Mechanic help please, second act.

Woodchuck53 · October 24, 2009, 04:00:58 AM

I was inspired to ask after reading the first mechanic help post. Found, tested bought and brought home a 4000# TCM fork lift this hitch home. When I tested it out asides form no brakes it started right up and the mast is still in great shape. When I picked it up a week later the owner was not there as agreed so I paid the lady and started it up. It had a pronounced miss but I took this to be being left out in this Louisiana monson season we are having. Unloaded it at the shop that night and it hasn't run much less coughed since.

Now I did all the regular things. Checked for moisture in the dist. verified I had 12 volts to the coil and down to the dist. Double checked the safety switches and checked the points. No fire at the dist. at all. Just for grins and giggles checked the cap for cracks and it's fine. Took the coil off the mill engine and still no deal. Now that I am at work and can't throw any thing at it I did not change the condenser. Am I missing something else guys? I would really like to prove to the book keeper that it was a good purchase. Any ideas from the pack will be welcome. Thanks Chuck

IMERC · October 24, 2009, 04:35:35 AM

chek the spark gap and for fouled plugs...

look to see if a spark wire is wet/loose ...

Woodchuck53 · October 24, 2009, 04:51:33 AM

Morning IMERC, I pulled the plugs and cleaned them but I have to say they were a only a little dusty, set the gap on all four to match #1 about the thickness of a papermatch book cover. Also the coil off the mill had a resistor down stream of it to the dist. so I left it in the circuit. The primary wire is off the mill also with know luck. Checked the wire crimp termiinals but they were all fine. That being said the safety buttons on the forward and reverse were froze and even though it ran like this earlier I went ahead and bypassed them till I can replace them. Still know go. Not sure which way to go and I am at work so I can't fiddle with any. Thanks.

IMERC · October 24, 2009, 05:02:35 AM

it's morning...
and right back atcha...

I'd be looking for an anemic spark...

what color is the spark???
you got a pickup coil in that thing???
spark advance??? retarder???

Woodchuck53 · October 24, 2009, 05:17:48 AM

It has no spark, I even got brave enough to hold the lead going down to the dist. No bite at all. Not sure what a pick up coil is. This a fairly old machine too.

IMERC · October 24, 2009, 05:42:20 AM

how old and what motor???

Woodchuck53 · October 24, 2009, 05:47:41 AM

The guy had no idea of age but the motor is a Nissan. If I had to guess comparing with other models and brands I would guess something from the 80's

IMERC · October 24, 2009, 05:56:08 AM

asperated???
Cylinders???

12V to the coil???
is the coil primary putting out???

scsmith42 · October 24, 2009, 07:00:51 AM

I'll jump in too, but I'm going to be away from e-mail for a few hours and not able to respond back quickly...

The first thing to do is to run a "hot wire" from the battery to the positive side of the coil, and see if it starts. If it does, don't leave it running too long as you will fry the points from the higher voltage. IF it runs, then track down your wiring from the key to the coil. Some equipment has safety switches - ie is the gear selector in neutral or the parking brake engaged, etc.

The second area to check is the wire from the negative side of the coil to the distributor. Make sure that it is not shorted out anywhere. No spark could also be a bad condenser, as that could ground out the coil.

Third, check to make sure that the coil wire (to the center of the distributor cap) is well seated on each end.

Good luck.

Scott

pineywoods · October 24, 2009, 09:42:04 AM

Pop the cap off the distributor and check the point gap. These old motors had a habit of wearing off the rubbing block on the points enuff that the points didn't open. Another possible-The camshaft is driven by a chain that has a tensioner that works off oil pressure. On startup, there's no oil pressure, sometimes the chain is loose enough to jump a tooth or 2. Messes up the valve timing, and also the ignition timing, the distributor runs off the camshaft.

Woodchuck53 · October 24, 2009, 09:38:10 PM

Hey guys just got back on line
Scott, checked all mentioned leads and have 12 volts to them, now did not go direct from bat. to coil. Also will be receiving a tune up kit I ordered and will change the condenser as soon as I get up Thursday morning after getting back home.
Pineywoods, the points are opening and closing alright and I have cleaned and reset the gap. The cap had a little corrosion that I chipped off with my pocket knife and emery clothed real well. The engine is an inline 4 cyl. Nissan so no chain to worry about. Found 2 safety switches froze and went ahead and jumped out even though it had started in present position just fine. I know it will be something simple( rymes with stupid) but so for haven't found it. Thanks for the imput. Chuck

isawlogs · October 24, 2009, 10:46:14 PM

I had a simular episode with my Bombardier Sw this summer . I got stuck witht he tractor and got the Sw out for a rescue mission. That went well , took off with it and the 9,500lbs with a few trees to bring back and it stopped dead in its tracks .... :'(
I checked every thing , I had fire up to the distributor but none at the plugs :P Cleaned every thing , took the wires off , cleaned every thing up , connections , inside the distributor Still had no spark at the plugs. I ended up geting a new distributor cap and rotor , put that on and it fired up and got the wood home . ( two months later ) :D

Chico · October 24, 2009, 11:35:44 PM

It still has either a timng chain belt or gears it has to have something to keep the crank cam and dist in time it sounds more like a bad coil or condenser or poss a bad ground and the points are shorting out Doas one guy said run a wire from the pos side of the batt and the ground to the dist base see if there is fire thru the points if there is chk the rotor button then the cap then the wires You won't hurt it running it with 12 volts as if it has a carb it has no ecm to worry about
Chico

Woodchuck53 · October 25, 2009, 01:09:56 AM

Yes Chico, it does have a gear train and I'm thinking I would have heard a back fire if this was leading up to that. The fact that I parked it the night before and then it would not fire the next morning leads me to believe the timing is probably still good.

Not home to try all this but my game plan thus for is to install the tune up kit and have a set of Champions on hand. I will try the 12 volts straight to the dist. and check the rotor cap again for cracks. The rotor cleaned up good and am not sure this will be in the kit I ordered last week

I will also buy a full set of four leads and coil wire when I hit the beach. From that maybe i'll get it going. Also ordered a set of metric lugs for the left drive side as the owner ruined the last set. Had to put fluid in the master cyl. so maybe that is all that is wrong with the brakes. Build me a exhuast pipe and should be ready to go. Thanks for the advice guys. I really enjoy being here. Chuck

Ironwood · October 25, 2009, 09:08:23 PM

I have had to replace coils every year or so on my Continentals, I would just start buying ignition parts until all is new. Most of the stuff is cheap, except perhaps the distributor if it has those funky horizontal plug wire exits to clear the bottom of the seat pan. Sometimes i have had multiple issues giving me headaches, so everything fresh can make some sense when time is money. Good news is, once you getter going she should be a great lift.

Ironwood

Woodchuck53 · October 25, 2009, 09:27:22 PM

Evening Ironwood, yeah I guess posting here is letting me run various things by you guys because it is frustrating when you need to have a machine up and running soonest. I think the game plan I have now is about as for as I can go. It's really killing me to be at work and not able to try some of these ideas. But to support my hobbies I have to work. My older brother rotates in from Africa during my next trip home so if all else fails all he will have to do is walk by it and of course it will start. His stuff is left out in the hay field for weeks on end and always runs while I have shed space and keep my stuff up and have heck with the old electrical systems. Well got to go a wireline seal just turned loose. have a good one.

Ironwood · October 25, 2009, 10:30:56 PM

Sounds like oil/gas rig work, We have a Scouting family that Dad is a Safety Officer for 8 platforms off the Angolan coast. Talk about rough time of it. He has 2 young kids, that would be hard. He is gone in 4-6 week intervals.

Be careful.

Ironwood

Woodchuck53 · November 19, 2009, 07:38:48 AM

Well thanks to all that offered advise on the firing problem. I bought a 12 volt condenser on the way home and installed it the next morning along with a new set of plugs. Well she fired right up and ran pretty smooth. Tweaked the dist. a little and it leveled out. So thanks again guys. There used to be a saying from old mechanic's I have now learned that you change the condenser everytime you change the points and plugs. Thanks again. Chuck

woodpeckerlips · November 19, 2009, 08:15:58 AM

Remove your distrib cap and button. Small cover plate under and look at the points. Could be the points stuck open. Could be corroded up between contacts. Loose wire,broken wire? If your getting voltage in this is where you have to get spark out to the plug wires.

Woodchuck53 · November 19, 2009, 05:13:05 PM

Afternoon Woodpecker, I have it running good now. I was just letting the pack know what I found in case some one else encountered this. It was really frustrating to be at work and not able to keep at it so I needed some extra advice. I changed the points earlier and checked all the wires and still did not have the fire. But it is running now and the book keeper is happy so that's over half the battle. Ya'll have a good safe day. Chuck

stonebroke · November 19, 2009, 05:15:44 PM

You should be old enough to remember when changing points to always change the condenser, also look at the cap and rotor.

Stonebroke

Woodchuck53 · December 17, 2009, 08:09:08 PM

Well I still enjoy the Forum and thought I would up date the pack. As I said earlier I have relearned a few things. (Diesel power will spoil you) The machine is running pretty good now but I have encountered a couple things. I still believe I made a great purchase but to date found that the radiator must of had pepper in it because I flushed it to put fresh prestone in and had water running out on my boot. Got down with a flash lite and looked thru the counter weight and found a perfect hole across three fin tubes where it looks like a fork might have slipped in there.
To the radiator shop I go. All fixed and painted pretty black and reinstalled. Water dripping from the water pump now. The book keeper is pacing.
Order a pump and go to work. Also another lug nut because could not salvage all five of the messed up ones.
Get back in and unbolt the 2 top bolts on the water pump and find the bottom long bolt is corroded/welded to the aluminum housing of the pump. It is now right after Thanksgiving and we have a little cold weather. Worried that I might fracture something if I get to ram bunctious so I tap gently and spray Air kroil to try and loosen it up. No luck.
As I am want to do from time to time I leave it along and get back on the garage siding and contemplate what's next. The next morning I decide they are not getting there core back and drill down along side the bolt. Now mind you the pump would rotate with the bolt about a quarter turn side to side but would not slip off. The Air kroil spray along with a steady pressure from my ratchet while gently prying with a flat bar finally moved it off the bolt. Job well done. Nothing broke. Determine from the old one how the backing plate goes on and use the right gaskets for this model and I am in business. Top it off and crank it up.
Now mind you I have run it a total of 10 or 15 minutes by the hour meter. The engine compartment felt a little radiant hot so I shut it off and went and got my temp. gun. Found it a tad hot. Drained it down a little and pulled the thermostat out and took it to the house. Put it in a boiler of water along with a 250 degree thermometer. At 160 no dice at 180 same thing at 200 I thru it away and bolted the neck back on. It runs good and cool and even sounds a little better (I think)
The mechanical pump is still on the block to cover the oil hole up an figured one day I would remove it and plate it over. But I think the electric that someone added to it is feeding to much gas to it causing some flooding. So I ordered the original pump to put back on it.
And finally after checking the angle with a protractor I had a muffler shop bend me a 2"x 24" pc. of tail pipe, put a flare on one end for the donut and I now have the makings of a do it your self red neck exhaust system. Almost there.
Hope you guys have had as much fun reading this as I have trouble shooting and fixing this thing. I'm still under $1800.00 dollars for the 4000 lb. machine and tested it this hitch with 2 pallets of red brick across muddy ground, the wife is happy I have brakes on it and has even said she would help clean it up this spring and paint it so there you go.
All in all I have had a blast. Thank you guys for the help and encouragement, I hope ya'll had a great holiday past and an even better one coming and hope to read more of your good times soon. Safe sawing, Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year. Chuck