jms 900 sr

[mike_belben]

isnt that why people like logging?  the sense of adventure?  i mean id skydive if it came with the occasional hydraulic bath surprise. 

[47sawdust]

I had my hydraulic bath yesterday. Beat the Saturday rush.

[logman81]

It's no fun unless death is on the line😉

[logman81]

I feel the complete unit is probably the way to go for many reasons. 

[Corley5]

That's a factory Farmi contraption.  Once upon a time they did make such a thing.  Our local dealer had one in stock back in the late 80s early 90s that I lusted after.  I had sales literature on them.  They made lots of neat stuff  

[mike_belben]

then i feel much better about it.  

while it was a terrible idea for a skidding device behind a driving tractor, it would work well way back in the black and white days for a stationary winching position like the top of a bank where a straight truck or hay wagon with bunks or whatever is pulling along side it.  a feller is laying them down, a choker setter is running the cable back down and the operator is reeling them in and loading trucks or wagons.

i would lunge at the chance to get that old turd to graft into a trailer to go behind my dozer, me personally.  but only if i could buy it right because i could build it better from pieces.  if not for that pesky time and money issue.  

if you cant operate it, plan on 50% of the packings and hoses and orings to be bad now, and the other half later. 

[47sawdust]

That would be a very cool piece of equipment set up as Mike said.
You have to bear in mind that that Scandinavian equipment was designed for pole wood.
I would love to see the original sales brochures from that period

[mike_belben]

yeah, featherweight pole wood, as evidenced by the fixed heel on such a rinky dink crane. you arent heeling big long oak sticks without that tearing the back of the tractor off. 

[logman81]

Awesome  Corley so my suspicion was right being a factory unit. I too would love to see the info on them I love the concept. As far as price its not to expensive of a asking price and having a now very successful landscaping and tree service business I can now afford such cool old iron, I love the old unusual logging equipment most of you know. 

I was thinking of snagging it and adapting it on to a trailer that I could pull with both my small tractor and pickup to haul tree service waste and some firewood logs. Possibly running it off a small hydraulic power pack and power the winch hydraulically with a hydraulic motor with a speed control built into the system? 

[mike_belben]

A gas engine can throttle for speed control easy peasey for free. DC powerpack cant, so it would need a valve to do it.  

Getting a hydraulic motor to run 540rpm and have any real power is gonna take a substantial hydraulic system.  I would look into a 16hp+ gas motor running 3600 rpm into a right angle drive to gear the 3600 down to 540ish for the winch which is gonna want a 1-3/8 six spline coupling- and run a hyd pump for the loader to get 10gpm.  

A kohler k321 would be my choice for used engine since theyre mass supported, electric start,  double shafted and have DC clutch sheaves.  The driveshaft would run the reducer box and the clutched mower pulley would run the pump so that i could crank it with basically no load. Those were the standard for deere and cub cadets with 5 lugs and cast iron front axle beams.

If i had to buy new, probably a 2cyl predator running a lineshaft extension into the gearbox and a belt taking power off a sheave on the lineshaft.

[logman81]

Seems a bit over complicated to me. I think it could be simplified using just hydraulics to make everything work. Looking at surpluscenter they have 6 splined pto hydraulic motor that could be coupled to the existing winch shaft and run a flow control to dial it in to 540rpm. I feel 10gpm is a bit excessive of a pump most of what I see are 6 to 8 gpm from the manufacturers. I would definitely go new with the components as I'm not to much of a fan of used motors and hydraulics. The predator 22hp is a great motor and probably the one to go with in my opinion.

[mike_belben]

the problem with that is youre taking a winch that is designed to run behind a good sized pto tractor.. with a PTO torque likely up in the 400ft lb range.  remember that those cable drums are basically just freewheeling on the PTO shaft and then friction coupled to reel in, and the drum diameters are large relative to the shaft diameter which acts as a speed increaser/torque reducer to boot.

youd need in the ballpark of 20-25gpm @2500+ psi to even remotely compare to the pto shafts performance. thats some series pump, valve, lines, tank, filter and cooler before you even consider the power unit. now youve got enough fluid to make the winch do okayish but the loader is way too fast and the thing costs and weighs a ton. no powerpack is gonna do this either.

if you go with a 22hp predator itll spin 4k (too fast for cheap pumps) and make 45nm peak torque at 2500.  run that into a 4.6ish worm gear to get around 540. this will give you about 150ft lbs of no loss, no heat torque.  the hydraulic system has about 20% losses built in when new and gets worse from there.


for sizing the loader i would go no less than 10gpm.  the rotate, grapple and slew will not take much fluid because they have a fast linkage ratio, but the stick and boom are slower ratios and will want a lot of oil.  you will almost always be running with two sticks open at once and that will immediately halve the flow so dont think of it as 10gpm in each port.. itll be 5gpm or even less much of the time.   at 2500PSI you can only move 14gpm with all of a 22hp engine and youll want all of that when youre in a hurry.  10gpm will be a good match to a 22hp motor in that itll run smooth and not be lugging up and down on the governor. itll sound like the factory made it.

the predator has a pretty long stickout shaft.  it should have enough length to run the belt sheave up against the block and a lovejoy into a gearbox on the end.  i havent built it yet but ive mocked up all the parts for my FW processor off the predator twin with a cheap extension shaft and support bearing to create a line shaft for takeoff power to multiple pumps, a gearbox for the conveyor and maybe a sawdust drag chain or auger. wasnt much.

[logman81]

Wow yeah maybe this isn't going to be possible then. 

[mike_belben]

its very possible.  mounted on a trailer, behind a tractor, with a suitable PTO shaft and 10gpm or better remotes.  

going outside of that general scope might be a fools errand.

[logman81]

Yes thats more what I was thinking honestly the winch probably not get used much only on the occasionally when something was out of reach. My tractor is equipped with remotes but there is two problems with that. One being that they power my loader and two I only have 5gpm.

[wisconsitom]

Help my ignorant eyes here...is that a fold-up boom on that thing, with the grapple sort of sitting up on top?  Different looking for sure.

Some day, I wonder what I'll use to forward small stems out of my plantation en masse.  I'm just dinking around now and the choker cable on back of the tractor is suitable.  But some day....and not too far off, I sure could use a small forwarder.

Or maybe I'll just be hiring the Amish guys to come in and do the work!

[mike_belben]

These are the scenarios where tongs and a cable jammer crane fit the bill just right.  Make the tongs pin on so you can switch over to choker in a few seconds for reeling to the trailer. 

 You wire an anderson connector back to your tow rig hitch and that puts alternator charge to the big deep cycle battery you put on the trailer neck to power the cheap chicom winch that swivels with the crane.  The winch is $400ish or less, deep cycle battery is $100, $50 for tongs and scrap for the trailer.  Amazon generic remotes are $20 and all will work fine for one hand.  No need for hydraulics.  

[Ed_K]

 I started with this set up to do timber stand improvement back in 1998.



 

 Yamaha big bear with a 6 hp motor w/ a 11.5 gal barnes pump hydraulic tank on the back. It's hooked to a 4' american wood splitter. The trailer is a boat trailer that I modified to hold 8' cordwood from the woods. The pump ran the loader well and when there was a real heavy chunk the barnes pump would go into low gear and pick it up.

PS. the 22 hp predator motors are out in the ocean so it may be 6 months before you see one in a store to buy.
 The loader pictured was before I started modifying it.

[mike_belben]

i love it ed.  

unfortunately i missed the window to get a swivel and grapple for pre-covid money.  now theyre as much as a whole crane probably was a few years back. 


for anyone with a hydraulic crane wanting to add a winch, the absolute cheapest way is to add a load bearing hydraulic motor meant for zero turns, with a 5 lug rim.  just mount the motor and a rim, plumb it and fish the line through a fairly and youve got your winch.  no freewheel but you can easily uncoil loops over the side of the rim.  

with a generic DC winch remote controlling a DC spool valve you can have remote control too.  

[47sawdust]

Mike,
You make it sound so easy