so not an issue, IMO.  My head probably weighs in at 200-250 pounds.  I have knocked it off with an errant smack while loading a big log : , but that is usually just one wheel.

Oh yeah, and NEVER spit the pith... ;)

[JoshNZ]

Got it. Pith wants a good cushion  

I just meant your lines haha. :D I've fixed a couple for ya!



 

I redrew the guards, v2.0... A box on each end with a lid that swings horizontally on lift-hinges at each end. The channel between them will just stay bolted to the frame. There is very little support for the inside corners of the guards so I figured to support them and close them, they can land on two standoffs supported from the other side of the guard where it mounts to the frame. Much like a workshop bandsaw cover.

My friend has a bunch of polished aluminium 1.2mm sheets he's trying to get rid of, I took a sheet home and messed around with the tig welder, was looking too good not to take him up on the offer so I'm hoping to make a bit of a feature out of it.  :-\

That seem functional..?





I'll design a brake/clamping system for transport I'm not worried about the portability issue. No chance the carriage will want to drag itself off the trailer if the blade pinches or something?

[Ljohnsaw]

No chance the carriage will want to drag itself off the trailer if the blade pinches or something?

If my blade attempts to stop, it will stall my 18hp engine.  My entire head will oscillate from side to side (sort of a harmonic dance) when cutting some hard spot (knots).  Like an inch or two.  If I just bump it at the right time I can dampen it out pretty quick.  The most I've had go wrong was a cant I thought was heavy enough and not completely against the log stops.  It slid over to the stops pretty quick when the blade entered but nothing bad happened.  Even when it hit the stops, the head didn't try to go the other way.

Thanks for fixing the lines ;) I did use a straight edge but I had to push so hard on the razor knife to make the line that it wanted to follow its own path.  I should really redo the lines with a V gouge and a clamped fence.