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Planer tells the tale

Started by Wlmedley, June 13, 2025, 10:31:11 PM

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Wlmedley

I've had my sawmill around four or five years now and I've got lumber squirreled away that's either as old as my mill up to freshly cut. Been trying to improve a little in my sawing every time I use the saw. Just looking at the lumber I couldn't tell a lot of difference between when I first started up until now except I now know a lot more about reading the log to get the best lumber and a lot of other things I mostly learned from this forum. I bought a planer last fall and found out how much my lumber has improved. I have been planing some boards that I cut about a year ago and found that they cleaned up pretty easily and I usually could get them cleaned up by taking about 1/16" on each side.Sometimes a little more but not much. I pulled one out today which was probably cut shortly after I got my mill and thought I was going to wear my little planer out before it cleaned up.Luckily I don't have very much of that older lumber left but I've learned that if you want to see how good the lumber is that you're cutting try running it through a planer. 
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Digger Don

That's how I discovered how much I still have to learn. I suspect set-works of some sort would be helpful, but I don't see that in the near future.
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

SawyerTed

Using your own lumber teaches a sawyer a lot.  

Planing, jointing and ripping to width lets us know just how rough (or not) our lumber is.  
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

YellowHammer

We get lots of new customers that come in and say "I bought some wood from such and such sawmill, and their boards looked OK until I got them home and planed them, then I saw they were garbage.  Do you plane your wood?"

Me: "Yup, every board, and welcome to Hobby Hardwood."
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

I had well over 10 million bf sawed when I bought my kiln and planer. With that much experience, I thought I was a pretty good sawyer. I've said it many times. If you want to know how good of a sawyer you are, buy a kiln and planer. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Resonator

Yup, a jointer and surface planer can cover over a multitude of sins. ffsmiley
------------------
Rather than wear out my planer, I'll pick out any dried boards that really don't make the grade and rip those into stickers. I always need more stickers, and I still get use out of the lumber I went through all the work to produce.
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Wlmedley

I failed to mention that one of the reasons I don't have a lot of that lumber left that I sawed shortly after getting my mill is that I used some building my sawmill shed and a few other small projects. I also stacked some that wasn't stickered properly and dried like a washboard. Some that was cut with pith split crooked like a dogs hind leg and some that was so thick and thin a blind man could tell it. When cleaning out my shed this so called lumber either went in my firewood shed or the burn pile. I still have to throw some away from time to time but at least now I know when it's no good before I go to the trouble of stacking it.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

barbender

I knew the first time that I jammed a planer up on a thick spot around a knot, that I had a lot more to learn😁

This principle is true in all endeavors. For instance, in the woods, the more experience that you have in all aspects of timber harvest, the better you will be at any particular job and understand how your role affects the whole operation. 

If a processor operator has never had to pick up the wood he's cut, he won't understand what he's doing to frustrate the forwarder operator. And the forwarder operator might not understand how aggravating his piles are to work with, if he's never drove truck and had to load out of them.
Too many irons in the fire

LeftFinger

It's when you start out planing 5/4 and suddenly find a use for 1/2" :snowball:


barbender

Too many irons in the fire

SwampDonkey

What a lovely journey of hard labour it is from tattered and battered to smoothed over.  ffcheesy  Congratulations on now making fine lumber.  :thumbsup:
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SawyerTed

A good friend bought some lumber from an estate sale.  He sorted out some 14-16" wide poplar lumber from the piles that he wanted planed. 

It was cupped and twisted.  Once it was planed about the middle 2/3 was usable.  The ends tapered like propellers. 

He said, "I should've gotten my boards from you.  You don't cut lumber that's twists like that."

"That you've ever seen," I said. 

It's unusual that 100% of a rough cut stack of lumber doesn't have some cull material after drying. 

The attentive sawyer looks at the cull material to determine if it was him or the wood that caused it. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Digger Don

Quote from: SawyerTed on June 14, 2025, 02:05:25 PMThe attentive sawyer looks at the cull material to determine if it was him or the wood that caused it. 

Please, give me a few pointers on how to do that!

Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

SawyerTed

A few examples of what a sawyer should be asking in evaluating their dried lumber. 

Did the wood excessively crook?  Did the sawyer leave excessive sapwood?  That should be evident.  Did the sawyer ignore stress?  Not so evident  Unbalanced/off center sawing?   Pretty easy to see. 

Are there other defects that caused lumber degrade such as knots, excessive checks, cup or twist?   Did the sawyer overlook/disregard log defects?  Inclusion of pith?   Spike knots that weaken the lumber?   Rot or decay inclusions, wane?  Disregard of end crack, stress crack orientation for example centering an end crack that splits a series of boards rather than containing splits in a few as possible.

Did the sawyer disregard a dull blade?  Saw too fast?  Waves?  Teeth out of set?  Did the lumber dry  in less than ideal conditions?

Sometimes wood does what it does.  Did the sawyer minimize the problems or make them worse. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Wlmedley

Ted, you just summed up what it took me about four years to learn and I still have to be careful or I'll forget what I think I know.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Resonator

Boxing the heart, eliminating the juvenile core, and capturing the pith. Whatever you want to call it, it is a good habit to get into when sawing hardwood lumber. Better to have the low grade wood in a dunnage block, than try to make it into grade lumber. (Took me a while to learn that). ffcheesy
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

YellowHammer

You guys may not (or maybe will) believe it, but I get quite a few comments on my videos from sawmillers who say the most outrageous things about low quality sawmillng, and I'm paraphrasing below. 

"I've been sawmilling for 50 years, I ain't got time to make it straight or good, I saw it up any way I can, the suckers (customers) snatch it up, hand me money, and I laugh all the way to the bank. So why try get better, when I'm selling what I'm sawing?" 

I used to get pretty mad at these comments, I'd fire off a few comments about their worthless and poor attitude, but now, I just delete them.  

So if are sawing better and flatter, and proud of it, then I commend you and your attitude.

There are a lot of sawyers who just don't care.  Unfortunately.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

I'm one of the few around that will take in others lumber to dry and plane for their customer. Lots of times it gives me the opportunity to educate the sawyer and the customer. Like YH says, some sawyers will never care. Then their customer becomes mine.  
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

SawyerTed

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 14, 2025, 09:28:43 PM. So why try get better, when I'm selling what I'm sawing?" 
That attitude really does cost them more than they think.  

I'd rather sell 10 $20 boards than 40 $5 boards.  Why?  It's the same money?   Except for the labor it takes in handling and making the lumber usable.  

That doesn't even consider the cost in reputation.  

Bill Hanks Lumber Company was a mill in our county.  Jeff Hanks took over the business from his father over the years and developed an international customer base that included several Japanese manufacturers.  Jeff went to visit their plant when one of his shipments of hardwood lumber arrived.  

Jeff said the receiving inspectors used micrometers to measure thickness among other tests before sending the lumber to production.  He said that made a huge impression on him and the sawmill's attention to quality sawing.  

He realized that the manufacturers lost money having to bring an inconsistent raw product into spec before they started production.  That consistency was worth money. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Digger Don

Quote from: SawyerTed on June 14, 2025, 05:34:58 PMA few examples of what a sawyer should be asking in evaluating their dried lumber. 

Did the wood excessively crook?  Did the sawyer leave excessive sapwood?  That should be evident.  Did the sawyer ignore stress?  Not so evident  Unbalanced/off center sawing?  Pretty easy to see. 

Are there other defects that caused lumber degrade such as knots, excessive checks, cup or twist?  Did the sawyer overlook/disregard log defects?  Inclusion of pith?  Spike knots that weaken the lumber?  Rot or decay inclusions, wane?  Disregard of end crack, stress crack orientation for example centering an end crack that splits a series of boards rather than containing splits in a few as possible.

Did the sawyer disregard a dull blade?  Saw too fast?  Waves?  Teeth out of set?  Did the lumber dry  in less than ideal conditions?

Sometimes wood does what it does.  Did the sawyer minimize the problems or make them worse. 
Ted, Thank you for all the pertinent questions. Now, would you give me a few answers? I can tell sap wood from heart wood and I know that the pith should be avoided, except for larger timbers.

What is off center sawing? Not centering the pith in the cant?

I don't ignore stress. I'm just not sure what it looks like. Is that what I would call a crooked log, that probably should have been left in the woods? If it looks like a ")", will it tend to bow in the same direction?

When I see an end split, I try to open the log in such a way that the split will end up in only one, maybe two, boards.

I'm pretty sure that I'm guilty of using dull blades and improperly set bands. The mill's owner, and I , are trying to do that ourselves. We haven't figured out the setter we have, yet.

We should probably be using more stickers. Currently, we are aiming to put them approximately three feet apart. I suspect someone is going to say we need to double that.

Thank you (and anyone else who responds) for the education. I need lots more! Don
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

Rhodemont

I was sawing oak the other day and thought to myself the LT35 HD I got in 2016 is running better than when it was new.  But then rethought, no, it is running the same, I am running it better.  Everything from felling trees, bucking logs, reading the logs, sharp blades, correct speed, stickering, etc....has improved.  Not saying I can keep up with the big dogs but my boards and beams are much better now.  The 20 inch Powermatic planer does fix a lot of issues but I clean up boards (well most of them) easier now. 
Woodmizer LT35HD, EG 100 Edger, JD4720 with Norse350 winch
Stihl 362, 039, Echo CS-2511T,  CS-361P, MSA 300 C-O

thecfarm

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 14, 2025, 09:28:43 PM.

"I've been sawmilling for 50 years, I ain't got time to make it straight or good, I saw it up any way I can, the suckers (customers) snatch it up, hand me money, and I laugh all the way to the bank. So why try get better, when I'm selling what I'm sawing?"

   
That is an awful thing to say.
I wonder where else they use that phase? 
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

customsawyer

If there is a crack in a log, it's indicating where the stresses are. If you position a hardwood log so the crack is only in a couple of boards, then most of the lumber you are producing will bow in the drying process. It is really hard to sell lumber that isn't flat. It might clean up in the planer, but it won't be flat. They might make small cutting boards, but not tables or desks. There's different sawing techniques when sawing hardwood compared to when sawing softwood. Learn the best way to saw for the product you are targeting. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Digger Don

If I understand the definitions, isn't a bow better than a crook? At least in construction, where a few extra nails will hold it down? For finer work, like furniture, a crook can be sawed straight, but not so much with a bow. Most of my sawing is in oaks and some pine.
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

customsawyer

Down here we use softwood for construction and hardwood for finish/furniture. To a point what you are saying is correct. Like I said earlier, knowing your finished product will tell you how to position the log. Also keep an eye on what the boards are doing as you are sawing them. Are they raising on ends or in the middle, or are they moving to one side or the other. Their movement will indicate the direction of the stress. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Digger Don

So, if the soon to be board rises up off the cant, it's likely to bow, not crook? Is there any way to minimize that, or just make the best of it? If it is bowing, will it straighten out as it dries, if it is held straight while drying?
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

chainsaw_louie

Quote from: Wlmedley on June 13, 2025, 10:31:11 PM..... I bought a planer last fall and found out how much my lumber has improved.
.....and thought I was going to wear my little planer out before it cleaned up....

With ANY planer , large or small , the spiral heads with many small cutters are a huge  improvement over the single, full width blades . Especially on the small planers of 12-13" width , adding a spiral head converts them from an under-powered planer that really struggles with wide boards, into a much more capable planer.  A spiral head easily doubles the effective HP. 

In addition, a spiral head is much quieter and  leaves a smoother surface with less blade "snipe".  If you don't have a spiral head on your planer definitely consider getting one, you'll be glad you did.

SawyerTed

@Digger Don, this is meant as affirmative not criticism.  You are answering your own questions in many ways.  I give you credit for confirming what you are already thinking.

Sweep equals stress.  Stress equals crook or bow and sometimes twist.  End cracks are indicative of stress.  Stress can come from off center pith, growth rate and any number of other conditions. 

Centering the pith by sawing equally off opposing faces will center the vertical line through the pith in sawing the cant.  Off center sawing can cause crook.  Add off center sawing to stress and dried wood will be amazingly crooked.  :uhoh:

Think of the wood in a log as having tension and compression.  Learning to visualize that takes a little time but it comes with some time.  Seeing the wood move as it's cut is informative. Sometimes a 180 degree turn of the cant will relieve stress, sometimes a 90 degree turn produces the desired result.

Another variable that needs to be mentioned is species being cut.  Some species dry great, the wood is forgiving of some mistakes - poplar.  Some species have a tendency to misbehave when drying and punish the sawyer for mistakes (white oak) and some are simply uncooperative (sweet gum).

As far as stickers go, 12"-16" spacing is pretty common, 24" isn't unusual.  Keeping vertical alignment is important to flat lumber as is a sticker within 2-3" of the ends. 

Every log is different but I think that's the fun of the challenge in making quality lumber. Some people do Wordle or Sudoku puzzles, we make logs into lumber.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Digger Don

I'm going to blame some of my problems on the log, then. We cut a good bit of white oak. ffcheesy

I usually just cut from the top to the bottom, once I've squared, or rectangle d, the cant. When you speak of sawing equally off opposite faces, does that refer to centering the pith in the cant, or sawing one board, then flipping the cant? Saw another board and flip it again. That seems like a lot of extra work, but if it results in better lumber, I guess it's worth it.

I'm asking all these questions because we recently gave a lot of lumber to a neighbor and he mentioned how crooked it had become. We need to do better!
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

doc henderson

If it saws and lays flat and does not veer to one side or the other, you are good . @YellowHammer has a good video on it.

I Put a Stressed Log on the Sawmill and See What Happens!

Secret! Sawmilling Flat Walnut Out of Stressed Logs!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

SawyerTed

Quote from: Digger Don on June 15, 2025, 10:03:25 AM. When you speak of sawing equally off opposite faces, does that refer to centering the pith in the cant, or sawing one board, then flipping the cant? Saw another board and flip it again. That seems like a lot of extra work, but if it results in better lumber, I guess it's worth it.
All I can say is it depends on movement of the cant.  Sometimes it is one board, flip 180, saw one board, flip, saw etc.  Sometimes it's saw to the cant size on one side flip 180 and saw to the cant size, flip 90 and saw.  Every log is different.  

Drying loss can be as much as 20% with white oak and small defects and sawing errors get amplified as lumber dries.  

Keep on sawing, evaluating and adjusting.   
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Resonator

Each log has it's own challenges, like cards you play the hand you're dealt, and do the best with what you have. You learn with experience, and to recognize bad and good logs before you start sawing.
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Old Greenhorn

And you've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run....
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Resonator

I've sawn a few logs I wish I'd run from... ffcheesy
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Larry

Quote from: customsawyer on June 15, 2025, 08:13:28 AMIf you position a hardwood log so the crack is only in a couple of boards, then most of the lumber you are producing will bow in the drying process.
That's a little nugget. Where do you put the crack?

I normally put the crack at 45 degrees, it will edge off and I get flat lumber.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

LeftFinger

At least you guys get a choice If I want trees I take what people want removed.

If there not full of hardware I pretend I know what I'm doing and try to make decent boards

customsawyer

Larry, when I'm grade sawing hardwood, I put it at a 45 degree angle. Like you said, the defect can be edged off. Still have to keep an eye on the lumber movement as you are sawing. Keep in mind that my hardwood is not as nice as what y'all have just a little further north. I end up having to take the good with the bad. Still have to try to make the best lumber we can, out of the logs we get.
 
Digger Don, there can be different reasons for turning the log.
1. The stress is saying that it needs to be turned. This can be because you are getting close to the juvenile core. Or the stress in the log has changed.  
2. The grade is going away. This can be knots are starting to show up as you get closer to the pith. Or when you turn the log 90 degrees the face will be to narrow to make grade. 
These are just a few of the reasons. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Digger Don

Quote from: customsawyer on June 16, 2025, 06:03:04 AM1. The stress is saying that it needs to be turned. This can be because you are getting close to the juvenile core. Or the stress in the log has changed.  
So, if I'm trying to saw 8" boards and already have the cant squared at 8", I won't be getting any 8" boards? Not good ones, anyway? I can see where one ninety degree flip would still give an eight inch, but the next would be too narrow. Would (Could) flipping it 180 degrees make it any better?
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

Magicman

My target is always toward the customer's cut list.  
98 Wood-Mizer LT40 SuperHydraulic    WM Million BF Club

Two: First Place Wood-Mizer Personal Best Awards
The First: Wood-Mizer People's Choice Award

It's Weird being the same age as Old People

Never allow your Need to make money
To exceed your Desire to provide Quality Service

jpassardi

Good info above.
One helpful thing to know- a crack in the end of a log can clue you in on the direction of stress. The log is trying to peel open in the direction of stress. If sawing boards, orient so they crook, if framing lumber orient for bow. With less than ideal logs in particular, they can have stress in multiple directions so the best laid plans may need to be revised as you saw. Watch how the board peels up or shifts sideways as you mill.
LT15 W/Trailer, Log Turner, Power Feed & up/down
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Orlan Wood Gasification Boiler -Slab Disposer

Old Greenhorn

Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

jpassardi

Yeah, sometimes - try as you may - ya just can't make chicken soup out of chicken $#!+  ffcheesy
LT15 W/Trailer, Log Turner, Power Feed & up/down
CAT 416 Backhoe W/ Self Built Hydraulic Thumb and Forks
Husky 372XP, 550XPG, 60, 50,   WM CBN Sharpener & Setter
40K # Excavator, Bobcat 763, Kubota RTV 900
Orlan Wood Gasification Boiler -Slab Disposer

Old Greenhorn

At our mill we have a name for those logs. We call them 'BTU's'. :wink_2:
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Resonator

My tagline moto: Board Footage & Cord Woodage. If I can't make a log into the first one, it get's down to -22 below here in January... ffcheesy
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

customsawyer

Keep in mind that there's a reason that hardwood mills make a cross tie or pallet cant out of the middle of the log. 
If you are wanting all 8 inch wide boards then saw them at 10 inches wide if they have crook.  Then you can edge them to 8 inches after they are dried. Even when sawing pine I will saw over my target size. This lets me run them through the edger before the planer. It gives a little more waste, but a much better product. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Old Greenhorn

When I started milling I used to say to myself "yeah, that looks pretty good". These days I take a board off the mill and say "Well ain't nobody running THAT through a planer" and it either become dunnage or firewood.
 Once you start planeing your own lumber you look and think about things a whole lot different. There are no 2 ways about it. On the flip side, there's not much that feels better than running one of your dried boards through the planer and and it come out fully smooth and clean on the first 1/8" pass.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Stephen1

Digger don, The only lumber that gets stickers 3' apart is Board and Batten pine that is going out the door this week. 
Hard wood slabs 10/4 will get 24" stickers.
Everything else is 16" stickers. all stickers  start and end at the very edge of the wood. checking stops at the sticker. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

doc henderson

I do 18 for hardwood and 24 otherwise.  I do 2-inch-wide runners, so the final pallets are 3 foot 2, 6 foot 2, 9 foot 2 or potentially half between those.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Wlmedley

Just built another drying rack today. Need to move it next to my sawmill shed. Hopefully my little tractor and pig pole will pick it up and carry it. It's pretty heavy. This one is only good for 8' lumber. I have one for 10' already. Not planning to cut much longer than that unless someone requests it and if they do they can dry it or use it green.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Digger Don

Quote from: Stephen1 on June 18, 2025, 09:02:55 PMDigger don, The only lumber that gets stickers 3' apart is Board and Batten pine that is going out the door this week.
Hard wood slabs 10/4 will get 24" stickers.
Everything else is 16" stickers. all stickers  start and end at the very edge of the wood. checking stops at the sticker.
I guess I need to start cutting a lot more stickers! 

Thanks to all who have contributed to my knowledge in this thread!
Timberking B20, Magnatrac 5000, Case 36B mini excavator

Stephen1

Yes you do, sawmill operations  eat stickers! 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Wlmedley

Got my lumber rack put in place today. Not very level next to my sawmill shed so I had to improvise a little. Made it for 2' sticker spacing but if I ever use it for thin lumber I can add 4more 4' 2x4s and have 1' spacing. I plan to run a string line across bunks and plane them if necessary to make sure they are all true with each other. I've got quite a bit of white oak I need to get started drying.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Wlmedley

White oak leaning against my woodshed will go on rack.I have dried thick lumber this way and it worked out okay but this is some nice stuff and I think stickered on the rack might work out better.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Wlmedley

Got my lumber on my new drying rack. Around 120bf. Now I need to round up some tin to cover it with.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

beenthere

Looks like a good beginning, but will you add more weight before the tin ?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jpassardi

My suggestion: put another row of stickers then metal then slabs for weight. 
LT15 W/Trailer, Log Turner, Power Feed & up/down
CAT 416 Backhoe W/ Self Built Hydraulic Thumb and Forks
Husky 372XP, 550XPG, 60, 50,   WM CBN Sharpener & Setter
40K # Excavator, Bobcat 763, Kubota RTV 900
Orlan Wood Gasification Boiler -Slab Disposer

Wlmedley

I've got some pretty heavy timbers I'll put on top of another row of stickers before covering with tin. Got a little more oak I'll probably add also.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Magicman

I really like your drying rack idea.   ffcool
98 Wood-Mizer LT40 SuperHydraulic    WM Million BF Club

Two: First Place Wood-Mizer Personal Best Awards
The First: Wood-Mizer People's Choice Award

It's Weird being the same age as Old People

Never allow your Need to make money
To exceed your Desire to provide Quality Service

SwampDonkey

A fella with a band mill could make a large covered shed with open sides with lots of over hang and maybe have 4 of them racks under it with a path to walk up the middle.  I'm full of ideas.  ffcheesy
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

doc henderson

used to hear about T sheds that had a row of poles down the center of a roof of trusses spanning on both sides.  lots of open space without posts along the sides.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Stephen1

Doc that's even a better idea. I have a kayak rack, and its a centre pole idea with access from both sides. Lumber storage could be the same. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

doc henderson

If you had a kayak trailer with racking for many kayaks you could pull the wood at 70 mph and speed dry it.   move_it :uhoh: ffsmiley ffsmiley ffsmiley
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

jpassardi

LT15 W/Trailer, Log Turner, Power Feed & up/down
CAT 416 Backhoe W/ Self Built Hydraulic Thumb and Forks
Husky 372XP, 550XPG, 60, 50,   WM CBN Sharpener & Setter
40K # Excavator, Bobcat 763, Kubota RTV 900
Orlan Wood Gasification Boiler -Slab Disposer

Old Greenhorn

The question is: how many miles per board foot would you get? ffcheesy


EDIT: Maybe I have that wrong. Perhaps it's Board Feet per Mile (BFPM)?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Resonator

What I do is add another row of stickers on top of the lumber, then tin, then weight. I like to make sure the tin has overhang over the ends at least a few inches, to kick the rain water away from the stack. One caution with tin overhang wind can catch it in a storm, make sure it has enough weight to hold it down. My experience the pile that the tin blows off, needs more weight. ffcheesy
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Wlmedley

This is my first attempt at drying lumber outside. I've got another similar rack in my shed so this is a experiment for me. I'd rather have a roof over it but I thought I'd see if this would work. Never know until you try.Hopefully by this fall it will be dry enough to flat stack it in shed. I've got a place to put it inside but it is hard to sticker it as I've only got good access to one end.Maybe I'll screw tin down to timbers to keep it from blowing off.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

longtime lurker

Quote from: doc henderson on June 21, 2025, 07:25:54 AMIf you had a kayak trailer with racking for many kayaks you could pull the wood at 70 mph and speed dry it.  move_it :uhoh: ffsmiley ffsmiley ffsmiley
Actually I've done it quite successfully. Lucky accident but I was coming back from a portable job years ago. I had stripped the timber out when sawing intending to tarp it for transport so I didn't have to restack it when i got home. It started rain athe forecast was good all the way so I didn't bother to tarp it. It was raining, it ain't going to dry out is it?

Wrong!!! 2 things dry wood fast... heat and airspeed. I got home and parked in the shed and i could see the looseness of the strapping and figured I'd lost the entire load to drying degrade for sure. Tractor trailer load, call it 8000 BF, lot of dollars blown because I was too lazy to kick a tarp out.

Narrowleaf Red Ironbark is a slow dryer but it was at 10% within a week of the trees being harvested. But because it was raining there was the lowest amount of degrade I've ever had for the species. So imma say the best schedule is showers to rain in patches, and 3 hours at 60 mph.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Resonator

I've screwed tin down to hold before too. Had a customer a while back where all the lumber I sawed from his logs, I also agreed to store until he was ready for it. Ended up building basically a pallet on top of each stack, and screwing tin down on top.
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Old Greenhorn

Hey Bill, how about something along these lines?


Photo shows it before a tarp was laid over the top and stretched out to trees. It almost made it through 2 winters until a RO got snapped off in an ice storm and broke the ridge board. Always meant to add corner posts and then run rafters. This one is 16' long, which as far as I would go. I have another that I built in a shed style for drying short bench slabs. I put rafters on that one and a tarp over the top and it is still holding up very well but needs a n3ew tarp or roof decking.

EDIT: I found a photo of the smaller one. Note one side is full tarped because that side faces south and I wanted to keep direct sun off the wood.


Later I added a sticker rack in the overhead for the dried stickers and I am still picking stickers from there 4 years later.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

I get the 4-foot bottom boards that are scrap at Lowes (if you ask the right person) and put them on top and bottom of single stacks and pallets.  they have the groove for steel or plastic banding.  they hold the whole stack together and I can screw tin or plywood down to the whole bit.

Tom, how about % reduction per day per board foot per mph.  I think Gene Wengert could figur it out, may God rest his soul.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Andries

Bill, here's what I use.

These were air dried under the same tin roof pallet.
The cap is a bit bigger than the top stack of ten footers, then eight and then sixers. This makes a rain shadow for the bottom stack of oak.
Open bottom lumber pallets are the best Forum invention ever.
The only thing better is a HEAVY roof pallet.  
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

doc henderson

I have thought about making a form/pallet to pour the left-over concrete after pours onto and then having it to place on top of my standard pallet stacks.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Resonator

Another option is to strap/band the stickered stack rather than put weight on top. Also good if you wanted to hold the whole stack together, then move it with forks to set someplace out of the way to sit for a year.
I have heard stickered stacks of lumber can dump over when moving them... :uhoh: ffcheesy
Independent Gig Musician and Sawmill Man
Live music act of Sawing Project '23 & '24, and Pig Roast '19, '21, & '24
Featured in the soundtrack of the "Out of the Woods" YouTube video:
"Epic 30ft Long Monster Cypress and Oak Log! Freehand Sawing"

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Wlmedley

Thanks fellas . A lot of good ideas here. I'll probably use a combination of all of them. 
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Old Greenhorn

Sorry Bill, that was kind of a ninja stealth attack by the design committee, It's our new division. ffcheesy ffcheesy
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

SawyerTed

One of my best customers uses small drying sheds similar to the drying rack Bill built. His tin is on posts and is essentially a hinged roof he can lay back out of the way for loading.  

Then he wraps his loaded drying shed in landscape fabric.  It breathes but tends to shed water and snow. The landscape fabric also shades the lumber from any sun that may filter through his shaded locations.  

He's got five or six that are 4'x8', 4x10 and 4x12.  IIRC, he uses ratchet straps instead of weight.  
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Wlmedley

Ted,I like the hinged roof idea . I'll have to think on that for a little bit. The design committee has already overwhelmed me with ideas and I'm kind of a slow thinker. I could possibly hinge a roof off the side of the shed. At this point I'm not really interested in sawing large quantity's of lumber but what I do saw I would like to be the highest quality I can produce. With my mill I'll never be able to cut a large amount of lumber but I can cut good lumber. Figuring out how to dry it without ruining it is my next challenge. Here's what I have so far although I did add a couple ratchet straps. If I had a FIL it would be alot easier but if a frog had wings he wouldn't constantly bump his butt.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter,Honda Pioneer 700,Kabota 1700 Husky 550

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Wlmedley on June 21, 2025, 05:20:58 PMThanks fellas . A lot of good ideas here. I'll probably use a combination of all of them.
You know this one might have boomeranged a bit. I was teaching my SIL entry level milling on my manual mill yesterday and he was asking what I was doing with the stuff I have milled and the logs I have on hand. As I was running through my thoughts I glanced at my drying rack pictured earlier and realized I never sheathed the roof as I planned. It was this thread that planted that thought in my head. Since I just took that pine off my front lawn last week and have another junky pine log to dice up I thought I wouldn't get much more than 1x6's or 8's out of it. That will work out just fine for sheathing.
 But the weather has to cool down first. ffcheesy
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way.  NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

GAB

The early part of this thread was very interesting.  I never thought of using a planer to check for sawing quality, that was a real eye opener for me.
Someone wrote about sawing 1-1/4" and cleaning up at 1/2" - now to me that is very poor sawing and ending with birdhouse material.  I keep hearing about a lack of housing in this area, however I never heard it was a lack of bird housing.
Now if it cleans up at 3/8" that is jewelery box material.  The jewlers are going to like you as the owner will want to fill it.
Looking at Howard's bird houses he uses 1" material if my eyeballs are reading his pictures accurately.  If he sawed 1/2" he could almost double his production quantity for roughly the same wood material cost.  Since bird houses are used in the spring when the weather is warmer there is no need for the additional insulation.  Just sawing.  Oh HI Howard!
GAB

W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Magicman

Much bird house building material was not sawed for bird houses but is leftovers from previous projects.  Kind of a cleanup & salvage venture.
98 Wood-Mizer LT40 SuperHydraulic    WM Million BF Club

Two: First Place Wood-Mizer Personal Best Awards
The First: Wood-Mizer People's Choice Award

It's Weird being the same age as Old People

Never allow your Need to make money
To exceed your Desire to provide Quality Service

GAB

Quote from: Magicman on June 24, 2025, 10:43:34 AMMuch bird house building material was not sawed for bird houses but is leftovers from previous projects.  Kind of a cleanup & salvage venture.
MM:
I know I was just ribbing Mr. Green.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

SwampDonkey

A lot of white cedar ain't good for much else unless you're making raised beds or fence boards and they be knot holey boards for sure.  ffcheesy
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

YellowHammer

I always used to end the sawing week by finishing a pack and toting it off to the air drying area, but now, I will leave a starter pack by the mill just so people can see and inspect the green wood off the mill, for our walk in retail sales days. 

It's "bait" for customers and to show off our quality control, as a business.  Customers will see it and and start making comments about how the wood already looks planed, no thick and thin, how flat it is, no cup or twist, just "glowing wood" and then they invariably start comparing it to my competitors wood.  I don't even go over there, they can draw their own conclusions.  Then they come over and start asking questions and here are my canned answers:

"Yes, I only sell kiln dried, hit or miss planed, and that is fresh sawn wood, I did it yesterday afternoon.  Nothing special, it's what I do.  You've not seen that quality come off other mills?  Huh, well maybe they had a bad day."

Yes, I sawed that 4/4 to 1-1/8", and will kiln dry it to 1- 1/16" and then hit or miss plane it to 15/16" only having to take 1/16" off each side to get a nearly fully planed, flat board.  That's all the stuff in this building.  It looks good, doesn't it, most are fully planed both sides, aren't they?  Yes, they have to be flat as a pancake for that, but ain't no big deal."

"No, I don't know what such and such's sawmill wood looks like, but if it doesn't look like this, why are you buying it?"

All that means little unless to can point to a pack of planned lumber, or better yet, a building and prove it to them. 

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

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