Hey all,
Im looking to upgrade my Woodland 126 with a set of cooks rollers. Im trying to see how other owners have upgraded their mills with these but my searches in this forum as well as on the google machine have only shown the same model built in other years that are not assembled the same way as mine. The ones other members have done and posted photos I could find are not built the same way mine is. Mine built in 2014 does not have adjustable cutting width and the current guides are mounted to the mill on a 1" shaft with single set screw off a vertical welded steel tube. Anyone have any experience with installing cooks guides on this model and type? Im fully capable of welding up any brackets needed but would like some suggestions or inspiration on what already works rather than starting to cut parts off the saw in order to fabricate my own jig. Thanks, Danny
DannyLand Woodland has new guides with rollers for the 126 Ijust got a set and like them thy are not adjustable my mill is a 2013 good luck on the hunt
See any improvement Goose?
I installed Cooks guides on my self built mill. Not up to picture posting. I took about an 8" long piece of 1" square solid steel drilled and tapped a 5/8" hole in one end for a bolt to fasten the guide. I drilled and tapped two holes for 5/16" bolts about 5" apart on the top of the bar. The bar fits inside a piece of square tube with two slots about 1" long on top for the two bolts. Between the two bolt slots is a tapped hole in the square tube for a 5/16" bolt. The solid bar can move around inside the square tube. The three 5/16" bolts give me adjustment in and out with the slots and up and down as the center bolts locks the two in the slot. You can level or pitch the guide by manipulating the three screws. It has worked well for me, hope you can understand what I'am saying. Frank C.
Thanks for the replies. I went to the Woodland website and called them direct to talk to their service department but they dont offer any proper roller guides. The ones they offer now are still the ones I have on my saw. Ive been doing alright with the standard blocks but they dont offer enough support on the blade to help reduce wavy cuts when the blade starts to dull. I know I should just change the blade when it happens but I usually dont feel the cuts slowing down enough to realize the blade is dull until I draw the saw back across the cant and see the gap fluctuating between the blade and the last cut surface. If I can help reduce that just a fraction it would save me on a few bad cuts and loosing material. It also seems to be a fairly popular upgrade to the saws on the forum. My rear bearings are only lasting about 40 hours of cutting time and at $40 plush shipping for two sets, it wont take long for the cooks to pay for themselves. Ive been keeping an eye on all my adjustments and have followed the manufacturers instructions on blade adjustment 100%. I dont run the mill as often as I would hope so I am sure to oil the bearings before leaving it for the night to prolong their lifespan. Even then, the sound like they are packed in sand in a short amount of time.
Looking at what cooks has to offer, I think I can just cut the existing down posts off and weld on cooks guide tubes in place. I can manage all the welding, drilling and tapping to make my own, but for the extra $20 per guide for the adjustment tube, I'll save myself the labor and just buy them complete. I can make $40 faster than I could cut, weld, drill and tap to make them. Everyone seems to love them so I think its the right direction for me to go in. I'll take any other advice people are throwing my way. Thanks
It sounds to me like you have a good plan already. I have nothing else to add. :)
Home made mill...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC02474~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1475128596)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC02475.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1475128705)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC02476~1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1475128768)
Quote from: fishfighter on September 28, 2016, 06:33:53 PM
See any improvement Goose?
I have olny had them a short time but so far I like them
OP, as far as replacement guide bearing. I been buying them local thru a alternator shop. They are alternator bearing that have been lasting a lot longer. Costing me $20 a set.
Yes, you are right about dull blades. I try to put it to the limit on them. And yes, that wavy cut is sure there even though the blade is still cutting real good. :( Also, if the drive belt starts to get loose, the waves start to show. :(
Thanks Goose. Keep in mine to post up as you get time on them. Got any pictures of them? Do you adjust them to were they put a down pressure on the blade?
Thanks Kbeitz, that photo is very helpful. The vertical height adjustment is something I hadnt thought about but should have. I was planning on just trying to get the 1/4" down pressure by measurement and welding it solid, having the adjustment makes it so much easier. Your setup looks similar enough to what I have and can be done with just trimming the height of my existing down tubes. Makes it a lot easier to change seeing I dont have to weld anything to the saw, my welder is just heavy enough that I could move it out there to do the work but its a real pain to do so.
Fishfighter, you mentioned the drive belt tension having an affect on the cut quality? Would that be a result of varying blade speed or a strange translation of belt vibration into the blade? I just noticed the belt slip twice the last time I was sawing but just wrote it off as a significant bind on the blade from a knotty and sticky piece of wood. I'll check that today. Ill also look into the alternator bearings. Theres a shop around here that repairs electric motors and alternators, I'll inquire with them. I know my drive wheel bearings will need replacement in the near future and would rather buy a higher quality set. I was just looking on McMaster Carr at their bearing offerings and like the looks of their sealed stainless steel ones. Pricey but if they last 4 times as long or more, its worth it.
Love having this forum, Ive been reading a lot of posts and picking up knowledge and experience, and now some solid advice. Thanks again.
Yes on the loose belt slipping and loosing speed.
I am trying not to be critical but the pictures that Kb posted above of his blade guides may be fine for a hobby sawmill but with no way to adjust horizontal or vertical tilt, production sawing would be compromised.
Quote from: Magicman on September 29, 2016, 08:38:37 AM
I am trying not to be critical but the pictures that Kb posted above of his blade guides may be fine for a hobby sawmill but with no way to adjust horizontal or vertical tilt, production sawing would be compromised.
Yup, a few degrees of tilt adjustment, both horizontal and vertical will be needed, especially after the roller wears off cone shaped and the flange wears.
KB,all he has to do,is get on that horizontal flange with big crescent wrench and bend it.....
I'm running a Mighty Mite and didn't like the stock guides. When I started getting serious about tuning up the mill, one of the first things I did was upgrade to the Cooks guides. The mount tubes went on with little fabrication and the guides stay where they are set and run WAYYY better than the stock guides ever did. I really like the way they press down slightly on the band. These days the blade runs very true until it gets to that 1st wavy cut. Then I change the blade.
I'm very happy with this mod.
It would be very easy to put in a set screw on the back side of the tubing
to adjust horizontal or vertical tilt. I haven't had the need to do that but I
will if needed to be. A big adjustable would probably do it but I wont go
that route.
QuoteI really like the way they press down slightly on the band.
You actually need ΒΌ" of down pressure.
Quote from: DannyLand on September 28, 2016, 08:48:48 AM
Hey all,
Im looking to upgrade my Woodland 126 with a set of cooks rollers. Im trying to see how other owners have upgraded their mills with these but my searches in this forum as well as on the google machine have only shown the same model built in other years that are not assembled the same way as mine. The ones other members have done and posted photos I could find are not built the same way mine is. Mine built in 2014 does not have adjustable cutting width and the current guides are mounted to the mill on a 1" shaft with single set screw off a vertical welded steel tube. Anyone have any experience with installing cooks guides on this model and type? Im fully capable of welding up any brackets needed but would like some suggestions or inspiration on what already works rather than starting to cut parts off the saw in order to fabricate my own jig. Thanks, Danny
I have a Woodland Mills HM126 also. Please post updates and pictures if you ever get it figured out. I'd love to modify mine also.
Why did I have to come across this thread? Made me look at the Crooks rollers. When I did I ran across the AC-36. Watched the demo video. Wow, what an impressive mill. When I win the lottery I'm buying one of those.
Dannyland, did you ever get them Cooks guides installed on your Woodland 126 mill? If you did I would like to see how you mounted them. I bought a set of them and they showed up in the mailbox last night so am going to try to find some time to install them this weekend. It looks like I am going to have to cut off a couple inches of the tube that the old blocks are mounted to and make a reversed looking C out of 1 1/2" square tubing to get the roller in the correct location to ride on the band correctly. I have the same problems as you did, wavy cuts and bearings going out. Hopefully this will take care of the problems, also I am on my second drive belt because it was scrubbing one side of the belt off. Got to looking at it and when the old one got bad I thought it was just a cheap belt so I bought a good Gates belt installed it and after 30hrs it started doing the same. Well when I installed the new belt and tightened it up that one bolt that slides the engine to tighten the belt it doesn't pull the engine square so the clutch pulley wasn't aligned with the drive pulley so it started to scrub that side of the belt off again. So when you tighten your drive belt make sure the clutch pulley is running true to your drive pulley or you will just tear up your new belt.
Deere, when you add them, take some notes and of course pictures. ;D
DannyLand,
The setup that you are asking about was done a while back by member Harold Siefke. I talked with him in detail, and he shared all the info to make the swap. There is a thread on here about it with great pictures. You may PM him for info on it. I haven't seen him on here for a while, so a PM may take some time. Check on members tab at top and go to memberlist and look under H. Andy
Quote from: Deere80 on March 10, 2017, 09:03:33 AM
Dannyland, did you ever get them Cooks guides installed on your Woodland 126 mill? If you did I would like to see how you mounted them. I bought a set of them and they showed up in the mailbox last night so am going to try to find some time to install them this weekend. It looks like I am going to have to cut off a couple inches of the tube that the old blocks are mounted to and make a reversed looking C out of 1 1/2" square tubing to get the roller in the correct location to ride on the band correctly. I have the same problems as you did, wavy cuts and bearings going out. Hopefully this will take care of the problems, also I am on my second drive belt because it was scrubbing one side of the belt off. Got to looking at it and when the old one got bad I thought it was just a cheap belt so I bought a good Gates belt installed it and after 30hrs it started doing the same. Well when I installed the new belt and tightened it up that one bolt that slides the engine to tighten the belt it doesn't pull the engine square so the clutch pulley wasn't aligned with the drive pulley so it started to scrub that side of the belt off again. So when you tighten your drive belt make sure the clutch pulley is running true to your drive pulley or you will just tear up your new belt.
A while back I spoke to their tech support and he said when changing the belt to get the engine where it needs to be, straight, and tighten everything down and then put the belt on by walking it on. Works good by putting it on the small pulleys first then turn the wheel until it pops on.
Here is some info.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,63081.msg934949.html#msg934949
Here it is just tacked up, I finished welding it up and aligning them but haven't milled anything yet. It was -16 degrees this morning again so it might be a couple days before getting a chance to do any cutting.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42945/IMG_1915~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489411035)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42945/IMG_1916.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489411115)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42945/IMG_1917.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489411148)
Nice fabrication work... should function well for you! I am correct in reading that the main tube of the Cook's guides is 1.5"x 1/4" wall?
Deere, how much did you cut off the tubes that held the old guides?
On a side note. I see that on your new guides, that flat plate suppose to mount under the blade. ;D I'm sure you have them like that to just to fab up things. ;D
Rougespear, yes that is 1 1/2" tubing.
Fishfighter, I installed them the way Cook's instruction told me to. If you put that flat plate on bottom you would have no up/down adjustment to put down pressure on the blade, it would move the roller side to side instead of up and down.
Quote from: fishfighter on March 13, 2017, 11:21:57 AM
...that flat plate suppose to mount under the blade. ;D ...
No, it is not. That is a deflector to prevent a piece of bark or other object from getting between the blade and roller guide.
Cutting Edge, so I do have them mounted correctly?? I thought that plate was a deflector for flying debris because on the bottom there is tapped holes for there BC jaw(bottom control) I believe that is what BC stands for.
smiley_thumbsup
Well, thanks for correcting me. ;D So, Deere, how much did you cut?
I left 3 3/8" of the original tubing coming down and cut 2 pieces of 1 1/2" tubing 5" long. I hope it works out I will try to do some cutting this next weekend and give a report on the differences between the original design to the Cooks guides.
Thanks and keep us in the loop.
well I cut 2 logs last night and on the first one the left guide roller was not turning as fast as it should, it was like there was not enough down pressure on the blade. so instead of the 1/4" down pressure that they recommend I had to put 1/2" down pressure to make it turn properly. Then I releveled the head and started cutting again, it seem to cut nice but also I had just sharpened that blade. Then when I quit I touched the blade and rollers to see if they were warm and the left side one that I had to lower to make it contact more with the blade was a little warm. The blade was ice cold and right roller cold it was only 6 degrees out and windy so you could tell that the left roller was definitely creating heat. So why would that one be getting warm, I had greased them before I started and it doesn't feel like I got a bad bearing because it feels good. Only thing I can figure is I have to much down pressure and maybe it was so cold out that the grease was stiff enough that it was not letting the roller spin freely when I first started and have to put it back to the 1/4" down pressure as recommended from Cooks. Any ideas of why this would be getting warm?
My rollers are always warm/hot to the touch after cutting (WM rollers). I'm more concerned why you think the inboard roller is not turning at full speed... does it hang up when turning it by hand?
Because when I engaged the blade it was turning half the speed as the right one so I stopped and went to turn it and when you grabbed it by hand to turn it, it would just slip and not turn the blade with it so it wasn't making must contact with the blade.
Quote from: Deere80 on March 14, 2017, 08:33:26 AM
Any ideas of why this would be getting warm?
Sounds like your horizontal alignment (left/right) is incorrect and the blade is "scrubbing" the roller guide. Friction = Heat
You should only need 3/16"-1/4" max down pressure. Being as these bearings were greased AND it being cold outside, I believe this is what attributed to the roller not turning... I did the same thing several years ago and ruined a roller because it caused a flatspot. Since then I have only used quality sealed bearings. Even in single digit temps, the roller turns relatively freely.
Quote from: Deere80 on March 14, 2017, 11:49:55 AM
...when you grabbed it by hand to turn it, it would just slip and not turn the blade with it so it wasn't making must contact with the blade.
You want enough friction between the blade and the roller to offer enough tractive force to ensure the roller turns. Proper down pressure will do that. Remember, it is a "guide" not a drive roller. Yes, you will be able to turn it with your fingers, but you want enough pressure to ensure the roller spins with the blade while in operation. Cold thick grease will prevent this.
Cutting Edge I never thought about that with the roller might not be turned into the blade enough. I will have to check that out before I cut again before I wreck a brand new roller.
Keep us informed. I will be doing this upgrade in the near future. Just have to much going on now.
All members on this thread,
While cleaning the shop today, I found a box with these Cooks guides in it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30359/DSCN4251.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489876143)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30359/DSCN4252.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489876218)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30359/DSCN4253.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489876272)
I bought these to fit on my mill, but don't have my mill now. If anyone would like this set, I will ship them to you for a donation to the forum. Just PM me when it is done, and give me your shipping info. These will make those Woodland Mills cut really well. Thanks, Andy
Andy, I'm interested in them.
Andy, you have mail.
I have about ten hours of cutting with the new rollers and it was definitely worth installing them. It took a couple times adjusting them to where they need to be though. I am cutting ponderosa pine which is soft wood with very hard knots and with the old guides as soon as the band would get just a little dull you were getting waves. Now I can go at least twice as long with a band before I would get any waves.
That is good to know Deere.
What kind of a donation would you be looking for? $$$?? just out of curiosity 8)
Cutting Edge got them. :(