Post Winter Diagnosis. More than just a fuel pump.

[doc henderson]

I was out sawing and started having trouble.  the engine would die just like I turned the key off.  I thought I will add this to Brads thread on fuel pump issues.  I have an electric one that comes on with the key.  I could still hear it making its noise, but thought might not be functioning.  Impellor or valving... not sure what all is inside.  then there is one on the engine.  My mill is over 10 years old and is outside not under cover.  Timberking 2000.  Kohler 38 hp.  

So, I check fuel level.  the fuel line is looking and feels more like Styrofoam.  so, I looked to see if I had flow out the fuel line.  Oh, had a crack just out of the pump.  When I pulled the line off, the brass fitting pulled out of the housing.  I am thinking OK, maybe just time to get a new pump.  24 bucks and a roll of fuel line.  I pulled the whole pump off to work on it in the shop.  ordered an identical pump.  I had changed the inline plastic fuel filter checking that first.  there is a metal automotive type one that screws into the external pump.  I pressed the fitting back into the pump and it felt tight, but a tiny little green O-ring was half in and half out, as it was as old as the pump and now a bit oversized.  Pulled it back out and put the O-ring in the hole, instead of on the fitting to press in.  Of course, I dropped it once out by the mill and spent 5 minutes looking for it.  

I was working on the axe target order and trying to knock it out.  I could not find my small engine fuel line, might be out, so clipped back the end with a crack at the bend near the outflow of the pump.  reassembled it all.  It would cut with full power but die as I brought it back over the cant towards the operator.  "This is odd", if it is not getting enough fuel it should die under load.  I also began to see, that it dies about halfway back.  about 8 inches from the fender.  When it died, it sounded more like the key was turned off.  I tried to throttle down and return, and it did better.  Also, it would still start right back up.  this engine has always has/had a backfire after shutting off after working hard.  It would die, wait about 5 seconds, then a backfire.  so, then I was thinking of my neighbors' cars where he would have a switch to turn off the ignition and turn it back on to make a backfire and flames out the exhaust.  So I thought, maybe the coil or ignition is glitchy.  Then I noticed my setworks was off.  I thought, "did I turn the key off"?  But no and the setworks has its own power, so you can stop the engine and save the settings and start back up.  So, I checked wiring and connections to the battery.  We all know bad grounds do weird stuff in 12 v neg. ground systems.  Because now I have an electrical issue with the setworks and the engine stopping.  climbed up and started looking at all the wires on the engine.  a few looked worse for wear but no big break.  I did find a little white wire and it was about 3 inches long, coming out of the top of the engine, but no corresponding other end to connect to.  hmm.  So, it appears to be an accessory wire or something, that looks like it has never been used.  Thanks, I need some more things to worry about and go down a dead-end rabbit hole!     So kept looking and tracing stuff out.  Hey what are these two wires, oh looks like one of those "shut the engine down if your oil pressure goes too low".  Glad I have that on this engine.  I looked at my oil filter and had changed the oil last fall and have not run it much.  So, I checked the oil.  Barely on the dipstick!   .  filled it up with oil, and it runs fine.  the rapid return must have sloshed enough oil to kill the engine.  Could have posted this on the did something dumb thread.  Glad I have that feature.  It is an option on the engine on my log splitter but not hooked up to a light or to ground the ignition.  i think I will change that.  

[doc henderson]

fuel line with the inline filter and the fitting that decide to stay in the line instead of the pump.  note the little green devil O-ring.  Yes Tom, I had loosened the hose clamp.     the first repair was to cut 1 inch of hose off and reattach, until the new hose arrives. 



the connections to my setworks looked good.  the one on the left was a little "not tight" and tightening it did not fix the problem, but a wiggle and retightening, did fix it.  need to take some connection cleaner out. 



had to get a 3-foot stump for the axe venue for a nail driving game for those unspeakable no axe throwing types.  took that off and trimmed the other ends and put it on the mill.  saws great.  i did notice the drive side blade roller guide was not spinning as much and seemed to be out of line, although it still had a set off the back.  It was cutting fine but time for a measure of blade to deck and checking the 1/4 inch down pressure.  I put some seafoam in the gas to ward off evil spirits.  I had considered I might have some water in the fuel, but the repeat of where it died each time had me check wires in the energy chain, but the engine is independent to most things that make it spin. 

[doc henderson]

So huge differential and some of them made no sense, but one or two of the symptoms fit.  In the end, it was a safety feature to protect the engine from me.  So, none of the other stuff I found was causing the trouble.  the trouble was caused by the components of the engine doing their job.  If your mill sets for the winter, and especially outside, good to have a once over... or twice.  I have a punch list of 20 things to do, none of which caused this problem.  If you recall I had problems cutting at camp Alaska.  I thought the in and out on the roller guide was frozen or in a bind due to the cold.  I adjusted (loosened) the chain.  I pounded on the rod to move it out, it never freed up.  the reversing polarity toggle switch was bad.  I guess I will stick with my day job.  However, this is very reminiscent of what I do at work.  I just do not smell so much like gas when I go in at night.  



spalted butt of the test log.



what is it?

[doc henderson]

I will clean up the engine and see if I have a leak.  I have never had this happen.  oil filter not leaking.  will check the plugs.  

[Old Greenhorn]

It could be that you got a false reading when you filled the oil, from stuff dripping down, or oil caught in a pocket made it look properly full, or the filter was not yet full and you were distracted by other stuff. I have this issue with my Mule and have to be careful. SO I fill it as best I can, then run it for a while, then let it sit several hours or overnight and check it again. More than a few times I have had to add oil.
 Always check the simple stuff first.

[doc henderson]

I bet you are right Tom.  no smoke and not enough mess to account for the oil loss.  for the record, the oil was a nice golden color.  

[Ben Cut-wright]

Have you been using ethanol fuel? "10 years" is one while but the hose in the photo looks like fuel damage.

An LED light on the low oil shutdown circuit is an easy helpful feature.

The "backfire" at shut-down can be overcome by opening the throttle to wide-open position at the same time the ignition is shut off.  Contrary to popular thinking, the so called "anti-backfire solenoid" doesn't insure prevention of backfires. Backfires should be avoided.

Odd to lose that much oil after the recent oil change with no indication of leaks. Dipsticks can lie during oil fill. Short rotation of the engine usually suffices to get a correct reading. If you put the measured amount back in after oil drain the dipstick reading during refill doesn't matter. 

Was fortunate to have the low oil device, it prevented engine damage.

[doc henderson]

It shut down at full throttle so inspired fuel in the cylinder and stopped, and then auto ignited, I think.  It normally try to throttle down and idle for a bit.  It does it when working hard usually. yes, I think I will premeasure the oil.  I usually pour out of the gallon jug and use the same oil for all my small engines, so fill until it is right on the dip stick.  It is 91 octane and not ethanol fuel.  the inside looked better than the outside.  I think the rubber had rotted and needs replaced, but as mentioned, it was a problem I found but not the issue.  Thanks.

[Nebraska]

Trade you a Predator......

[WV Sawmiller]

   I sawed a couple weeks ago on a mobile job and oil was right at the bottom but the mill was leaning. When I got home and set the mill back up level it was a little low and I added about a pint and topped it off.

   I am anal about never starting a small engine without first checking the oil.

[doc henderson]

No thanks on the predator Doc.  But don't think I wasn't wondering what a Kohler price would be.  I will be so smart by the time I am dead!  The key is to learn from your mistakes.  Overall, I got to know my mill better, and will be fixing stuff that is not stopping me from sawing yet.