Need info on a Corley#4

ElectricAl · October 07, 2003, 08:06:52 PM

There is an auction oct 18th just 20 miles north of us. The sawmill and all the junk around it is up for grabs.

The sawmill is a Corley # 4 with a new 56" Simonds and a 30" top saw. Also a 75hp electric motor.

Not sure on the age. Thought I would get some input before I go for a drive ;D

I ran a Crab sawmill for about 15 minutes.
But then the owner told me that saw had killed 4 people over the years :'(I kinda blocked out the info I picked up that day :-/.

Looking for items to inspect, and how to tell standard play from slop ;)

If it goes cheap it might make a nice piece of "Yard Art"

I could bum a John Deere A from the neighbor and hook a flat belt to it :D

Jeff · October 07, 2003, 08:19:47 PM

As far as I am concerned any play in a mill is slop.

D._Frederick · October 07, 2003, 08:24:56 PM

Al,
A John Deere A will not provide enough power. Is the mill still wood or has it been re-built with steel? Check the set-works to see that it is all there, if it is on the carriage check to see if it works. Check to see if the arbor bearing will turn. Has the motor been under cover, check for mice damage. Do you have a 200 amp, 220 volt, 3 phase?

ElectricAl · October 07, 2003, 08:56:26 PM

D,

I agree, a 12hp A won't hardly cut the cheese :D

The mill is under cover and has been used semi regular for years. We have kiln dried wood from the saw. Thick and thin, but that may be correctable.

We don't have clean three phase so we would go to PTO off a 150hp JD.

We would use it to open up big logs.

Just exploring our options ;)

Jeff, around here some of the saws are + or - 1/2" in 8' , and to them it's "Dead Nuts On"

D._Frederick · October 08, 2003, 01:09:20 PM

Al,
Its all set-up with a circle mill to have them saw correctly, they need to be level, square, and then aligned with the right amount of lead. The blade has to be hammered to the rpm it is to be used at.

Jeff · October 08, 2003, 02:25:24 PM

Al our customers start yakking if we are 1/16 off. Thats for thickness and uniformity. Thats entirely achievable on a circle saw that is set up and maintained properly.

Ron Wenrich · October 08, 2003, 02:57:55 PM

Thick and thin can come from lots of places. Setworks is a good start. Especially if the paws don't hold.

Truck bearings are another place. Give the carriage a good push sideways and see if it moves.

You can also have movement in the arbor. Roller or babbit bearing?

Maybe you can make squares from your logs on the circle mill and resaw on the Mizer.

D._Frederick · October 08, 2003, 05:09:41 PM

Ron,
If the arbor is moving, you have a saw that will over heat, it is being held by the guide at the rim and distorted at the hub. I don't know if you could saw under this condition.

ElectricAl · October 08, 2003, 06:29:33 PM

The lumber we Kiln dried off the saw I would call "miscut"

7/8", 1", 1 1/8" + -- :

I think this is an index problem.

Does the Corley have the little pins that go in a thousand different holes?

The 56" blade is new, within the last 60 days.

We had a dude haul in a 40" x 6' bur oak with one side sawn on circular saw ???

Apperently the log rolled, moved, jumped, whatever and broke the old blade at the hub

Now either the sawyer was too lazy to dog the log or the dogs have problems.

So what is a new 56" Simonds worth?

I'm going to slide up there Fri or Sat.

Thanks for the pointers

ElectricAl

Ron Wenrich · October 08, 2003, 06:30:40 PM

I was thinking more on the lines of end play in the arbor. Wouldn't a heated saw cause thick and thin lumber?

The last new Simonds I bought was around $2000.

ElectricAl · October 08, 2003, 06:45:26 PM

Ron,

A couple of brothers down the road saw on a meadows #2. When they saw Ash they heat up the blade and it will "lay down" (their words). I'm not sure if it leans in or out, but you can hear it happening. Sawyer has a garden hose to cool the blade. Now I have been told to never spray a hot blade by another sawyer.

I figure if Meadows wanted their blade cooled by water they would add a LubeMizer from WoodMizer :D

mitch · October 09, 2003, 06:18:24 AM

I would never ever "spray a hot saw with cold water"....I guess sawyers learn what works for them. My old pre WWII circular mill will saw 18" boards of white ash without any problems.

Ron Wenrich · October 09, 2003, 02:57:00 PM

There was a discussion on another board that said that you should be running water on a saw if you are having heating problems. I saw one guy who ran a garden hose on his saw up in Canada.

I've never run water on a saw or seen it any other place. To cool a hot saw, back off the saw guides and let it cool. The only place you should put water is to wet down the logs. Wet logs will saw better than dry logs.

There could be several reasons that they get heat from sawing ash. My guess is they get it on other species as well, but ash gets that buildup on the saw.

Saw maintenance is the biggest headache in circle mills. When you get that down, then things fall in to place real well.

beenthere · October 09, 2003, 04:12:07 PM

I wouldn't consider myself a circular saw expert, but have heard discussions (hunted several years with one saw expert) about too many teeth in a circular saw blade taking too small a bite, thus causing sawdust (chips) to spill out of the gullets between the saw blade and the wood, causing the blade to heat. The heating in turn causes the rim of the blade to expand and then going unstable into a sin wave, then 'laying over' into the log and breaking, and/or getting firmly implanted in the wood on the carriage side (sometimes lodging in the steel carriage bunks). One cure they talked about for some mills sawing some species (maybe ash is one ??) is to remove every other tooth on the saw, making the remaining teeth take bigger bites for the rpm/feed rate, and keeping the gullet full of good size chips that do not spill onto the sides of the saw blade. The blade runs cooler, and remains stable. I heard many stories where some saw-rim heating problems were cured with this method of removing teeth. It runs against the grain of those who think more teeth are better in a saw blade.

One of those guys involved in the discussions I overheard was Stan Lunstrum, who wrote the "Small Sawmills" handbook. I think Inspector Woody received one of those handbooks from the Forest Products Lab in Madison.

D._Frederick · October 09, 2003, 05:00:59 PM

The problem is too many teeth, not enough horse power. The old timers had a "rule of thumb", of about 2 to 3 hp per tooth, if I remember correctly.

Ron Wenrich · October 09, 2003, 05:14:03 PM

I just had a discussion with a saw doctor on saw speed. We're running 700 RPM. The saw doc feels that the maximum speed should be 600 RPM. We're running a 46 tooth, B pattern, 6/8 saw and 150 hp electric.

His thinking is that by running at a lower RPM, but using the same feed rate, will give a larger chip and less problems with gine dust spilling out of the gullet. We're still thinking about it, but it does make sense. He doesn't think production will be effected.

I agree, power problems are usually the reason for reducing every other tooth.

ElectricAl · October 09, 2003, 08:25:59 PM

1946 Corley # 4, 4 headblock, 56" main and 30" top saw.

Only two of the Head blocks had dogs ??? , all the other pieces are missing :(

The carriage is in pretty rough shape. Bent, broken wheel, missing parts.

The index mechanism is in bad shape too, farmer weld all over, and the mount bolts are jiggling in egg shaped holes.

The paw that stopped against the stop pin was dished out. All the shiney stuff is farmer weld :D

The Mandrel shaft rides in new pillow block bearings. The blade ran true and did not wobble. I watched them saw 10 cottonwood logs. The top saw rides on babbit still. The carriage drive is flat belt. The carriage would creep backwards if the stick was let go of.

Top saw is powered by a 15hp. It really threw fiber all over the off bearer. :D

The sawyer has run the saw for the last 10 years and is going to bid up to $4000. The owner has refused to lease the business and just wants the money from the sale.

It may take 3 days to get the sawmill out of the building and on a trailer.

I think I'm going to pass ;)

Might have been a slick saw 40 years ago.

mitch · October 10, 2003, 06:13:19 AM

ElectricAl,
Thanks for posting the images of the old Corley....it just needs a little TLC. The Piper's Saw Shop has new dog assemblies
http://www.piperssawshop.com/Catalog1/Catalog1/Dog_Assembly.htm

If you purchase the saw I would recommend a guard over the top saw like the one I built for mine
http://shagbarkfarms.com/TopSaw/DCP00310.JPG

Good luck

D._Frederick · October 10, 2003, 09:04:53 AM

I always like to look at the pictures of Mitch's mill with the shiny saw blades, it only takes a couple minutes to brush a little oil on them to keep them that way. They saw better to, being bright.

woodhaven · October 10, 2003, 06:20:38 PM

Gotta watch that blade oiling though.
The blade I have on the mill now cut a guy half into once. They used to keep a 5 gallon bucket of oil with a paint brush in it and when the blade would get hot or they were shutting down for the day they dipped the brush in the oil and wipped the blade while spinning. One day a guy reached around to wipe the carriage side of the balde not knowing his nee had hit the carriage lever. He never saw the carriage coming it just took him like a log and ran him through the saw cutting him in half at waist height.

DanG · October 10, 2003, 08:10:25 PM

Well, that ain't a very happy thought.

Safety is most always something you have to think about in advance. Whoever laid out the mill and set the practices should have put guards in place to prevent that. 'Course, I'm using hind-sight to discern that bit of wisdom, and the guy I'm talkin' about didn't have that advantage. :-/

THINK, DanGit!

woodhaven · October 11, 2003, 04:50:19 AM

You got to consider this was over 50 years ago. Back before safty and guards were not invented. The only safty factor in those days was to stay out of the kicking range of the mule.

D._Frederick · October 11, 2003, 01:55:30 PM

The circle mills with 50-60 inches of metal rotating at 4-6 hundred rpm has always have been bad news for safety. A sawyer in are area had a slap thrown back that crushed his leg which later was cut-off. Safety was the reason I sold the No.2 American that my dad had. The liability was too great to hire help and one person has a hard time sawing by yourself.