The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: music_boy on October 09, 2003, 07:24:04 PM

Title: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 09, 2003, 07:24:04 PM
 Thought about "newbie" for a moniker but don't want to be that forever. My interest is in building instruments. Guitars, Mandolins, and dulcimers. I live in Maryland, and want to use native woods to build. Processed native material for instruments is in short supply. So are custom sawyers. I'm a bit of a handyman and my proffesion puts me in close proximity to logs and a very reasonale price. After Isabelle hit, I decided to dive in. I'm so new, my saw hasn't been made yet. On backorder. I thought the Hudson model Oscar 18 will suit my needs.(for now)
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Minnesota_boy on October 09, 2003, 07:30:43 PM
Welcome to the forum, Music_boy.

What types of wood do you use in the instruments?  I currently have a standing order for any fiddleback maple I can find for use in custom made violins.  Only trouble is, in 4 years I haven't seen a one.  We have very little maple here that I get to look at.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: ohsoloco on October 09, 2003, 07:31:38 PM
Welcome to the forum, music_boy.  I bought my sawmill two years ago to obtain lumber for my furniture projects...now I just can't stop sawing  ;D
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 09, 2003, 07:56:26 PM
I'm looking to use native species. Maple, Cherry, Walnut, Elm, and Osage Orange. Top, or tone woods are a litle more difficult. Sitka, and Engleman are traditional. A guy that builds Dulcimers uses Catalpa. Interesting.  that's what experimenting is all about. Having a little trouble with my server since the hurricane.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Minnesota_boy on October 09, 2003, 08:11:39 PM
I was having a little trouble with my server tonight too, but she finally came home from her meeting.  :D

It sounds like you have a little better selection of woods to work with.  I wonder how those instruments would sound with a jack pine top?  :o
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2003, 08:12:31 PM
Welcome to the Forum, Music Boy.

A string instrument maker near here that is one of my customers uses Magnolia and sycamore along with a bunch of other local woods and even buys imported stuff sometimes.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: ronwood on October 09, 2003, 09:07:18 PM
Welcome to the forum. Hope you will enjoy your sawmill when you get it.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 10, 2003, 04:03:30 AM
There is one guy making dobros from oak.  I'm not too sure of the tone.  I've also seen another making guitars from koa.  That's a little rare in Maryland.

Iv'e seen ash and soft maple in electrice guitars.  Rosewood is typical for necks.

Usually those spruces are quarter sawn.  I imagine that you would be looking at quarter sawing for the other species.

You ought to take a tour of the Martin plant in Nazereth, PA.  I was through their sawmill many years ago.  Supposedly the most accurate mill in the US.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: woodhaven on October 10, 2003, 04:31:35 AM
What do you play? Do you just build.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: woodbeard on October 10, 2003, 05:28:44 AM
Hey, good to hear from another luthier. I build electric guitars and basses myself. Osage orange is very nice for fingerboards. I have been trying to focus on local woods too, but with electrics, it's a little easier. In fact, I built one a while back with a weathered oak barnwood top. Do you have any Cypress or atlantic white cedar in the area? Those might be good candidates for soundboard wood or at least worth a try. I made a mandolin once with a port orford cedar top and it sounded real nice.
Good luck,
George
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 10, 2003, 02:07:33 PM
I play guitar, 6 and 12 string. Play Bluegrass, folk, and have become interested in the Appalachia Mountain music. Has a haunting appeal. Some dulcimer players got me interested in it. I'm learning it isn't just"find a log, cut it, dry it," and your home free. I have some friends that build, but not saw, so I'm looking to trade wood for knowledge and a little shop time. They have some tools I don't that will make the building easier. Appreciate the info and warm welcome. Hopefully, I can post some pics later. Got to get the saw first.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 11, 2003, 06:04:06 PM
One thing that might be interesting to see is how the ring placement is on those better quality woods.  I'm betting that the rings are probably pretty tight.

If that's what it takes to make good music wood, that's the kind of logs I'd be looking for.   ;)
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 11, 2003, 06:24:41 PM
From what I 've read and seen, you are right on the money. Tight rings and quartersawn are what make the top, soundboard, an intregal part of the instrument. It is still more than that, as density plays a part here as well. Back and side woods can be quarter or flat sawn. It seems to be a preference amongts builders but I can say that flat sawn yeilds a more attractive grain. Quarter sawn produces a wood that steam bends easier and has zero end grain run-out. A dulcimer builder told me that book-matched pieces for tops and backs are better than solid tops because the sound is transmitted equaly. sorta makes sense because the wood is equal and identicle on each side, but a solid piece eliminates the whole bookmatch process. Any thoughts??
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on October 11, 2003, 06:31:00 PM
 I would donate a piece of true vertical sawn, very tight ring, Bald Cypress, if ya wanted to try it on something. What color shade would you like and what size??? I can saw it thin to book match too, if you preferred. It will be pretty wet, but, it air dries pretty quickly, about 3-4 months, to 12%.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Don P on October 11, 2003, 07:06:27 PM
This is a list of some of the old time and bluegrass going on around here. I listen to Blue Ridge Backroads from the Rex most friday evenings. The Galax Fiddlers Convention is one of the oldest, must be up to about the 70th year.

http://www.virginiablueridge.org/music.htm
http://www.blueridgeonline.com/musiclnk.htm
This is a good band if you ever get the chance to listen. Big sister took second in the fiddle competition at the mountain state fair this year.
http://www.dixiegrassband.com/pages/1/index.htm

There was one guy I worked with that had made a few instruments. He was always taking glue up stock out of the planer, holding it across the width between thumb and forefinger at one of the node points and tapping it, then listening for the tone and sustain. Slide your finger placement up and down and you'll find the sweet spot. Its pretty interesting to play with, shows the superiority of quartersawn in that use.  Almost all the woods we worked in had some nice sounding boards, I think playing with different species would open up all sorts of interesting overtones.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Bro. Noble on October 11, 2003, 07:17:46 PM
My brother plays about anything,  right now he's into 'hoe-down'  fiddeling.  All the tunes sound about the same to me,  but they sure got some fine names------"Poke the pigs foot a little further in the fire" for example.  Speaking of playing with different species,  I did that when Jeff visited :D

There is a big dulcimer maker in Mtn. View Ark.  where you can watch them work.  Seems like Arky said he supplies their q-sawn sycamore?
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 12, 2003, 08:02:56 AM
     In the "old days", the instrument makers selected their wood by "tapping" it. It is very interesting to listen to the differences. The best woods seem to have almost a ring to them. Like a bell. Some sound like when you tap a coffe cup or something close to it. They then would carve and trim and "tap tune " to get the sound they wanted.
     I'll try those Bluegrass sites. Bluegrass on the radio here is on PBR on Sundays. Thanks
     I'd love to have a piece of Cypress!!!! Just up the road here is the northern most stand of Bald Cypress in North Amer. It's a park. Always wanted to go  and get a log  but the fear of incarceration stops that. Bet they wouldn't let me have my guitar in Attica!! Kinda songs I'd be singin would be none to pleasent either. Anyway, Guitar tops are 20" tall by 17" across the lower bout finished. So, something larger by an inch or so would be great. I like the darker woods myself but I'll not be choosey. How do we get in touch? I certainly will pay for shipping!
Thanks all.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on October 12, 2003, 08:24:33 AM
  Check yer mailbox at the top of the page, music_boy
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2003, 01:42:18 PM
http://www.hivsearch.com/radio/?s=Bluegrass
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: LeeB on October 13, 2003, 12:33:16 AM
any thoughts on mullberry for a dulcimer? don't know a thing about them, but thought i would like to try and make one. LeeB
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 13, 2003, 06:57:49 AM
I have no experience with the Mullbery wood per se. It is in the same family with Osage Orange which is probably the most dense wood in N.A. If your Mulberry is anything close to that, I would say it will be fine. Choose a good tone wood for the top. In all my discussions with folks that delve in the philosophy of woods for instruments, the one I ascribe to is this, "If it sounds good to you, then it is fine." That is not to say that there are woods that we know to be useless for instruments. You wouldn't want to build a dulcimer outa Balsa wood. Go for it aand let me know how it sounds. We have Hackberry berry here on the east coast. Same family. Most folks here consider it a junk tree. Good for Me!
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: LeeB on October 13, 2003, 06:21:29 PM
What part wood you use hackberry for? got plenty of that around here also. LeeB ???
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 14, 2003, 06:23:17 PM
I'm guessin it's all the same. The heartwood is the nicest on Hacberry hear. Does not get to be a very large tree. Some of the old fence rows have some good size ones. Waiting for one to blow over.
rick
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: LeeB on October 14, 2003, 09:50:58 PM
they blow over pretty often. not much of a root system. don't let it set too long. not at all rot resistant and prone to blue stain. a member of the elm family. likes to warp and twist. LeeB
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: woodmills1 on October 15, 2003, 05:17:19 AM
Had a new customer here yesterday who wanted and bought all of the curly we could find in one of my stacks of maple. He asked me to set aside any curly that I locate and he will buy it.  He uses it for the backs of the mandolins he makes and also for the necks of the dobros he produces.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: whitepe on October 15, 2003, 05:58:12 AM
Welcome Music_Boy,
You won't be sorry about buying your sawmill.
Here's a picture of Jeff B playing a Moore Guitar
when he stopped at our place in Peoria on his
way back to Michigan from the show in St. Charles,
MO.  The guitar was made by Jim Moore, a late co-worker
of my wife's here at CAT.  Unfortunately, Jim passed
away in 1993 and made about 10 guitars in his lifetime.
The guitar that Becky (my wife) has is the only one
that Jim ever sold to someone outside of his family.
There is a fellow named Bob Moore (no relation to Jim)
who works at our local Woodcraft store and he makes
musical instruments as well.


(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Jeff_Guitar.jpg)







Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 15, 2003, 03:07:07 PM
I recently saw a dulcimer that was made from sassafras.  I guess you can use just about anything.
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Den Socling on October 15, 2003, 05:54:31 PM
Noble,

 "Speaking of playing with different species,  I did that when Jeff visited "

You're never going to get out of that pumpkin!  :D
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: Bro. Noble on October 15, 2003, 06:15:12 PM
Den,

Oh,  those little slips-of-the-tongue that later cause us so much grief :-X  

I keep reminding myself that he did return Don Staples to his proper position,  so maybe someday he will show me some kindness :-/

If not,  I'll have a talk with Wildflower and she'll give him a good thumping :D
Title: Re: WOOD FOR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
Post by: music_boy on October 15, 2003, 06:26:01 PM
whitepe
      Thankyou for your words of encouragement. Even though my mill is not too expensive, it is a big jump into the instrument building arena. The guitar pictured looks nice and a great legacy. I hope to do as well.      
     I have some small pieces of Sassafras. It is a pretty wood. Kinda greyish\brown(if that makes sense) with nice grain. Still retains some of it's aromatic properties too. Might be a candidate for a top.
Rick