Tigercat to discontinue 2 skidders

[timbco68]

 I saw the tigercat salesman today and he mentioned that next year they will discontinue the 602 and 610 skidders. Not enough demand for the smaller models I guess.He also said that he hasn't sold any 620's for at least a year and that the 630 is selling instead. Kind of crazy that the smallest skidder people are buying is over 270 hp.

[OH logger]

Wow. Everyone wonders why no one makes a small skidder anymore. I guess that's why.. no one buys em. 

[BargeMonkey]

 The big guy working down the road here has 4x 632Es, 2 track shovels and a newish 745D Timberpro. Local kid down the road from him with the 2 cable skidders is in horrors as they strip the side of a mountain down to 6". I never thought I would consider a 648G3 to be a "small skidder" 😆. 

[timbco68]

Man , I bet that fuel bill is terrifying when 4 632's are on a long skid in deep snow.

[BargeMonkey]

 The guy had a fuel truck sitting on the last job. I would lay you odds he's 20-25k+ gal a month on / offroad, and getting it directly from the port, that saves you .30- .40 right there. The on-road cost is 3.4055 tonight delivered and typically offroad is .08-.12 less, straight trailer load I bet its even less. The company I work for runs 70+ boats, typically each average over 25,000gal a month EASY, that's 2mil gal a month, that's where the #'s get BIG. We just passed a VLCC tanker in the harbor that was drawing 46ft, has a capacity of 2.2 mil bbls of crude oil, that's 92,400,000 gals. They just want the working class driving electric cars and all electric homes so we are easier to control when the blue helmets show up. 

 It's changing, not saying it's for the worse, always be the small work but I think the days of the small iron are gone, guys can kick, scream, reminisce the "old days", I'm just at the 100 mile line from the pulp mill and it's coming down here more and more. The new 602 @ CJs that sat next to my poverty 620C tigercat was 285 ? 305 ? And it was a single arch toy, have to be retarded to buy one unless your a clearing contractor that needs a tax right off. 

[timbco68]

It's getting to be really a big boys game isn't it? There will always be stuff for the small operator to do , however, what equipment will be on the used market when all the 648 deeres and 525 cats are ground down to scrap level. Deere quits making parts for their stuff after 20 years. There is always the boneyards but they get picked clean too. My trucker has a perfectly decent Deere grader that he did township blading with but he had to park it because of some transmission parts he could no longer find at Deere or anywhere else for that matter.

[rdobb13]

Just sat in a new 602 grapple at the dealer. Kinda started daydreaming a bit until the salesman said $285,000. I said I'll be back in 20 years.  

It was however the first time I had seen one. Really just about the right size if you wanna save the woods. 

[timbco68]

Yeah , if you sit in one, you start to get crazy thoughts. I do anyway.

[Firewoodjoe]

I wish I could get a brand new forwarder for $285,000. 

[barbender]

Right!

[ehp]

Oh you can just make each payment $285,000 .  Its just that easy or just be like Barge . It's a one time payment for him.. $285,000 is pocket change for that man .  

[ehp]

602 is still a big skidder for here and yes I have been in them and at the factory when being made .  Its a shame no one is making a small new skidder any more thats a good machine 

[ehp]

If things keep going we will be back skidding with horses lol.  No newer machines and once the older ones are beat there is mot going to be much left

[barbender]

Nah Ed, we'll all be running monster iron for the biggest logging conglomerate in North America, BargeCo.😁

[Firewoodjoe]

I think there's only two ways if your independent. Really small, one man band or monster of the neighborhood. 

[Walnut Beast]

Guys that are doing multiple services have  a advantage to have equipment like that. 

Just like different cycles in everything that they or somebody will make a smaller one someday 

[Firewoodjoe]

I've never got big into multiple things but have tried a little. For me it don't work. I'm better off putting all my time into one main thing. Get spread to thin and you start having to make more per endeavor. Steady at one through the good and bad pays for me. 

[Peter Drouin]

A nice big one is cool, but, to find someone to run it and show up every day is the hard part.

[BargeMonkey]

 20% down, 5% ? 4300 on 60 worst case. Pocket change to Ed. 😆. Alot of money for a toy. I paid 85 for mine, for 18 months.
The work is changing, half the reason my father and I have it out sometimes is because they still believe we need this small work to keep going. Another BIG phase of clearing work / 3-4Mil yard mass excavation job coming out local again, 40 acre paid clearing job to go walk I get home, 3k an acre to rip and tear, keep what I want and 150hr for the poverty shovel to feed the grinder, 8hr work days 🤦‍♂️😆, hit that harder than Piper Perri on MLK day.  Another customer is getting serious about the campground, I can't justify buying well used CTL to stare at it, when I'm ready buy a low hour Timberpro. 

[ehp]

Barge .  Nice Try .  We all know your the money Guru .  Hell your beer money is more that what most of us make a week . .   I honestly believe they have to change here .  Machines most use are 40 plus years old here.  I know guys want to try cut to.length but they are shoving back so far on that .  I'm old so sitting in a cab sounds good to me but to get a machine that is small but cut 36 inch plus trees all the times is going to be hard to find I think

[barbender]

 I think the reality of the available equipment will force them to adapt their rules, or they just won't be getting any wood cut. The only harvester that can fit between those narrow rows and cut that big timber wears boots and is named Ed😁

[ehp]

And Ed is dam old and slow and lots say mentally handicap 

[Mountaynman]

Ed we had a jd 653 cutter that had a hultdins super fell head with a 39" 3/4 pitch bar would cut anything you wanted to had a live heel on it so you could jockey yourself around think of a giant bell head its now made by wartah. That machine was originally from quebec and ended up in the upper up of michigan when we traded it did modified ctl with it still had to get out measure and buck the limbs off but bucked and piled the logs for the forwarder. That set up would be about the only one that will help you in your timber.

[Firewoodjoe]

In good hardwood you don't need a processor. All you doing is felling and measuring. Not really any delimbing. Any of the big 360 rotate fixed head bar saw heads would cut 30-40 in hardwood. You just rotate the head backwards and use the height of the tower like a measure  stick. I do it even with my harvester. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Prolly even bigger once you got good. I cut 20-30 inch all day. Good logs to. And mine is a "18 inch"head. So they say. 

[Mountaynman]

For sure Joe there was a mill down here that had a couple tracked bells that would fell the straddle the tree go up and top it then back down grab it back out to the trail and put them in hitches for the grapples lots of ways to do it they had two really good operators on them. Lots of different ways to do it for sure.

[Riwaka]

If the new larger skidders cost so much,(and no smaller skidder being built new) at what price point does it become economic to give a smaller older skidders partial rebuilds depending on what is required. (Updating the engine to a higher tier)
or giving a tractor the Kotschenreuther.

The Euros still have smaller skidders.
The French Camox skidder is 175hp Tier 4, weight is around 12 tons. (Other Camox skidders are euro Tier 5)

Width 98 inches, 2.5 meters on the small 23.1 x 26 tires.

The Equus Slovakian 175 skidder starts at 19K lbs and upwards depending on.

https://www.equuseu.com/production-program

[ehp]

Most of the skidders in my area are 30 plus years old cause no small skidders made Most machines are 102 inches wide or less with most being in the mid 90's inches

[Firewoodjoe]

If the new larger skidders cost so much,(and no smaller skidder being built new) at what price point does it become economic to give a smaller older skidders partial rebuilds depending on what is required. (Updating the engine to a higher tier)
or giving a tractor the Kotschenreuther.

The Euros still have smaller skidders.
The French Camox skidder is 175hp Tier 4, weight is around 12 tons. (Other Camox skidders are euro Tier 5)

Width 98 inches, 2.5 meters on the small 23.1 x 26 tires.

The Equus Slovakian 175 skidder starts at 19K lbs and upwards depending on.

https://www.equuseu.com/production-program

Personal i think, if you dont want the new technology it's usually worth fixing the old. But it's tough to come of with the money for a restore and the down time. 

[ehp]

Around here I just cannot see spending $500,000 for a new skidder unless you got that much coin just sitting around cause having to pay for that will be very hard and you can never count of having a place to sell your logs for the next 5 years or having work for a mill for the next 5 years 

[teakwood]

Even if you have the 500k laying around, financially it wouldn't make sense if you can't have a return on your investment with a nice profit. you would be better off investing that money in something more lucrative 

[ehp]

That's what I'm saying , even cut to length here even when it comes legal I cannot see it working cause of the cost to own and operate the machines , To go to Tigercat and buy the machines to cut the bigger wood in our money I'm guessing 2 million but it could be more than that , Yes alot easier on the body but huge payments in a market no one knows is going to be buying 

[Brian_Rhoad]

Tigercat has a new small skidder. 

612 Skidder

[Southside]

41,000 lbs, over width, and they call that a "small" skidder! 

[ehp]

And believe they are not small , good thing about the turn around seat cause you would tear half the bush down getting turned around with out it , just way to big for real select cutting 

[barbender]

A turn around seat effectively makes a machine much smaller.

[Walnut Beast]

The guy I got my hydraulic winch from that did a logging stint for three years felt the need after awhile for a bigger skidder. He had a smaller Timberjack, larger Timberjack and a CAT D4 grapple skidder. He had a John Deere 848 L  he was going to use but took on more farming ground so he said goodbye to the dangerous work before one of his four guys got really hurt or killed.

[ehp]

Turn around seat is nice , the forwarder I had had it but I tried that machine in the bush and way way to wide but it was 12 feet wide with the big flotation tires on it and the wide bunks , I am going to try that 648 again and see if I can make it work or have to sell it to Barge cause he is buying everything 

[Log-it-up]

But it's not just a 500k skidder you can't possibly hand cut that much too pay the monthly payment with out killing your self so you have to add the 700k buncher then the slasher loader at 450k it doesn't really end the equipment manufacturers have really put the squeeze on the little guy

[BargeMonkey]

☝️☝️☝️ The system out here is rigged against the little guy. Fuel, insurance, no help, and every jump you make with iron just adds to it. Had a local kid here spouting off about getting big and I said be careful because slavery is only a few strokes of the pen away. The wood is out there, works out there, how hard do you wanna beat your head against the wall ? 

Ed sit tight, I'm not planning to disappoint you this year 😆. 

[barbender]

I think the way that the system is rigged against the little guy, is the fact that in logging there are too many little guys willing to work for not enough money. Guys love working in the woods and continue to deliver wood for prices that aren't enough. As soon as the mills are short on supply, the prices move upward. So then what do loggers do? Turn right around and pay more for stumpage🤷

[ehp]

Barge you never disappoint .  Thing is most of you guys are working in a different type of logging and timber Ohio logger is like here but we have more tree cutting bylaws.  . I would never cut grade timber with a slasher . You cannot see the grade of grain of the wood as good as standing right on it . When your value is say 10 times or more in grades of veneer over saw logs you better watch real close or your loosing money fast and hard .  . I feel a goid skidder one size bigger than say my old 230a would be pretty . Say the size of a short frame 666d or 667 with cummins 

[OH logger]

Alll this talk about big money big skidders makes me really appreciate my debt free 548 even more. I take real good care of it and kinda baby it. In return I hope it takes care of my son(s) and me for many many years. It's put a lot of bread on our table. Good narrow light nimble capable machine for us. 

[BargeMonkey]

Ed said he's going to loan me the money to be able to afford filling it  😆 NY thinks everyone is stupid, and I know this maybe hard for the "the permit lovers" to hear, but I'm not getting another fuel permit to mount a 500 + my regular fuel oil tanks at my house, nope. Trailer is 750 or 900 gal, they can't say a word about it. I think it will be handy.

[Walnut Beast]

3.55 Diesel around here out side the city off the interstate 

[BargeMonkey]

Gasoline was more expensive than on-road for a couple days. I bet if you bought a trailer load of off-road right now it would 2.80-.90ish 


  

[Firewoodjoe]

Ed said he's going to loan me the money to be able to afford filling it  😆 NY thinks everyone is stupid, and I know this maybe hard for the "the permit lovers" to hear, but I'm not getting another fuel permit to mount a 500 + my regular fuel oil tanks at my house, nope. Trailer is 750 or 900 gal, they can't say a word about it. I think it will be handy.

We don't need permits until it's very large. Not sure what size. I know lots of loggers with multiple 1000s. We have it pretty good here yet. Even without the permit problems that trailer would be handy. Yesterday my delivered cost was 2.89. I'm happy with that. 

[ehp]

Barge any time just keep it under $25 or I will have to take a loan out at the bank .  Here right now its $1.65 a litre so we are paying alot more than you guys to the south but thats still better than #2.50 a litre . 

[teakwood]

He Eric, how much is such a trailer? man, that thing would solve me some problems

[ehp]

Barge has 5 or 6 of those trailers just because he can 

[BargeMonkey]

I just come here to watch you guys work for a living 😆. No the one I'm getting is technically used, someone bought it and realized after 3 trips it wasn't what they wanted.
Anything that has the capacity to gross over 990 in NY, and then if it's able to gross over 9900 you fall into the next category.

Ramon I will get a copy of the brochure, and what options / sizes and send it to you. Roughly 6k and up, how fancy you wanna get. 

[barbender]

 I spent the morning researching and stressing over buying a new $13K dump trailer, Barge would buy two or three of them while on lunch break without batting an eye😁

[Southside]

I think that's a FED DOT rule Barge because here you don't want to be going down the road with a 1,000 gallon tank that has a drop of fuel at the bottom without all the Haz Mat permits. 

[Walnut Beast]

I just come here to watch you guys work for a living 😆. No the one I'm getting is technically used, someone bought it and realized after 3 trips it wasn't what they wanted.
Anything that has the capacity to gross over 990 in NY, and then if it's able to gross over 9900 you fall into the next category.

Ramon I will get a copy of the brochure, and what options / sizes and send it to you. Roughly 6k and up, how fancy you wanna get.

You said it how fancy do you want to get some of the ones the farmers have at 45k +

[Skeans1]

I think that's a FED DOT rule Barge because here you don't want to be going down the road with a 1,000 gallon tank that has a drop of fuel at the bottom without all the Haz Mat permits.

Dot requires placards after 119 and an endorsement.

[BargeMonkey]

 The DOT cop got talking at the last class, everyone got asking questions and transfer tanks came up, if you had an empty 275 in a truck that wasn't stickered they would get you, same as carrying the saw on a loader trailer, another possible ticket, like anything it depends on the creeper clown and if your on the radar.  New with the fancy pump and paint they are 8200 for a 750. Pay taxes and support the drug addicts or go buy something. 

[Log-it-up]

I thought federal law was capped at 99 gallons after that you needed hazmat license and placards 

[Log-it-up]

And creeper clowns 😂 that's a good one I thinks that's going in the vocabulary bank 

[Firewoodjoe]

Some of the guys here have a tank right on the landing. The fuel company will delivery a tank and keep it full. We lock everything and put cameras up anyways.