Beware of zoning laws!

[Neil_B]

it would be nice if one could threaten them with taking your business to another township. One that hopefully has less stringent bylaws. But where can a small time sawmill come up with that kind of money, and they unfortunatly know that.

I've been running off and on, mostly off, for almost a year now on my house lot. The neighbours say they can barely hear the mill, just the chainsaw is the loud one but most of them run chainsaws too. I have everything set up the way I like and the township clerk says the lot isn't adequate for  what I'm doing. He never even came out here to see the setup. Figured since I was putting out $650 for the application that he would at least do a full report on it but all I got was a 20 word statement saying it didn't fit with having residential lots beside me.

Now get this, the lot they approved first and second readings on, is directly across the road from all these residential lots. Right across the road from my house lot.  :-/

[Lenny_M]

We`ve had neibor problems also.My neibor owned the mill I now have.They all ganged up on him and shut him down. One of these neibors is also head of the zoning board.???
 I bought the mill and got the variance and they are permanant.I can operate a sawmill anywhere on my property 24/7. No heavey trucks hauling to or from the mill on weekends.
 Then they see a tractor trailer load of firewood being delevered on a saturday .It went to my house not the mill.You can bet they were all over it. ;D
 I may have influnced this zoning board neobor about 15 years ago ;D.He met the recieving end of Mr Mauser (8mm), About 10 ft. over his head into a tree . He keeps his distance now 8)
                                                   Lenny

[shopteacher]

Lenny, Lenny, Lenny, you know that violence and intimidation is not the answer. Why you should just sit back and take it on the chin and rather than going out and busting your hump on a sawmill make a lovely trip to your local welfare office.  Tell them your story and the'll be glad to set you up with a nice monthly checking account and if'n you got enough debt and kids maybe even a nice car.  Now doesn't that sound better than getting all hot and flustered over zoning? 8) 8)

[Tim]

I think I see the sarcasim shopteacher...

Thing I've always wanted to ask the leftists was: Who is going to pay for the welfare when everyone is on welfare?

Death by regulation has me pretty steamed here too...

[Patty]

It is a very sad day when the government knows more than you about what to eat, drink, smoke, and take care of business on your "own" land. Guess maybe some think we don't "own" our land, they figure they are just letting us use it until they can think of a better plan. Sad day indeed. :-[

[shopteacher]

I live in a borough with a small population with a large land mass between borders.  There are 2 commercial businesses I can think of, a bar and an auto body shop. The houses are spread out with large areas in between.  Now, what do you think 99.9 % of the borough is zoned under?  Residential, thats what.  I've held a seat on council for 10 years now and that was in long before I was elected. I asked the council why the whole borough was zoned this way? Their reply was ; We have more control that way (stricter code). I've never had any trouble with sawing or welding or the hundred other things I do around here, but that's not to say I'm not in violation of the zoning and if things change(new council) who to say what might take place then.  I moved out in the sticks so I could do pretty much as I please, but even here I'm in violation. Sure glad I struggled for 20 years to build and pay off my mortgage so I could own my own place. Ya, right!

[J_T]

When looking for a place if under the welcome sign it says incorpetated don't stop. They mean incararated. Ky constituion sais they oun all the land we have right of use long as we pay our tax . Our days are numbered Shop Teacher :(

[Corley5]

This thread brings to mind the case that's on going in Charlevoix Co right now.  Anyone from the northern part of Michigan has probably heard coverage on the local news casts.  Lyle Barkley, I think that's the right name, was cited by the township for having undersized mobile homes on his property one of which is a mobile classroom.  The township informed him that they were condemning them and were going to have them removed.  Mr Barkley being a member of the local militia called on his fellow comrades for support.  Armed confrontation was threatened but averted after a meeting with Barkley, Sheriff Lasater and Norm Olsen commander of the militia ;).  The last I heard Barkley was going to get his day in court which had initially been denied to him and he had started a recall drive for the township board.  This is the same township that now contains the Bay Harbor Development and has seen property values go through the roof.  Many common folk have had to sell out because they simply can't afford to pay their property taxes in the area and that is what the local government seems to want.  Drive the tax base up just as high as they can get it so they can have more funding for roads and schools etc.  What are they going to do when there's nobody left but golfers in the summer and skiers in the winter ???  My friends Grandma owns a very nice but older home on twenty acres with a view of Little Traverse Bay not far from the Barkley Estate and her taxes were $10,000.00 annually a couple years ago and I bi#*h about $1,000.00 :.  I'm not advocating that we all join the militia and take up arms in fact I think for the most part this whole militia thing is more than a bit foolish but in this case it would seem to have worked.  The judge has agreed to hear the case which he had initially refused to do.  The township board members have been given something more to think about.  The sheriff backed off enforcing the township ordinance until a court ruling.  The heavy handedness came to a halt.

[rebocardo]

I thought NH was the live free or die state. If anyone complained about my mill I would tell them to move back to MA!

When my brother-in-law moved to NH, the local cop came around to "see him" as a new neighbor. His "friendly" advice was if anyone starts to break into your house, shoot them, drag them inside and we will do the rest. Kind of a double edged message ...

But, you can leave your wallet in your unlocked car with the keys inside and both are still there in the morning.

[woodmills1]

In many ways southern NH has become massified, except we don't have income or sales tax.  What we do have is outrageous property tax and a host of other things like heavy registration fees and inheritance taxes.

In my town there has been this long going idea to keep it rural. Ha ha that has meant very little business or industrial tax baseand road improvements that wait far to long so are much less than needed when completed.  Add to that a volunteer government that is under informed but increasingly restrictive.  What we have ended up with is residential, and lots of it.  Spiraling tax rates along with increasing traffic and pressing need for more schools, more fire trucks, new police station and highway garage and more restrictive zoning along with more agressive enforcement.

People move in for the so called rural feel but no one else is supposed to.  Other area towns are beginning to buy development rights to slow the sprawl but we haven't done much of that yet.

[Patty]

You know we're supposed to be living in the land of the free and home of the brave. Well we may be brave, but we certainly are not free. What has happened when we weren't looking? Makes me want to go out and put another lock on the entrance gate to the farm.  >:(

[Norm]

We don't have any urban sprawl around here, down by some of the bigger towns they complain about loss of farmland but most of the developments go in places you shouldn't be farming anyways. By us the rural farmhouses are getting fewer and fewer. Farms are getting bigger. The number of adbandoned houses in the country is amazing. When I was a kid a 80 acre farm was common, now if you farm less than 500 your a hobby farmer (me). If I remember right you only have the right to use the land the US goverment owns it and only gives you the right to use it, there's one constitutional admendment I'd support. Goverments hate to have groups oppose them, you get labeled as militias or religious zealots. Ruby Ridge and Waco are examples of what happens when you oppose them. Best to keep a low profile and keep to yourself, Patty's worried if I'm ever on my own I'll turn into a hermit.

[shopteacher]

Patty, if Norm gets real grouchy and moves off by himself I have a large shell he could use.

[Ron Wenrich]

They did a study in our area about the impact of development on the local tax base.  For every $1 in tax increase there was a $1.22 expense increase.

Urban sprawl is a real problem.  After a long time of increasing forestland, due to farmland abadonment, it is now decreasing.  They're building homes in the forests and fragmenting the forest.

Meanwhile, they shell out the cities.  People don't even go there to shop anymore.  They go to the Sprawlmart.  Industry has left and we end up selling each other hamburgers.

There is a reason so much is classified as residential.  Under that classification, you can tax the land at a higher rate.  It doesn't make any difference what the current use is, its the potential that is taxed.  Then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because some beauracrat said so.

If you want change, then you have to change who's running the ship.  But, we continue to keep the same guys at the helm.  Incumbancy rates are staggering.

[Lenny_M]

My own FREE CHECKING account 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Five kids???CAR 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) Do horses,dogs,cats count???TRUCK 8)
Where do you sign up?? :P  And all this time I could have been fishing insead of working.

 

Yes "LIVE FREE OR DIE" is the state motto, There has been talk of changing it. >:(

 Zoning in Weare is simmilar to where woodmills lives.Very little industry is let in town. But there is no problem for a developer to put in 200 house developments??
 New safty complex(ploice and fire) More police, Full time fire dept. New cshool 5 years ago,Now too small.more teachers.More roads being turned over to the town to maintain,Bigger hiway dept. ect.
 Then we get these people that try to vote in all the thangs they came here to get away from.
 As Woodmills said "MASSIFYED"

[shopteacher]

Lenny, just give your state representatives a call. They'll be more than happy to give you a hand and get you signed up for all those freebies. That's why their there right? Oh, you'll have too get in line behind their mother, father,  brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins, friends, close acquaintances, friends friends... well I guess your already in line and in your place. LAST!  >:(  >:(

[Lenny_M]

 ??? ???Shopteacher got my to thinking I was gonna get somethin for nothin >:(
 I gotta put the ice fishing gear back into the basement and go to work :(

[shopteacher]

Sorry about that Lenny, but you know what they say: You don't get something for nothing, that is unless your a politician. ;D

[Frank_Pender]

When Woodmils said that, the first thing I though of was, how Oregon is becoming Californicated.   The new folks move here, to get away from where they came  and create that which they left.  It all set in my craw. >:(

[Bigdogpc]

Further developements...according to the county tax office (they apologized for advising us wrong) when we got the business license, we shot ourselves in the foot.  If we did not have a business license, we could saw our own lumber, have a sawmill and as long as we did not sell anything from it, zoning couldn't say anything.  Yah, OK, I am going to saw lumber just for myself...unfortunately since the fat's in the fire we are officially shut down.

The mill has been moved to another AG property as well as all the logs.  The pole barn construction has been halted pending all this blowing over.  The air dried lumber is staying put and if anything is said it is being used for fence boards...

We are now looking for property closer to Plant City.  My Dad is going to sell his place and move closer to me.  Once all that moving stuff is done, we will set up the mill again and do things a wee bit different.

Thanks to bad neighbors we got shot down.  Thanks to good neighbors we had a place to stash everything.  Thanks to the folks at FF we ain't giving up.  Not to mention I need my fix of sawdust on a regular basis! :D

[Swede]

If you can´t win an discussion, CRY! I did that a lot of Years ago driving my car in Stockholm. It wasn´t just free, it was profitable!
A very Young police started to follow me very close, just 1-10´ behind. I knew I hadn´t done anythig wrong and understood what he was up to. After some miles (!) he stoped me and listed 7-8 misdemeanours. I understood this was going to be expensive if I didn´t take a initiative. Talking to his boss could be a risk, even he could be booring. So we went to the back of my car and looked because my son sat in the car. I started to sob and tell him about how much my old car had cost me. Then saying I coldn´t find the way out of Stocholm, all with my most genuine back country dialect (Småländska) and made a loud cry. :D :D :D
He immediately became an other person and forgot all about any disdemeanours. Another aspect of the matter he forgot to apologize too.  ;D

The municipality build a new road and the entrance to my property didn´t any longer act for a truck with trailer. I went into the municipality office.  The man who handle the roads knows that if anyone visit him he also wants anything that cost money. I know that if I say hello he´ll say NO!
So I put on my most sorrowful expression and started to walk up and down outside his door until he saw me, invited me to have a seat and asked if he could help me. After some talk about "all and nothing" he asked about my problem. I told him about it and  that I had no money to build a new entrance. I   also get him some example of  angry truckdrivers vocabulary. (In reality the truckdrivers used to talk about  crazy municipal-people building roads) ;D
When he finally had realized there was a problem I told him how to solve it cheap. That it even should make safer transportations of oil and gas to the glassfactory he jumped up............ -We´ll do it!  

When I can expect a hard deal I use to go some up in the hierarchy. People on to low level have just courage to say NO!
Once i had to talk to the trade union. They asked if they could send a "Mr. something". I said: I am the archbishop here, You have to send your so we can communicate at the same level.
Their highest man came but that´s another stoty.

Swede.

[shopteacher]

Well you guys heard it from Swede. Start sobing and crying to Jeff and maybe he'll hand out more goodies.  Bo Hoo, Sob, Sob,  Bo Hoo.
  (Hey Butch, check him out and see if it's working yet.)

[Fla._Deadheader]

  DanG it, Now, THAT'S "Marketing", Swede. :D :D :D :D :D

[Patty]

Swede you crack me up! (you make me laugh) :D

 Here I thought I had the market cornered on bursting into tears when I think it may help me get out of a bad situation! I learned it from my sister, but women in general usually learn it at a very young age. It is part of our upbringing. ;)

[Swede]

Patty;

I can guarantee you that the power is x500 when a man is cryng loud on the street, behind his car! :D

Swede. *will never forget it*