Mesquite Buckeyes red gum eucalyptus thread got me to thinking. Different wood workers have various degrees of respect for different tools in the shop. Like, nobody is likley to be afraid of a palm sander, but pretty much everyone will probably have table saw in their top three that scare you. Scariest being number one, my top three are.
1. Table saw. The only tool that has ever really bit me... not really bit me but tried to send a push stick through my arm.
2. Shaper. Mainly just because they have a lot of rotating mass, especially with larger cutters.
3. Bandsaw. Recently bought one I am in the process of restoring, and I have VERY little experience using one. The noise they make when under load sounds like something out of a scary movie.
1. Radial Arm Saw (aka Radical Harm Saw)
2. Radial Arm Saw
3. Table Saw.
I have no idea how radial arm saws have such a bad rap. I feel pretty safe using mine. making cross cuts, it can't sling a board at you like a table saw can, and I can run a zero clearance back stop to eliminate it slinging small cut-offs like my compound miter saw does from time to time.
They have a tendency to cut peoples thumbs and hands off, if they are parked in the wrong spot.
Shaper, especially open shaping freehand. :o :o
Jointer, especially when pushing the limits on length. :o
Radial Arm Launching device.
Table launching device.
Oh, that's 4. Oh well. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Quote from: hackberry jake on August 27, 2014, 09:04:33 PM
I have no idea how radial arm saws have such a bad rap. I feel pretty safe using mine. making cross cuts, it can't sling a board at you like a table saw can, and I can run a zero clearance back stop to eliminate it slinging small cut-offs like my compound miter saw does from time to time.
It just slings the board forward and kicks the saw back towards you, especially the old ones without kickback fingers. :o :o :o :snowball:
Any tool is dangerous if you do stupid things with it.
I've zinged myself pretty good with a palm sander. :(
Maybe we are naturally more careful with a machine that can do major damage. Hope so.
I respect the three, as well as the jointer and chop saw, but none of them "scare" me.
1) Lancelot
2) Bench top grinder
3) Hand held beam saw (16" blade)
Tablesaw
Large router in router table
chopsaw (can chop off whole hand)
Quote from: Left Coast Chris on August 27, 2014, 09:24:39 PM
1) Lancelot
2) Bench top grinder
3) Hand held beam saw (16" blade)
I had to look up lancelot... its the chainsaw grinder wheel thingy... Yeah... That's a good one.
I once had a router bit come out of the router while in a cut... never did find it. I make sure the collet is plenty tight now a days.
When a big router bit is squalling, that is scary to me.
I once chucked a new bit into the router table and spun it up. The bit was out of balance and began wobbling and chewing through the insert. I ran and pulled the plug - I didn't want to get near the switch on the router. The router survived but the insert and bit were destroyed.
It gave me a healthy respect for how all power tools can become dangerous.
1. Chainsaw
2. Chainsaw
3. Chainsaw
Table saws, no bad things, but they can get you. The cheaper disk sanders, the ones with cheap rests, bout lost my finger nail when the small part was sucked into the wheel, it happens really quick. jointers aren't scary, just hard for me to get it right. Sanders will bump once in a while, usually just a good wake up call.
Nail guns... they can sure sneak up on a fella too.
The table saw does actually scare me, so much that I sold mine. The chainsaw doesn't scare me, maybe it should. Back in March, I was trying to trim up the butt on a big poplar log with the 42" bar on my chainsaw, trying to avoid bibbying once on the mill. Well, that didn't turn out so well, when I tried to use my leg instead of the dogs for leverage
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33082/002%7E5.jpg)
Worst part of the whole accident was that I didn't go to the doctor until the next day. Too late for stitches, one month out of work and a leg brace. Dumb guy move the doc said.
YIKES!!! That could have been a whole bunch worse. I have a healthy respect for any power tool but chain saws, table saws and jointers are at the top of the list. I have a couple of fingers that got trimmed in table saws. And don't forget lathes, they demand full attention too.
1. Tablesaw
2. Chainsaw
3. Woodsplitter
I know more guys that lost fingers in woodsplitters than tablesaws. But I know guys who have lost fingers in tablesaws also.
Still got all 10 thankfully.
any old electric tools with a metal case. I have been buzzed by several when I pulle the trigger only to find out they have current leakage to the case. my cousin was 21 when he was killed by an old metal frame 1/2 inch drill. I pitched all mine the next day. PLEASE THROW THEM AWAY!!!
next, table saw. Yikes its more like a board launcher
next, chop saw. I had a small log I was cutting off hang up and it crushed the laser light on the back before hitting 3 of the 4 walls in my shop.
Some freehand pics ...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/renzoni_front_door_12_jpg%7E0.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/freehand_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/stair_parts1.jpg)
i spent a lot of money on a sawstop tablesaw because the table saw scared me the most... i knew several cabinet makers missing fingers growing up and i always said i wasn't going to be like them. one day i knicked myself making a cut that i knew was dangerous and i decided that day, that i would rather have some credit card debt and all my fingers then be missing my fingers and regretting my decision to wait...
but the only tool i've ever seriously injured myself on is the jointer.... i guess i had my fingers behind the piece pushing it, i don't really know because i didn't even feel the blades hit my finger, i only figured out something was wrong when i noticed the blood everywhere, but i made a full recovery, it wasn't nearly as bad as the blood everywhere might have made it seem.
1. jointer
2. tablesaw(but now i feel safer)
3. shaper or router in a table
Heard some statistics from a friend in the woodworking business;
- more injuries from the jointer than any other tool in the workshop. Unlike most of the other tools mentioned, the jointer damages body parts in such a way that there isn't anything for a surgeon to graft back on.
- injuries are most likely to happen in the first five years of machine usage (the owner hasn't yet learned how to align, maintain and use the machine) and after twenty-five years of machine use (complacency sets in)
My top three tools that demand respect:
* Chainsaw
* Jointer
* Framing Nailer
Lets play safe out there guys!
I think that keeping up with the latest upgrades and add on safety equipment is a wise move, buying quality tools and keeping them fit with the latest safety upgrades is a must.
I also think that a lot of tools are scary and that keeping your guard up ( not your saw blade guard ) and maintaining an awareness of the dangers that cause damage and injury is most important to safety. Wear your safety gear when you need it and maintain it so that it is in working order, chances are that you may never have the opportunity to test your gear, but why take the chance.
My list of scary equipment:
1. 3hp Delta shaper
2. Rockwell/Delta tablesaw
3. Rockwell/Delta jointer
Keep it safe, keep safety in mind
Quote from: yukon cornelius on August 28, 2014, 08:26:00 AM
any old electric tools with a metal case. I have been buzzed by several when I pulle the trigger only to find out they have current leakage to the case. my cousin was 21 when he was killed by an old metal frame 1/2 inch drill. I pitched all mine the next day. PLEASE THROW THEM AWAY!!!
next, table saw. Yikes its more like a board launcher
next, chop saw. I had a small log I was cutting off hang up and it crushed the laser light on the back before hitting 3 of the 4 walls in my shop.
It is not the tools, but it is the operators. And ground wires need to be in place, and not the operator becoming the ground (like standing in water) when using any electric tool is a good idea.
I shudder when seeing the many electric devices women (mostly) use in the bathroom around sink faucets and running water. Doesn't take much to become the ground and get a lethal shock. Yet not often heard of.
I've never run one, but old insert head shapers make me nervous. Any tool where the start up instructions include laying on the floor and reaching up with a stick to turn the machine on to see if the head is going to fly apart can't be too safe. :o
I have a healthy respect for every tool I own.
Here are the top three tools that I never use when I am tired:
Chainsaw
SCM
router
The old metal frame drills need a 3 wire cord,5 bucks will fix.I have been using a metal cased skilsaw since 1958..In short you dont stand in water while using electric tools...
i respect every tool i run. :) they usally aren't accidents, mostly avoidable ;) pay attention and all is safe :)
Quote from: 36 coupe on August 28, 2014, 07:08:49 PM
The old metal frame drills need a 3 wire cord,5 bucks will fix.I have been using a metal cased skilsaw since 1958..In short you dont stand in water while using electric tools...
And if you do stand in water while using electric tools you may SHORT the circuit yourself...
Only takes 30 milli amps of current across the heart to cause it to stop.
Herb
Forstner bits in a cordless drill. 12 stitches.
Tule peak... I would like to follow you around for a couple days and take pictures. I got a couple questions, 1. is that a homemade shaper in the first pic? don't know if I've ever seen one like it, and 2. What size is that monster bandsaw and what are you making with it?
Hi Jake , No not home made -just modified to do single functions with better speed and efficiency. The bandsaws are Italian 24 and 28 inch Centurions. In the pic I'm making stair parts.....Rob
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/cohn4_007.JPG)
The shaper pictures scare me! Maybe we need to add best safety equipment to a new thread!
Mine would start with:
1) Husky forest hardhat and chaps
2) Sawstop table saw
3) A wide variety of push sticks and jigs
and if there was more space
4) replaced stop switches with oversized ones I can hit with a knee
5) trend airsheild for sanding/planing
6) proper dust collection at each tool
The shaper pictures are supposed to be scary..That's a good thing !
1) Any hand tool with a butterfly switch, just a flying wreck waiting to happen.
2) Air actuated chop saws, either knee or foot controlled.
3) Cheap table saws.
Allan
I grew up in a production wood shop. My Dad started me full time in the summers when I was 12.
My Dad told me that no one ever got hurt in his shop, that someone didn't have their head stuck up somewhere that it didn't belong. This has held true in every job, in every field that I've ever worked in.
He also taught me that every machine is like a jealous woman. Take your mind off of her for just a second, and she'll get your attention.
So, back to the main question. Top 3 woodworking machines that scare you? NONE! I do have a healthy respect for every tool in the shop. If a machine, or tool scares you, you should stay away from it.
Safety equipment? The best safety equipment you can have is between your ears. I highly recommend that it is used while operating any machinery. Nothing they can come up with will ever replace it.
My $80 bandsaw came with a sign that said "machines DO NOT come with brains, you must use yours".
1. Tablesaw
2. Lathe
3. Routers
1.radial arm saw
2.jointer
3.chainsaw
Not scared of any of the above, but like Redprospector said, have a healthy dose of respect for any and all power tools. The 3 mentioned are probably the most capable of causing massive damage if not used properly.
Quote from: hackberry jake on August 30, 2014, 01:35:11 AM
My $80 bandsaw came with a sign that said "machines DO NOT come with brains, you must use yours".
We borrowed an Oliver corn picker once that had a factory installed sign that said: "Caution, this machine is faster than you are!". :o :D
Not scared of em, but, the band saw is the one that bit me the worse, until I fought the wall fan, and I am very respectful of the radial arm saw, the shaper, and anything with a rotating blade.
There is probably nothing worse than a straight line rip saw with the blade on top. They say you had to wear a leather apron to keep from getting speared from kickbacks. Then there are circle saws with top saws. And shapers.
Quote from: Gary_C on August 30, 2014, 12:14:39 PM
There is probably nothing worse than a straight line rip saw with the blade on top. They say you had to wear a leather apron to keep from getting speared from kickbacks. Then there are circle saws with top saws. And shapers.
The only thing I can think of might be the gang rip that my Dad had in his shop. As long as you kept feeding one board butted up to the next, there wasn't a problem. At the end of a unit of lumber the catch man had to be on his toes, or one of those pieces between two blades could gather up a pretty good head of steam in 12 to 16 feet of board. The trick to not getting hit was to not get in front of it. :D
Redprospector, you are definitely right on that one. One cut-up mill I worked for had us making banding channel on a gang rip saw using basically a dado blade between the taller blades with spacers. What a disaster! You wore a leather apron plus stood to the side.
Allan
I worked with a guy that lost an eye running a wood lathe. He was wearing saftey glasses, but the piece in the lathe blew apart with enough force to go through his glasses and right into his eye... it was a piece of eastern red cedar log. To this day I won't turn cedar bigger than pen blank size.
do you know if there were knots, checks, or bark inclusions? all of these things can make turning "exciting".
I have a scar running through the middle of my left eyebrow from a cedar chunk. No ones fault but my own. Had a gauge and no head gear on. Rang my chimes pretty good. So good I didn't even know I was bleeding till the kids told me so. The woodworking tool that scares me the most is myself, and a router.
6 or so years ago my elderly neighbor literally cut his hand completely off w/ a radial arm saw. He grabbed his severed hand, held it to the stump and walked over to another neighbor's house. He used his foot to knock on the door and politely asked if they would please call 911. Lifeflight flew him to a hospital in Missoula, MT then to Seattle. They surgically reattached the hand and (to me anyways) it is amazing how much use he still has with his left hand. He can't close his fingers all the way/ make a tight fist with his left hand but he can hold a nail, open a pop top etc.
Radial arm saw, table saw, . I used to build a lot of furniture and only had a radial arm saw. They can do a lot of jobs but sure are dangerous.
before I was a wood worker I was a commercial fisherman and wood working is pretty tame in comparison . Severed digits a go-go, death by several ways, even some accidents that required counselors for responding authorities/help.Winches are particularly dangerous....... The best answer in this thread is the one about respect for ALL tools and using your BRAIN !Cheers Rob
Quote from: hackberry jake on August 27, 2014, 09:04:33 PM
I have no idea how radial arm saws have such a bad rap.
Worked at a lumber yard years ago. One of the managers told me that they used to use the big radial arm for ripping. They'd turn the head 90deg and lock it. One day someone new tried feeding the saw a 2x4 12' from the wrong end..... :o
Now keep in mind, this was a BIG saw, like a 14-16" Dewalt.
The yard is right next to the Amtrak tracks, and the saw was about 80' away, aimed right at the tracks. He told me that it launched the board and buried all but about a foot of it in the heavy stone ballast of the tracks. Others confirmed his story.
They no longer used the radial arm for ripping after that.
BTW, back in the early seventies an old timer that worked for my dad cut his thumb off on another BIG Dewalt RAS. He wrapped the stump in his hankerchief, clocked out and started to walk home (about 10 miles away).
One of the other guys told my dad what happened, and he had to go find Charlie and convince him to get in the car and to go to the hospital.
I read an ad in the classifieds on time that read " For sale. 1 brand new table saw only used once to cut 1 finger off" I want to put a smiley but I know it really was not funny when it happened to the guy.
I guess it's kind of morbid, but what can I say. ;D
As I was growing up in my Dad's shop there were several people who lost their fingers to radial arm saws, rip saws, and shapers. Usually at the finger nail, or the first knuckle. I was a little bone collector. I had a small jar half full of body parts. :D
After I (kind of) grew up, I was put in charge of the shop, and that jar became a very valuable tool. I would show it to the new hires, and when they asked what it was, I would explain it to them and then tell them that if they didn't do what they were told, the way they were told, and never take their mind off of what they were doing that I would be proud to add their finger to the collection. :o
A lot of them would walk away saying " I don't need a job this bad". :D
I don't remember the exact numbers, but our accident rate dropped dramatically from the use of my collection. :D We had a really good crew in those days too.
Quote from: justallan1 on August 31, 2014, 01:55:45 AM
Redprospector, you are definitely right on that one. One cut-up mill I worked for had us making banding channel on a gang rip saw using basically a dado blade between the taller blades with spacers. What a disaster! You wore a leather apron plus stood to the side.
Allan
I can just imagine.
That dado between the rip blades would only allow a strip to gain speed faster.
But in reality, those strips can only go so fast, according to the blade speed.
I don't think you could get more than 250 mph. out of a strip no mater what you did to make it gain speed. :D
Ever noticed how most rip saws are made with the table between cajone, and belt buckle high?
Maybe thats why im not too scared of my radial arm saw. Its an older dewalt 9" saw with a 50 year old 3/4 hp motor. If something binds up, the blade just stops. I isn't capable of sending a board flying or doing anything forcefully. I have to really take my time making a cross cut or it will just stop.
Sometimes a tool will get you :D :D :D :D
I have a RAS and a fancy Bosch SCMS. Both have been replaced in my shop by a sliding table saw. It can do everything the RAS and SCMS can, only better and safer.
Like was said before... I'm not scared...just really respectful...of my shaper and tablesaw. The only one I'm scared
of is my wife! :o :D
I think the bandsaw is one of the safest tools in the shop. Sure you can work at it and get a finger in there, but it's not trying to kick something out and throw it at you.
John
Brush saw with a madman bush whacker behind it. Look out! ;)
At the sawmill in college, they had a radial arm saw that they used to break down slabs for firewood (educational mill, not production)
The RAS was totally enclosed in a steel cage :) with an extended handle out the side. It would bind up and sometimes stall, sometimes send pieces flying around the cage. Now that I think about it, I'm glad it was there.
Ya know, it does not have to be the equipment, it could be the operator. This morning everything I touched seemed to draw blood. Not the equipment, but the wood and assorted sharp or pointy things that stick out. After three hours of this (slow learner) I shut it down and am now in the office, drying off so I can put bandaids on the leaks. >:(
Good point. If you are even a little "off" that is a good time to park it and do something where you can't get yourself or someone else hurt. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
I knew a high school shop teacher that cut off 2 of his fingers in a band saw. He had them in formaldehyde in a jar in the shop display case. Opened every semester with "If it can happen to me it can happen to you."
I was shaping a table leg on the wood lathe once. The lathe had an on/off switch that was about 12 inches off the floor. I locked down a 3 foot long 4x4 and turned the lathe on. As soon as I touched the tool to the wood my brain said this doesn't look right, I bent over to turn things off and before I hit the switch the wood hit the tool bar and flew over my back and across the room. Didn't touch me, but if I had hesitated even 1 second I would have caught a face full of spinning 4x4, and that scared the hell out of me.
Starbits
It is the brain or lack of using it that has caused my "accidents", most recently my thumb meeting a saw-toothed forstener bit in the drill press to the tune of 4 stitches! I did not bother to clamp the piece to the table and fence.
Reading this thread is enough to make you want to close down your shop and sell all the tools with liability disclaimers at the time of sale :D
Guess the three i respect the most
1. Chainsaw
2. Tablesaw
3. Radial Arm Saw
I bleed every day. What's to be scared of. ;D
Had a radial arm saw at the lumber yard that was from the 50's this thing was so scary.We used to stack 4 2x12 to cut at a time. When you started it up you could hear it at the other end of the yard. Shutting it down and the blade to stop took over a minute!
Sorry still going through all the old posts bringing some back to life lol