I'm getting ready to finish off the interior of my new shop. It's 42'x60' in size with 10' sides walls that use a modified scissor truss that is just a hair over 11' in the center. I just got back from the big box store and they have nothing but plain old fluorescents that are 6' long. I would like to use fluorescents but have not been able to find anyone local that sells them. Anyone have some ideas of what to use and whether fluoros' are better or worse for what we want to do with it.
Check out page 2 of General Woodworking and there is already a thread on this topic started by Dave Shepard. Its about halfway down the page. Might be some useful info there.
Go to a real electrical outfitters store like Kirby/Risk or All Phase and ask them about high output flourescents. The HOs are instant on in all weather and are 8' long. Great lights. I have them in my 30x90 workshop and 30x70 barn. Both have 12' ceilings.
When your eyes are as young as ours you don't want to skimp on the lighting :D
Norm: Ditto Onewithwood's recommendation. I have high output 8' flourescent fixtures in the barn, horse run-in shed, and one fixture in the woodshop. The amount of light that they output is fantastic. Instant on even when it's below freezing too. The barn has 13' ceilings, and I have 12 fixtures installed in a 30 x 40 area.
Typically bulbs are available for them from 90 - 120 watts. The fixtures sell for around 45 - 49 bucks at Lowes.
The one thing to keep in mind about them is that you're not supposed to mount them flush to a ceiling (due to the heat from the ballast).
Scott
Norm , I use 4' fixtures with daylight ultra bulbs 5000K or better or i don't buy the bulb. The daylight bulb makes a more natural brighter light . I also have been using the CFscrewin bulbs in small lamps like on the drill press ,lathe ,and bridgeport. These are harder to find in 5000K ,so I buy a bunch when I find them . They also make good lamps for trouble lights . The darn things take a beating and keep on lighting . They will outlast a rough service bulb ten fold or more.
There has to be a lighting and or electric store in the big towns around you. Most big box lamp fixture are garbage from the C H Ina company.
We had three more banks of 8' flourescents installed in the mill this summer. I will try to remember to see what they are. The come right on in the cold, but do get brighter after about a minute. They are definately some kind of high output cold start lights. Very nice this time of year, as I often saw well into the evening.
Dave
Well thank you folks. You'd think there would be a commercial lighting store in Iowa but finding it is the trick. On the HO fluorescents what kind of spacing are you using? I was thinking using 5 across and then 5 banks the length of the building. Is this what you guys are using?
Don thanks for the tip, I'm going to see if I can find that style too.
Here's my take on how many lighting fixtures you need....
I have done a shop where it came out at 1 watt per square foot. I thought it was plenty bright enough.
Some people though prefer to figure it at two watts per square foot. To me that is overkill.
Norm, I have some buildings with 1 watt per square foot of lighting, and some with 2 watts per square foot. The buildings with the higher wattage are those that do not have reflective surfaces on the walls, floors and ceilings, and the extra wattage really helps a lot. I have these buildings set up on two banks of lights, and I can turn on either 1 or 2 watts per square foot.
For areas where you'll be working frequently and want a lot of light, I'd suggest 2 watts per square foot. For the storage areas, or areas where you need lighting but not for detailed work, perhaps multiple banks of lights that allow you to increase lighting as needed, starting around 1 watt per sq. ft.
Scott
Thanks again folks, I found what I think is the right kind at Grainger.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4LB81
Does this look like the kind you guys are talking about?
Those are the one I used, I think.
I arranged my lights in banks starting 4' from the wall and then spaced 8' apart. I ran a row 4' out from the back wall where I have work stations. Kinda like this:
________ ________ ________ ________
| | | |
| | | | . . . . out to end wall
| | | |
| | | |
It helps to have lights off to each side of a work station located between the long runs rather than overhead to eliminate shadows.
Quote from: Norm on November 27, 2007, 11:28:38 AM
Thanks again folks, I found what I think is the right kind at Grainger.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4LB81
Does this look like the kind you guys are talking about?
Grainger has so many of those 8 foot F96T12HO fixtures that it is hard to decide. So yes, that is one style, but that one is for 277 volts. ???
If you need fixtures to start in cold weather, the HO is a good choice. However they only come in the T12 style which is the larger diameter tube and they are trying to discontinue the T12 tubes in all sizes because they contain too much mercury. The T8 are now the normal size in all but the HO (high output) and they apparently have not come up with a T8 tube for HO fixtures.
The problems with the standard fixtures that accept T8 tubes is they need an electronic ballast plus they will not start in cold weather and from my experience those electronic ballasts are not reliable. Also they are discontinuing the 8 foot tubes and so the 8 foot fixtures require 4 four foot T8's. The good news is two four foot tubes are much cheaper than one eight foot tube.
So yes, that style of HO fixtures are probably the best lighting solution available. Just make sure you find the right voltage fixture.
Norm, the Home Depot in Ankeny, IA has 8' high output fluorescent fixtures for $54.97. They are model: Model UND 2 96HO 120 ES CW20, Store SKU# 714065
Here's the link:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?recordId=2107&List=List&state_1=IA&storeZip=50021&langId=-1&store=&N=10000003+90158+503051&Ntk=AllProps&storeCity=Ankeny&jspStoreDir=hdus&errorViewName=StoreFinderView&city=Bangor&storeState=IA&marketID=158&catalogId=10053&zip=&storeId=10051&locStoreNum=2107&distance_2=100&onlineStore=true&distance_1=100
Soooo Gary you're one of those guys that actually reads the fine print instead of buying stuff and having to return it 3 times. I'm not going to let Patty read this as she'll expect me to start doing that too. ;D
Scott you're a lifesaver! I told myself the only way you could have made it easier for me was to have bought, delivered and hung them for me. :D
In all seriousness thank you for the help guys, it is much appreciated. :)
Norm, I'm always glad to help a friend. Good luck with your project!
Scott
ps - make sure that you get 95W - 110W bulbs to go with the HO fixtures.
Norm, do you get to tell Patty what she can't read? :o :D :D
You can probably get those fixtures in Ames at Lowes. I am surprised they do not have a Home Depot there but there is one in Waterloo that may be closer than Ankeny.
gonna be a split for him--as hes about in the middle---
I guess we have chocolate and strawberry and can choose what we like. Me, I have converted to mercury vapor. I started with 96" slimline fluorescent fixtures back in 1980. Everytime I look around I am changing lamps. I have 2 mercury vapor fixtures that have been in place since 1985 and I've never touched them. Recently as a fluorescent fixture goes out, I replace it with mercury vapor. Oh, yes, I have a few regular bulbs to give light until the mercury vapor fires up. I am lighting 5,400 sq ft. I guess it is what a fellow likes.
I would not use mercury vapor fixtures for any application. First problem is the light output of mercury vapor bulbs drops off rapidly after they are installed and even though they will last a long time, you will not get enough light as they age and will use too much electricity.
Second problem is mercury vapor bulbs will soon be banned because of the mercury content.
Most all of the commercial and industrial users have switched to metal halide fixtures or fluorescent for indoor applications and the more efficient high pressure sodium lights for outdoor applications. Sodium lights will work fine indoors but people do not like to work in the yellowish light. And it is difficult for your eyes to adjust from sodium to the fluorescent or incandescent light if you mix them.
I worked in a shop that had the HPS, and I really, really, didn't like it. There was enough light in the shop, as long as it was in direct line from the bulb to the surface of whatever you were looking at. If you popped the hood on a vehicle, it was like looking into a great black abyss. It was almost like you were walking in from the bright outdoors into a dimly lit shop, all the time, you never adjusted. We had flourescents over the work benches, there was no way you could see otherwise.
Dave
Norm, here's my 2ยข worth of opinion. One of my son's high school classmates and good friend designs lighting for manufacturing companies and also designs manufacturing processes. He recommended I use 8 foot long florescent fixtures that each contain 4, 4 foot long florescent tubes. He recommended the 4 foot tubes instead of the 8 foot ones because they are easier to work with and easier to transport and easier to get rid of. He also recommended a bulb that gives a white light instead of a yellow light so you can see detail a lot better. The type of bulb he recommended can't be found at Home Depot or Lowes or Menards. You have to order it, but that was easy enough. He gave me the website of a company that does nothing but sell bulbs and tubes. He also told me how many fixtures and how to install them to eliminate as much shadow as possible. I have a 24 foot by 24 foot shop (basically an unattached double car garage). I have 2, 8 foot fixtures running down each side of the shop (can't rememberhow far from the wall) parallel to each other. So that is 16 feet of fixture on each side (each 8 foot fixture is connected to the other one). Then on each end I have an 8 foot fixture running horizontally across. All in all I have 6, 8 foot fixtures for my 24' by 24' shop. The fixtures have lenses that dispurse the light well. If you are interested in the type of bulb and the name of the company I ordered through, let me know and I'll dig out the info.
I just added 2 of the cold start flourescents with the daylight bulbs in my bank barn. Sure are bright and will likely add more.
How come the barn radio starts buzzing? It's an old stereo plugged in to same wiring . May toss it as I like the lighting so well. ???
Thanks for the tips Charlie. I did already buy the ones from HD but sure appreciate the information. :)