Cords per acre sustainably

[Ron Wenrich]

Why set up permanent plots?  Can't you get the same results by taking core growth samples? 

It seems to me that tree growth is different for trees in the different strata of the forest.  So, how useful are yield curves when used with surpressed or overcrowded conditions?

When doing growth projections, I've normally used the past 10 years growth to reflect the next 10 years, all things being equal like weather.  That can give me a growth projection on an annual basis.  I can also spread it out for various species throughout the stand, and even make it specific to timber types and other factors.  It also will yield future stocking densities, and what perscriptions are necessary.

What am I missing?

[SwampDonkey]

Ron's method certainly is an excellent idea.

Although, some species are easier to core and age than others. Which rings are annual or false? May not be a big issue.

By measuring cores you have no change in height, just for an instant in time you measured and cored the tree.

Yield curves aren't going to be accurate enough for annual increment calculations of volume, now that I think about it. You have to measure to the nearest mm and measure heights on each tree, then apply Smalians or some other volume equation for merchantable volume. Our curves are based on 2 cm dbh and 2 m height classes.

When doing growth projections, I've normally used the past 10 years growth to reflect the next 10 years, all things being equal like weather.

I agree that's probably a safe assumption, but development stage can influence that (growth increment) alot if you look at it over a longer period.

It also will yield future stocking densities, and what perscriptions are necessary.

Yes, with basal area taken at your plots, not by cores alone.

[Ron Wenrich]

Basal area is a function of stem diameter.  As long as you are working on a per acre basis, its easy to convert your basal area without counting at the plot. 

I have done core samples by using 1/4 acre plots.  But, I believe I could do the same by using the variable plots and a prism.  But, you would be averaging several plots together to get an overall view of the stand.  Only take cores of representative trees, ie not the ones that are growing the best or the worst.  And, you don't have to core that deep.  Several inches will normally get you at least 10 years.

[SwampDonkey]

Basal area is a function of stem diameter.  As long as you are working on a per acre basis, its easy to convert your basal area without counting at the plot. 

Yes, no arguement there, when diameter is measured.  I've done it for stump cruises with 10m radius plots, where stump diameter is converted to dbh. Those plot based cruises can get expensive. Most of my cruises are prism/reloscope cruises. I did some PSP's for DNR and the rate was $225 per plot.

[Phorester]

TOM:

"Y'all are real lucky to own some Beech front property.  Down here in Florida they are getting some tall dollars for that"  Har, har.

Remember the TV series, Baa Baa Black Sheep, about the WWII marine fighter squadron in the Pacific?
One episode had the main character Pappy Boyington fighting it out with a Japanese pilot over a small vacant island. They damaged each other's planes enough that they couldn't get back to their bases.  They contacted each other on their radios.  (Yeah, stupid, but that's TV...)

Pappy says, after we bail out, let's meet at that beach on the North end of the island. Now what my Forester's ears heard was...., let's meet at the BEECH.  How stupid those TV writers are, I thought.  How could they think those guys could see a single beech tree from a thousand feet above the ground?  When they met each other on the ground at the BEACH, I laughed my butt off at my own stupitity.

[Tom]

 :D :D  thanks for recognizing that joke.  ;D :D

I thought I had slipped one in on everybody.  Usually my
humor is ignored. :-\ :P

I remember the Black Sheep show you talk about.

You know what?

My Dad was on Pelilieu and his commander was  Ace
Hunter Reinberg.  Hunter became a good friend of
Dad and vice versa.  There are stories of those two.

Anyway.  When Boyington went down and was captured
by the Japs, Hunter took over the Black Sheep for a while.
My Dad was quite a guy as a Marine and rubbed shoulders
with a lot of elite.  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

:D :D  thanks for recognizing that joke.  ;D :D

I thought I had slipped one in on everybody.  Usually my
humor is ignored. :-\ :P

Naw, it wasn't ignored. There are a few beech jokes. Some of us just aren't quick enough to pick up the ball and run with it. ;D :D :D

[maple flats]

I been reducing my beech front property, opting for better species to grow. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Phorester]

Very interesting, TOM.  I did a search on Reinberg and saw he shot down a total 7 planes.  This site was hard to figure out, it was just a list of pilots and several columns of info about each, but I think he also flew in Korea.  Amazing that your father was there alongside these two, and the other pilots of this famous squadron.

Was your father also a pilot?   

[Tom]

Yep. He was a Pilot of sorts in the Marine Corps.  Actually he was an Ordinance Officer back when a lot of the enlisted men flew.  He wasn't a pilot by trade, but could get a plane from one place to another if it had to be moved.  He was a CWO.   

When the war was over, the guys went their separate ways.  As they aged, they all gravitated to the little hometown of my Dad, Wabasso, Fl.   Hunter Reinberg wrote a book.  I have a copy packed away safe from from fire and hurricane.  I get it out now and again.  It's not very professionally written but is sure interesting.   I think the name of it is "A Pilot's logbook" or something like that.  It is excerpts and descriptions of some of Reinbergs missions.  The one that I like the most is "The Two Headed Pilot".   In a nutshell:

Dad was ragging Reinberg about tearing up "his" (Dad's) airplane.  In-fun ragging like "We work all night and you go on a joy ride and get holes punched all in it."  They were flying F4U's

Well, Reinberg offered to take Dad up on a  mission.  Dad was a rounder and game for anything.  He went.

The only way to get two in the cockpit was to not wear a parachute.  Dad Sat on the bottom and Reinberg sat in his lap.  They got off of the ground without the tower seeing them and went on a bombing and strafing mission where Hunter was attacking ground troops but mostly Jap ships trying to hide in the lee of the islands.

He made a believer out of Dad and they returned to base where a Ferry pilot just in from California with another plane reported two heads in fighter.  The tower told him he was full of it but he kept on.  Dad and Hunter got down safely and Hunter stopped at the end of the strip long enough for Dad to get out and run to the woods.  The ferry pilot wouldn't shut his mouth and was unofficially declared insane and sent back to California quickly for a new plane.

The book has a picture of Dad and Hunter in the F4U at the Confederate Airforce simulating how they looked in the fighter on Pelilieu.

Dad made an ice-cream churn out of a fuel tank that was churned by a propeller on the front.  He would fill it with milk/cream, eggs and sugar and attach it to a plane that had repairs done.  They would then send the plane to high altitude to put hours on the engine before sending it into combat.  They had lots of ice-cream and used it for trade as well as their own pleasure.  Because there wasn't anywhere to store it, it had to be eaten when the plane landed.  You could always tell that some was being made because Dad's area would have a long line of guys, from all over the airport, standing around in a long line, holding spoons and canteen cups and waiting for the plane. 

[Phorester]

Interesting tidbits of wartime life, Tom!  There always seems to be down time even in war where things like the ice cream maker have time to evolve and flourish.  I'm intrigued when the most innocent of things, like 2 pilots in the same plane, wind up being a goodadventure.

Also interesting that some of those guys wound up together in the same town years after the war.  I like to talk with older people.  You learn a lot more about the things you read about in history books that they actually lived through.