3/8 vs .404 ... Which is better

[Al_Smith]

Can you run a 3/8 bar and chain with a .404 rim sprocket

Of course not .You have to match the complete cutting system to what ever size you are going to run .If you're worried about the price rim sprockets only cost 4-5 bucks a pop unless you get it through Stihl ,then double that .

[Clam77]

Give your favorite dealer a call and ask how much it'd be to get everything to switch it over.  I'm going to guess from a dealer you're going to spend around $125-150 on the switch for that size saw.

For that much you could be saving for a bigger saw that'll come with it- and be properly powered for it.

[JustWondering]

Well I just bought a stihl 056 clutch drum and sprocket but it was a .404 sprocket seeing as I can't use the .404sprocket I purchased a 3/8 rip sprocket as well

[JustWondering]

Everything for 40 bucks

[Al_Smith]

Wow since the Chinese tried to buy up all the scrap steel in world the prices have really gone up on bars and chains,even flea bay which normally isn't a good deal anyway.

It's been some time since I needed any .404 but my Lawd it's twice what it was maybe 3-4 years ago . It's like 123 drivers of skip for an 084 42" bar .I might have to refinance the danged house .Something 48 cents a driver,used to be 24 cents .On the other hand on a back breaker large saw it doesn't see much action so a chain lasts a good while unless you try to cut a rock in two pieces which is why the needs for a new loop .Which I by the way did not do .

[sawguy21]

I quoted a long loop of Oregon 75J yesterday, we get very little call for it anymore.
YIKES Dealer didn't think his customer would go for it.

[Al_Smith]

Over the years they made .404 in .050,.058 and .063 .The later being about all you see today except what goes over flea bay .Fact I got one of the last short reels of .404 skip in .058 that Baileys ever sold ,gone with the wind now .

The 48" hardnose that size chain goes on takes 143 drivers or about 9 feet .Between that reel,two loops already plus two new 72 tooth loops plus the fact that long of a bar is seldom used I think I'm set for life .Unless of course I get the brilliant  idea to take an antique Mac to the west coast and pretend to be an old growth faller .The  odds of that are about as great as me hitting the lottery ,slim to none .

[lumberjack48]

I see Carlton, 25' roll of 404, 58 G  / Chisel Skip Tooth for about a $130.00

[Al_Smith]

Probaley now .Then Baileys were trying to get rid of stock  they didn't move much of and this was one item .Actually it was Greg Grande that brought to my attention they even had any left .I only had about a buck a foot in it and it was Carlton skip as a matter of fact .

You can find some .404 square chisel on flea bay which I suppose might be good if you were on the  left coast .The stuff wouldn't be much good for a midwest tree trimmer that owns said 084 though .Shucks I'd be the one filing the danged stuff especially if it got rocked which it would .I'd not like that task in the least bit .

Lawdy can you imagine knocking the burrs off of 42" of loop .Why it would take a whole case of beer and a dozen files .No thank you .

[lumberjack48]

I can get 404 in, Semi chisel, 58, 63, G
                         Chipper,        58, 63
                         Micro-cut,           63
                         Micro-cut, Ripping, 63
                         Chisel,  58, 63
                         Skip tooth, 58, 63
                         Macro Chisel, 80
                         Semi Chisel Ripping, 63

The last time i ran 404 was on a 08 Stihl, then the 08S Stihl came out, it had a 3/8 chain, it was twice the saw with the 3/8, never went back to a 404 again.

[HolmenTree]

The last time i ran 404 was on a 08 Stihl, then the 08S Stihl came out, it had a 3/8 chain, it was twice the saw with the 3/8, never went back to a 404 again.

The Stihl 08S is only 56cc in engine displacement, the older 08 before 1969 were only 48cc. Don't let size fool you the 08 was built tough , go all day at one speed, not a racehorse thats for sure. First ones came out around 1964 and still in production today on driving attachments.
I remember .404 on the old 08. Good match both tough ,long life and got the job done.

[lumberjack48]

I bought a new 08s in 1965, for a $165.
My Lumbard Lighting III was a animal compared to the 08s, but not as dependable

The 08s is the smoothest running saw i ever ran, it wasn't a will balanced saw. I think it is one of the best saws Stihl made, i left it out on the strip where i was cutting, I'd throw it in a brush pile and cover it up a few limbs so nobody could see it. It snowed about a foot one night, i had a heck of a time finding my saw, everything looked the same out in the Spruce swamp. I thought somebody stoled it, i was ranting and waving, who would take my saw. Then my brother says shut-up your saw is over here right where you left it.

[sawguy21]

The 08s was a poorly balanced saw but what a work horse. They were popular with the  local orchardists.
We sell very little .404 chain now, a few fallers with MS880's up the coast but that is about all.

[lumberjack48]

Offsite photos are not allowed. Photos must be in a Forestry Forum gallery

I thought I'd share a pic of a 08S [super]

1965 it came out with a 404 pitch chain and solid nose bar, can you manage the HP lose dragging that heavy chain over a solid nose bar.

The one i bought in 65 had a 3/8 pitch chain with a solid nose bar, the dealer must have changed it over to 3/8, this is a ???, you can imagine the difference in chain speed.

This is a saw anybody could buy and it would run for you, on less you fell a tree on it , ran over it or didn't mix the gas.

[Randy88]

I've got a stihl 660 and it came with 3/8 050 chain on it, after all the years and chains I've gone through we switched over the 404 063 guage chain, best thing I've ever done, there is no comparision in link size, link wear surface, or chain strength between 3/8's and 404 chain, not to mention 404 stays sharp longer and has a better ability to endure the dirt and debris problems we encounter.     Lay them side by side and compare what you get, 404 is still a better buy over 3/8's when you factor in the variables, our total cost per year to run 404 is a fraction of what the total cost was 3/8's even with cheaper to buy prices of the 3/8 chain, toss in the saved headaches and you couldn't give my 3/8's on any larger saws ever again, I'm considering switching over my one year old 460 to 404 also, yes it pulls harder and cuts slower but at the end of the day I've saved more time and headaches vs running 3/8's chain I"m thiniking it'll be worth it.   As to what you should do, make up your own mind and go with what you decide, if it were me for the price difference, I'd go to 404 and not look back, there will be 10 tell you not to do to every 1 that will, it also depends on what saw your going to buy thats bigger, if the bars and drivers fit on both saws then you have one set of wear parts to keep track of and buy and carry to the woods or have in your toolbox.    Again its your decision to make, best of luck

[Al_Smith]

I'm so sure were it I if I would spend the money to change it .What you have already will get-er-done .

As far as the .404 I only use on the antiques which some might find it hard to believe but those old luggers will actually cut faster with it than 3/8 " Now I'm talking chisel chain not chipper . Those over 100 cc like the 125 Macs and 2100 Homelite even pull long bars with a 8 tooth rim and full comp chain .Doesn't faze them a bit .48" hard nose bar ,chips coming out the back like a wood planer .

[tcrew]

Well I use it for bucking fire wood once in a while a tree some where on the property. But typically 5-10 cords a winter

,,,, At what ur cutting,the narrow 3/8 is the better way 2 go. The other guys said it best, no reason for that change to a heavier and wider kerf chain. I personally think the more narrow the kerf on a chain,the farther ahead u are at the end of the day on wasted wood in the form of saw dust. So if ur not dropping or bucking giants,then stick with the 3/8. And then there is the wear and tear on ur saw. So if it aint broke,why fix it? Cut safe out there

[tcrew]

Probaley now .Then Baileys were trying to get rid of stock  they didn't move much of and this was one item .Actually it was Greg Grande that brought to my attention they even had any left .I only had about a buck a foot in it and it was Carlton skip as a matter of fact .

You can find some .404 square chisel on flea bay which I suppose might be good if you were on the  left coast .The stuff wouldn't be much good for a midwest tree trimmer that owns said 084 though .Shucks I'd be the one filing the danged stuff especially if it got rocked which it would .I'd not like that task in the least bit .

Lawdy can you imagine knocking the burrs off of 42" of loop .Why it would take a whole case of beer and a dozen files .No thank you .

...... Well a case of beer and a dozen files sounds like a chainsaw party to me! Any one else still have them? get the boys together and get after it,then when done, grab them files and that case and call it a day.
Another name for that,,work! But chainsaw party just sounds so much better...lol