The Forestry Forum

Hi Guys. I'm probably about 1/2 to 3/4 way through my DIY sawmill build. I've been collecting knowledge here, lurking in the shadows for some time. A big thankyou to everyone here, especially Gww, Pineywoods, Magicman, Ox, Kbeltz, LJohnsaw and so many others. Reading through all the work you've done convinced me that I could make this idea a reality.
  I decided I needed a small sawmill after a storm knocked down a lot of timber on our family property. I hated to see all that timber go to waste, but it was too much to use for firewood. I never could convince my wife that we needed to spend the money to buy a small mill so that left one option, build it from my scrap pile. I was finally able to retire and that gave me time to start the project, or so I thought...another story.
  Before I retired a friend at work gave me a small diesel kubota garden tractor. It was pretty much junk, but the motor ran great. I had a telescoping light tree off an old constuction genereator that I thought I might use as the frame and an old small northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company utility traier I could scavange the axle from.  
  Don't laugh, I don't have a workshop, or even a medium sized flat spot to work on so constuction has been a trial. All of our property is hills and hollows. I didn't have anything to build the track out of so I decided to start building the sawhead and carriage. Looking back that was a mistake. To anyone else out there building a mill on the side of a hill, my advice is to build the track and level it first, then build the mill on top of it.lol Here's a photo of my progess so far. I cut this board from an old slab I had cut out of one of the storm fallen trees several years ago with a chainsaw. I know, I need blade guards.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/First_Board.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675205942)
 

It cuts straight lumber right? Good Job! 

Thanks, It did cut better than I expected. I hope to get the blade guides installed next. I was very concerned that cutting the board would push the blade off the wheels, but the tracking held it in place pretty well.  

You cut a straight board without blade guides?  I'd call that an excellent build!

On a side hill to boot!!  :D

  Thanks guys, it surprised me too. I was expecting it to come out very wavy since there's 3 foot between where the blade is supported on the tires. The drive wheel tire is slightly out of round too. I'll need to get it trued up. There's plenty of small problems left to fix. Like my lift winch. I had originally intended to put the mill on timbers laying on the ground. But I think I like it up higher like it is now. But I'm not tall enough to reach the winch! My drive belt may be a size or two too long although it didn't seem to slip. My drive pulley behind the tire may not be for a B belt like I thought it was. The belt rides very high on it. It's very heavy to push so I ordered some new v-groove wheels with ball bearings to replace the roller bearing wheels I have now.....
  Speaking of my winch, has anyone had any luck adding a motor to a small worm drive winch like I have? Even if I could comfortably reach it, I'd really have to do some cranking to get to the top of a log.

Looks nice. I know I have been pretty impressed with the lumber I have been able to turn out on my homebuilt unit. I am sure you will be very happy. 

I would love to see some more detailed pictures. I always love seeing how other people tackle some of the issues I ran into.

Retired,       I have seen photos of some one building a saw head lift by attaching a power source to the hand crank shaft of a boat type winch, they either used a wheelchair motor direct or an ATV winch with chain and sprocket. I can't recall if it was a build on FF of you tube. the system seemed to work.  

Quote from: Crusarius on February 01, 2023, 09:25:24 AM
I would love to see some more detailed pictures. I always love seeing how other people tackle some of the issues I ran into.

I have some photos I took along the way. I'll try to post some as I find and organize them.

Quote from: Iwawoodwork on February 01, 2023, 12:44:03 PM
Retired,       I have seen photos of some one building a saw head lift by attaching a power source to the hand crank shaft of a boat type winch, they either used a wheelchair motor direct or an ATV winch with chain and sprocket. I can't recall if it was a build on FF of you tube. the system seemed to work.  

I'll try to find that. I was thinking about a treadmill motor I have, but the voltage is wrong. Wheelchair motors may be a better fit.

   I'm going to try to document some of the process that got me to this point in hopes that it might help someone else. Maybe they can avoid some of my mistakes. Disclaimer: I am not a welder and never professed to be. Also a good 4.5" grinder and a big pile of cutoff wheels are crucial to this project.

Pulley Build:
    I knew I wanted to use the axle from an old utility trailer. During the process I learned that the cast iron trailer spindles are not ground round on the outside. They only finish a small section where the wheel would ride on the front side. Mine were very out of round. Just something to be aware of. The trailer had four lug 8" wheels. I knew I didn't want to use the 8" wheels and the tires were rotten anyway so I decided I could use the wheels to mount the weld on pulley to the back side of one spindle. Unfortunately it didn't space the pulley out far enough to clear the tires I bought later so I cut a spacer out of wood to move the pulley out enough to clear the tires. I probably could have found wheels with a different offset, but I got a good deal on some 13" tires already mounted to 4 lug wheels. I knocked the wheel lugs out and used some bolts the in their place to mount the tires and pulley assembly. I ground a shallow taper on the inside of the bolt heads to help with alignment with the hub. Here's a photo history of the pulley build.

8" trailer wheel cut in half beside weld on pulley.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272437)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272435)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272447)


Turns out I didn't need to cut the wheel down the center. Should have cut to one side of the hub.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_4.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272450)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_5.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272458)


In order to weld the pulley from both sides it will be sandwiched between these two sections. The sections were welded together then the pulley welded from both sides. The pulley had to be cut with a jigsaw to fit around the inner lip of the wheel. You have measure to center the pulley, tack weld it, put it on the spindle and spin it to check that it's centered. If not cut the tack welds and start over.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_8.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272512)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_10.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272575)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_12.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272554)


Finished product. Remember I said I'm not a welder.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_13_finished.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272563)

I found one more photo of the pulley on the rear of the spindle.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pulley_14_mounted.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675272571)

  This is how I modified my norwood with a HB winch.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35110/norwood_winch_addition~1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580308674)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35110/sawmill_winch~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576899154)
 

I then modified again with mobility scooter motors with complete variable speed. Both  the carriage and head.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35110/lm29_modifications.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675297581)
 

I do not recommend a treadmill motor as they are direct drive and the rpm would be to fast.
Here is my write up with pictures over on the Norwood site.

All the information you need is on my norwood thread in detail. sorry its against forum rules to post the source

Quote from: Jack S on February 01, 2023, 07:33:55 PM
I do not recommend a treadmill motor as they are direct drive and the rpm would be to fast.
Here is my write up with pictures over on the Norwood site.

power feed and power up and down LM 29 | The Ultimate Portable Sawmills & Forestry Equipment Discussion Group for Modern Sawyers - Norwood Connect ? Norwood Sawmills' Online Forum (https://www.norwoodsawmills.com/forum/norwood-sawmills-equipment-forum/power-feed-and-power-and-down-lm-29)

Thanks Jack, I am wanting to eventually add a power feed to the carriage too. I see that post is a couple years old. Is the motor that drives the carriage down the track holding up? It seems like that would be a pretty big job for those small motors, even with the gear reduction. I have a HF ATV winch I had thought about using to raise the head. I decided it would probably be too fast to get accurate measurements. I may have to revisit that decision. I may be able to use it to drive my worm gear winch if it's too fast on it's own.

I was going to use a 1000 lb winch that I had but after playing with it I realized being right next to my head that thing is deafeningly loud! The noise would resonate through the entire carriage. 

I ended up using a wheelchair motor. I would like more power but I do not want to convert over to 24v.

I may still add a torsion spring for lift assist because the down speed is perfect.

with  the motors I used on my norwood I have plenty of power. raising the head draws 14 amps descending  4 amps. The carriage draws average of 5 amps.

The speed controls work very  well but always do a soft start and stop (factory advised). this will eliminate any current draw when switching off and on.  it also stops the jerking and lunging effect.  relate this to how a elevator operates.

The total 0-100  percent variable speed is really nice when setting  the cutting depth as you can easily glid to your setpoint.

I've used this system  2 years now with total success  

The treadmill motors are working very well on my old delta wood lathe also

As you see in a previous post picture I originally used a HB winch It had a good average speed but was difficult to home in on the setpoint.  You could still use it and control it with the $15 dollar speed controllers that I used.
I really like the scooter drive motor better 

All the information you need is on my norwood thread in detail. sorry its against forum rules to post the source

 

Quote from: Jack S on February 02, 2023, 12:00:13 PM
As you see in a previous post picture I originally used a HB winch It had a good average speed but was difficult to home in on the setpoint.  You could still use it and control it with the $15 dollar speed controllers that I used.
I really like the scooter drive motor better

All the information you need is on my norwood thread in detail. sorry its against forum rules to post the source

Crusarius and Jack:
  I copied the information from the other site to my notes for later. I'll probably order the wheelchair motor for the head lift after I get all the basic build taken care of. My new ball bearing wheels came in and most of my control panel pieces are here also. Between the blade guides and everything else I'll be busy for a while. Right now I need some good weather so I can work outside.
 
Jack:
  Did you get your chain and sprockets from the same source?

 Here are some more photos from the early part of the build. This is the old Kubota 1800 Garden Tractor that was the donor for the engine and fuel tank. The engine starts easy and runs good. It's a small 3 cylinder diesel. The glow plugs, generator and fuel pump work but the regulator is fried. I thought about using the dash board but it was in such bad shape I decided to go with new individual gauges and indicators.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Engine_Donor.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675392612)


The begining of the frame. 4" tube still has welded fittings from the light tree base. I've long ago lost count of how many 4.5" cutoff wheels I've used.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Cross_Beams_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675392119)


 The bottom of the frame is some 3" x 3/8" angle iron that used to be the top of an old clothes line. I should have let it stick out further in the front. That will end up biting me later.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Cross_Beam_welded_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675392208)


Trying to decide how to mount the engine to the frame. Original rubber mounts were shot and probably wouldn't stand up to the constant side pressure from the drive belt. I decided a solid mount would be sufficient. There's actually less vibration with this engine than there would be with a single cylinder gas banger.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Engine_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675392688)

The chain and sprockets were purchased from an online ebay store. at 12 volts the carriage moves about 1 foot per second. when sawing pine I run 40-50 percent.

the head motor is direct drive when at full 12 volt power it is very close to what it would be with the hand crank.

Your build is looking really good by the way.

I have a Kubota D662 3 cylinder diesel that came out of a lawn tractor as well it's a 19 hp and it's mounted directly to steel which hasn't been a problem for me. A friend of mine gave me a monster lawn mower that has a Kubota V1505 in it with hydraulics that some day the mill will be powered with which I'm real excited about!

Quote from: Jack S on February 03, 2023, 09:43:48 AM
The chain and sprockets were purchased from an online ebay store. at 12 volts the carriage moves about 1 foot per second. when sawing pine I run 40-50 percent.

the head motor is direct drive when at full 12 volt power it is very close to what it would be with the hand crank.

Your build is looking really good by the way.

Thanks for the compliment. It's pretty much a find a way to use what you have build. It ain't pretty, but I think it will get the job done.

Quote from: JRWoodchuck on February 03, 2023, 11:45:48 AM
I have a Kubota D662 3 cylinder diesel that came out of a lawn tractor as well it's a 19 hp and it's mounted directly to steel which hasn't been a problem for me. A friend of mine gave me a monster lawn mower that has a Kubota V1505 in it with hydraulics that some day the mill will be powered with which I'm real excited about!

Sounds like a good deal. More power is always better. I've seen different specs on the 662. Some say 16hp some say 19hp. Either way I think diesel is the way to go if you have it. Mine runs pretty smooth. I get more vibration from the wheels than the engine. I need to true and balance them.

  These are photos of my tracking adjusters. I was worried about the strength of the adjusters, but I think it was unfounded. With the trailer tires for the bands wheels you can't really get the same tension the guys running solid band wheels get.
  My smaller tube was way too loose sliding in the larger tube. I split a couple sections off the smaller tube and welded it to the sliders to take up the extra slack. I drilled holes in the main beams and welded 3/8" nuts over them to force the assembly into the corners. The bolts are ground slightly round on the ends and only tightened a little over snug to maintain a little pressure on the sliders. There's another nut at the top outside edge pressing down. Vertical adjustment to keep the wheels plumb is done with shims under the rear of the axles. Once it's set right it shouldn't change. Toe in or out along with the tightening the band is done with the two 3/4" couple nuts then locked in place with the two regular 3/4" nuts. I couldn't find a picture of the original axle. It was just the spindle stub welded into a piece of thin channel material. I used some 3/16 angle to weld around it for extra strength. The Drive axle just has flanges that bolt to the bottom of the large tubes. The only adjustment on the drive end is the shims if needed to get it plumb.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478715)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478738)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_8.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478776)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_10.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478781)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478765)
  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Slide_post_for_tracking_9.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478817)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Tracking_axle_adjusters.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675478790)

  This is the rear of the saw head. The clutch control is the lever on the right It moves the idler wheel up to tighten the drive belt. The throttle is also coupled to the clutch so that when the clutch is engaged the throttle goes to high speed.Since the clutch and throttle don't move the same distance. The spring on the throttle couple keeps the clutch from trying to force the throttle cable to move too far. I'll probably add an adjustable stop to the throttle lever as a safety stop. As the belt wears the clutch will pull further, but the throttle can not. There is an adjustable wedge on the rear tracking leg to lock the clutch down so the user doesn't have to hold it while cutting the log. At the bottom of the fuel tank is the fuel filter. To its left is the fuel pump. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Sawmill_Head_Rear_View.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563373)


  Fuel Filter and Fuel Pump

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Fuel_pump_and_filter.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563463)


  Clutch lever disengaged.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Clutch_Disengaged.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563500)


  Clutch engaged and held fast by the adjustable wedge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Clutch_engaged.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563454)


  Clutch and throttle linkages at idle position. The idler pulley is moved by the 3/4" rod going through
the pillow block bearings.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Clutch_and_throttle_couple_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563434)


  Clutch engaged, Throttle high.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Clutch_and_throttle_couple_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675563435)


  I plan to move the battery to the top of the fuel tank to help better balance the beam.

That is a pretty sweet setup, I like that. I ended up with a go kart clutch then just put a large throttle lever on the push bar so when I slip I release the throttle and everything stops.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 05, 2023, 12:00:43 PM
That is a pretty sweet setup, I like that. I ended up with a go kart clutch then just put a large throttle lever on the push bar so when I slip I release the throttle and everything stops.

That's interesting. Back in my early years I worked as a mechanic in a go kart shop.
My engine already had the double pulley mounted to the flywheel so I decided to use it.

  Just my luck, we finally get a few days of sunshine and I get called for jury duty and doctor appointments. :-\
 I found a couple pics of the square tubing from the old light tree that became the actual saw head and carriage.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Light_Tree_Sections_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675769886)


 The four metal boxes to the left are the old ballasts for the lights. The two toned rectangular box is an old fuel cell I was planning to use as a  my fuel tank, but it was too large.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Light_Tree_Sections_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675769884)

  Since I wasn't required for the jury duty I spent the some time trying to figure out how to install my blade guides. Of coarse the stationary guide is pretty easy. I think I have a plan for movable one. Here's a picture of the pieces I cobbled together today. I hope to have them installed this week. I'll post another photo when they're installed. I think I should have left a little more room between the tires and the saw frame. It's starting to get cramped and I still have to fit a blade guard in there.
  My voltage regulator came in yesterday, I need to work on the wiring too.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Guides_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675812930)

I did the sliding tube in tube like you have and found it to be difficult get and keep aligned.  That's why I switch it out in my revision.  Go back and look.  Sorry, posted the link on another thread... I used a 1" square tube on point (like a diamond) set between 4 tiny V-grove rollers.  Rock solid, slides easy and I added a long 12v linear actuator that I picked up for free.  I have a few more that I could test and if they work, I'll ship you one if you pay the shipping.  Here's a picture before I put the linear actuator on in place of a cludgy cable setup.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_d.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485618)
 

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 07, 2023, 09:47:36 PM
I did the sliding tube in tube like you have and found it to be difficult get and keep aligned.  That's why I switch it out in my revision.  Go back and look.  Sorry, posted the link on another thread... I used a 1" square tube on point (like a diamond) set between 4 tiny V-grove rollers.  Rock solid, slides easy and I added a long 12v linear actuator that I picked up for free.  I have a few more that I could test and if they work, I'll ship you one if you pay the shipping.  Here's a picture before I put the linear actuator on in place of a cludgy cable setup.

Thank you for the kind offer, but I'm probably not going to automate to that extent. I am thinking about motorizing the saw head and carriage after I get it all working. I remember reading through some of your posts. It's a sweet setup. Right now I'd be happy to just get this build finished, cutting, and in it's permanent location. If I have to rebuild the moveable guide I may touch base with you for more information on the parts you used.
  I wish I had bookmarked some of the great articles I've read here when I started so I could easily refer back to them. I've found so much usable information here, and people here are always willing to help.
  I have never actually seen a bandsaw mill in person. Everything I know on the subject, which isn't much, has come from this site, youtube, and others online. There is a guy in our Church that has a hobby mill and does a fair amount of sawing. He's invited me to go see his setup, but we haven't made that connection yet. I'm sure we'll get together eventually. In case he see's this post, Hi Joe. smiley_wavy  I tried using a chainsaw mill once. Results were not what I was looking for. It was also a too loud and physical for me to be productive. Guess I'm getting older. 
 

I was in the same boat; I had only seen brief glimpses of band sawmills at the farm shows I attend. Then I decided to build one. I didn't even do much research before I dove in.

I have the adjustable side a tube in tube but I added a skate that rides against the sawframe with bearings. when the blade is not tensioned it hangs free when it is tensioned it keeps the guide in the same plane every time.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20180406_181551.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523295965)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20180406_181626.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523296204)
 

the bolt is a quick adjust for height. It ended up working well since I needed to offset the wheels to clear the tensioner.

Whats funny is I hardly ever move that guide. Either all my logs are close enough to the same size or I have found that moving it does not seem to affect the cut quality.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 08, 2023, 10:24:39 AM
Whats funny is I hardly ever move that guide. Either all my logs are close enough to the same size or I have found that moving it does not seem to affect the cut quality.

That's a unique fix.
I've been wondering about that too. I've seen a couple builds where the blade guides are not adjustable at all. I wondered if it was really that big of a deal. I do understand the why it's adjustable, but how often does it really get used? Would a couple bolt on locations suffice?

I realize that you are discussing the blade guide arm in/out, but I wanted to dip back to your blade guide pictures in Reply #30 above.

I could not determine from the pictures that you have 8 way adjustments on the guide rollers. 

Up/down, in/out, vertical tilt up/down, and horizontal tilt left/right.  I can see the up/down and in/out.   I think that I see two of the tilts but I was not sure about all 4 tilts?

Another thing to remember is that the blade must be pulled through the log, not pushed.

Quote from: Magicman on February 08, 2023, 04:37:51 PM
I realize that you are discussing the blade guide arm in/out, but I wanted to dip back to your blade guide pictures in Reply #30 above.

I could not determine from the pictures that you have 8 way adjustments on the guide rollers.  

Up/down, in/out, vertical tilt up/down, and horizontal tilt left/right.  I can see the up/down and in/out.   I think that I see two of the tilts but I was not sure about all 4 tilts?

Another thing to remember is that the blade must be pulled through the log, not pushed.

Hi Magic,
  I think I have that part covered. My mounts have the in/out and up/down adjustments. I bit the bullet and bought the Cooks blade guides that have the other adjusters built in. That order hurt, this was supposed to be a cheap diy project. And yes, the wife did notice the bill. The blade rotation is correct too. Looking at the business end of the saw head the engine turns CCW and the sawdust exits to the right under the drive wheel.
  I remember at least one post I was reading that was built the other way around and it did cause problems. I didn't want to make that mistake.

ljohnsaw and Crusarius,
  I worked on the guides a little more this morning before the weather turned sour. I'm far enough along to tell what I have so far is going to be a real pain to work with. I'm going to have to rethink this and see if I have something else on hand I can use to make this work better. I think you guys have the right idea, using bearings to hold or help the slider. I may go ahead and tack it in place to confirm just how bad it's going to be to adjust. It's not going to be smooth for sure
  There are so many things I would do differently if I had to start over. I doubt I'll ever get to version 2.0 though. I'm just going to be cutting for use on the farm, not for sale. If I can get this working it's heavy enough and simple enough to last the rest of my lifetime.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 08, 2023, 05:01:43 PMI bit the bullet and bought the Cooks blade guides that have the other adjusters built in.

Wonderful.  Your blade guide choice was a very good investment.  Proper blade guide alignment is paramount.  

Will you be able to capture some floaters when the river is up?  I sawed for a guy that lassoed floaters, corralled them up, and tied them to trees so that he could recover them when the water went down.  He paneled his entire home with floater lumber. LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108164.msg1688267#msg1688267)

Quote from: Magicman on February 08, 2023, 05:39:38 PM
Will you be able to capture some floaters when the river is up?  I sawed for a guy that lassoed floaters, corralled them up, and tied them to trees so that he could recover them when the water went down.  He paneled his entire home with floater lumber. LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108164.msg1688267#msg1688267)

No, I don't think so. I'm not much of river rat. I like dry land. We're fairly close to the river as the crow flies. We used to put in on the Buffalo in Fort Adams and fish it over to the Mississippi. I think that's all silted in now. I haven't been there in years.
  We've got a pretty good mixture of native hardwoods and planted pines. The pines were thinned this past summer. There's quite a few they damaged that need to be removed. That will probably be my learning logs. I've got a tall sweetgum and what we call a pig nut (I think others call them bitter pecan) right at my house that need to come down. Storms blew them over last year, but they are hung up and still alive. From what I've read I need to go ahead and get the gum on the ground and let it dry as a log for several months before trying to mill it. The pig nut is leaning against my container. I topped it last year but decided to leave the roots in the ground until the mill is finished. 

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 08, 2023, 06:37:26 PMFrom what I've read I need to go ahead and get the gum on the ground and let it dry as a log for several months before trying to mill it.

Probably best to drag it over to the river and let it float away! ;) It would be a good testing log because, from what I've read, not great behaving lumber would come from it.  Also, not very rot resistant it it gets wet.

I dislike sawing any of the trees that you mentioned.  Planted Pine with those ½" growth rings will give you misery with movement as they are sawn.  Sweetgum and Pecan lumber will give you misery as it dries.  You still need to saw it but just be aware that it has a mind of it's own.   :-X

Older growth Pine, Cedar, Oak, Tulip Poplar, Walnut and Cypress are joys to saw.  :)

I reckon that I am getting ahead of your build and already have you sawing.  thumbs-up

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 08, 2023, 07:25:20 PMProbably best to drag it over to the river and let it float away! ;) It would be a good testing log because, from what I've read, not great behaving lumber would come from it.  Also, not very rot resistant it it gets wet.

You're probably right. I just hate to waste anything. I have no idea what I would do with it. We don't cut them for firewood because they tend to pop sparks out of the fireplace. They're not good for construction. But they are EVERYWHERE! Let the sun hit a bare spot of ground and up pops a sweetgum tree.

Spruce is my biggest nemesis. hardest wood I have sawn. but by hardest I mean most difficult. I can do hickory, that is a dream to me compared to the stupid spruce.

Quote from: Magicman on February 08, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
I dislike sawing any of the trees that you mentioned.  Planted Pine with those ½" growth rings will give you misery with movement as they are sawn.  Sweetgum and Pecan lumber will give you misery as it dries.  You still need to saw it but just be aware that it has a mind of it's own.   :-X

Older growth Pine, Cedar, Oak, Tulip Poplar, Walnut and Cypress are joys to saw.  :)

There was only a hand full pine trees on the place when the pasture was planted in pines. All the old wood in mostly hardwoods. I'm not great at tree identification, but we do have oaks, willows, ash, hackberry, bay, magnolia, and a few others I don't know. Plus of course sweetgum. Sweetgums everywhere. There used to be sassafras on the place. There's a rock hard stump behind my mothers garden that my dad cut over thirty years ago. I wish we had more sassafras.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 08, 2023, 07:53:56 PM
Spruce is my biggest nemesis. hardest wood I have sawn. but by hardest I mean most difficult. I can do hickory, that is a dream to me compared to the stupid spruce.

Would you like to swap some spruce for some sweetgum? :D

As strange as it may sound, Swetgum will make board & batten siding, but do not allow any roof runoff splash up.  Saw it and put it up green with the bark side of the lumber toward the inside of the building.  Nail it and the battens down the center of the boards.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5630.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1548718533)
 
Sweetgum will also make beam/timbers but again, no earth contact nor splash up.  Saw one pith centered timber from each log.  I have sawed several thousand of them.   That is over 200 Sweetgum logs on the right of the sawmill.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5648.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1549118101)
 Sweetgum timbers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5668.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1549577364)
 Sweetgum logs on the left, slabs in the center, and some timbers on the right.

OK, I'll let you get back to building the sawmill.  :)

Quote from: Magicman on February 08, 2023, 09:18:46 PM
OK, I'll let you get back to building the sawmill.  :)

I wish I could. It's storming here and we're under tornado warnings. But you're probably getting some of this too.
  If I did use the sweetgum for siding what would you suggest sealing it with?

After it's been up for a year and dried, I would see nothing wrong with spraying it down with Thompson's Waterseal or something similar.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 08, 2023, 08:06:10 PM

Quote from: Crusarius on February 08, 2023, 07:53:56 PM
Spruce is my biggest nemesis. hardest wood I have sawn. but by hardest I mean most difficult. I can do hickory, that is a dream to me compared to the stupid spruce.

Would you like to swap some spruce for some sweetgum? :D

sure, do you deliver? :)

Quote from: Crusarius on February 09, 2023, 10:17:20 AM

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 08, 2023, 08:06:10 PMWould you like to swap some spruce for some sweetgum? :D

sure, do you deliver? :)

I don't think I want to drive to NY. It's too cold up there. That's why I live so far south. We rarely see snow in my neck of the woods.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 07, 2023, 09:47:36 PMI did the sliding tube in tube like you have and found it to be difficult get and keep aligned.

 I went ahead and welded the blade guides on. You are correct. The way I have them now is not going to work. I may try to add some bearings to my slide tube and see if that helps. There's just too much slack in the tubes. I added more guide bolts, but when you tighten them enough to remove the slack they create too much bind to slide the bar. I'm going to leave it as is for now and come back to it once I get closer to finished.
 I'm thinking about adding a section of 3/4" allthread suspended in bearings with a crank on the end to move the slider in and out. I'll have to address the slack problem first. I'm pretty sure I have some skateboard bearings around here somewhere. That might be what I need.

On my sliding tube in tube, I welded on two 1/2" nuts on the back side.  In retrospect, I should have done them on the corner or at least the top.  I then had a couple big hand knobs to tighten things down when adjusted to position needed.  It worked but not convenient when the saw was running.  Basically, I had to hold the bar down with one hand while tightening the hold downs with my other hand.

Take a look at my new setup again.  Actually really easy to fab up, really easy to align and pretty cheap to make.  I was really surprised how stout it is.  You could just add a knob to tighten down on the bar to lock it in place.

I still have the tube in tube. The only reason I added the support arm was because I added the dual blade length option. the adjustable guide is about 30" long and at that length the 1.5x1.5 flexed enough that every time I moved it the board had a different taper. Adding the support arm fixed that problem and kept it at the same height for all positions.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 09, 2023, 09:42:58 PMTake a look at my new setup again. Actually really easy to fab up, really easy to align and pretty cheap to make. I was really surprised how stout it is. You could just add a knob to tighten down on the bar to lock it in place.

 I'll have to look up your v2. I was looking at you revisions page last night. I couldn't figure out how big the actuator itself is. There is less than 2" between between the sidewall of my tires and the frames cross member. I have enough bolts in it now that I could move it to position and tighten it down. I'll probably do that for a while, but I know that's going to get old. I ended up with two bolts on the corner, two on the front side near the top and to on the underside near the rear. It still wouldn't take the slack out without making the guide immovable.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 10, 2023, 09:55:32 AMThe only reason I added the support arm was because I added the dual blade length option.

 I read that as "Dual Blade option." I was getting excited about a dual blade band saw. I had to go back and reread it a couple times before I caught on.
 I should have taken a picture of my guides today, but I didn't think about it. I've got a couple of ideas rolling around in my mind, but I think I can use it temporarily like it is by moving it into place and tightening it down to remove the slack. Ultimately, I'll have to fix it.

Track build part 1.

  One of my brothers had a couple 2"x3"x24' thin wall tube that he didn't need and offered to donate it to the sawmill project. When he came to visit he cut them into @ 8' lengths so he could haul them in the bed of his pickup. I wish they were thicker, but that's what I used for the base of the track.
  Now I had to build a flat spot to build the track on. I tried digging out to lay some cross ties on the ground to make a level bed. I found out real quick that I had too much hill to work with for that. I had some short pieces of treated 4x6 and 4x4 from other projects. Some of it was too warped and twisted to be of any real use. I decided I could use the left over treated 4x4s and 4x6 as posts cut them to level then build the tracks on top of them.

  I laid out a row of post roughly 4' apart then squared up the second row and laid them out. The small pink ribbons on the ground are the center of each hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Create_level_spot_to_work_on_track_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676074386)


  I used the post hole digger on the tractor to dig the holes. Even after putting new cutters on the auger, it had trouble going through the hard packed dry dirt. I had to resort to breaking  chunks out of the bottoms of several holes with a 16 pound prybar, but I finally got them dug and cleaned out. Then it was just a matter of setting the posts as straight and square as possible and cutting them off level. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Create_level_spot_to_work_on_track_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676074368)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Create_level_spot_to_work_on_track_6.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676074379)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Create_level_spot_to_work_on_track_12.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676074396)


It was a lot of work for a temporary work space. But it's done. Here's the two rails with some emt conduit for spacers. I change the conduit out for heavy walled pipe before welding it together.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676075093)

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 10, 2023, 06:01:23 PMI couldn't figure out how big the actuator itself is.

OK, here are some more pictures but please excuse the background clutter and the rusty blade :-X

The ram is fully extended.  It has 26.5" of travel - less than my mill is capable of but gets me close enough on the smaller stuff.  Still about 12" or so opening.  There is just a link from the end of the rod to the end of the guide to account for any deviation between the guide tracking and the parallel-ness, or lack there of, of the actuator.  It doesn't look it but that 1" square tube is really stiff in those V-groove rollers.

My bandmill thread has the details of the V-groove wheel mount and adjustments.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-02-10_17-25-13.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1676079236)
U-bolts hold the actuator to the angled braces on the guide arm support.  The white Zip ties are just holding the electrical wire up.  Tight quarters but it works.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-02-10_17-25-59.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1676079233)
The only drawback is that the actuator "case" sticks out all the time.  You can see the end of the blade guide rod below it and next to the blade cover.  It could go that much further but the actuator is too short of throw.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-02-10_17-26-27.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1676079235)
 
If I could find a slow 12v motor, I might replace that with a capstan setup with a cable attached to both ends of my blade guide rod (1" tube).

On the Woodmizer mills, one of the V-groove wheels is powered and when it hits end of travel, I think it just slips so nothing gets hurt.  If I had room, maybe a rubber wheel riding on the rod or one of the wheels would work as well?

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 10, 2023, 08:48:27 PMOK, here are some more pictures but please excuse the background clutter and the rusty blade

No problem with the clutter. I deal with plenty of it here. The pictures cleared it up for me. I'm not going to have room for an actuator like that, but I may be able to adapt the roller idea and slide it manually.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 10, 2023, 07:08:40 PM

Quote from: Crusarius on February 10, 2023, 09:55:32 AMThe only reason I added the support arm was because I added the dual blade length option.

I read that as "Dual Blade option." I was getting excited about a dual blade band saw. I had to go back and reread it a couple times before I caught on.
I should have taken a picture of my guides today, but I didn't think about it. I've got a couple of ideas rolling around in my mind, but I think I can use it temporarily like it is by moving it into place and tightening it down to remove the slack. Ultimately, I'll have to fix it.

I did think about the dual blade option. But in the end I chose to just stick to the single blade but I can run a 158" or a 176" gives me up to 41" between the guides.

That bed design looks so much better. I think you will be very happy with that.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 10, 2023, 10:42:59 PM
That bed design looks so much better. I think you will be very happy with that.

I was worried the 2x3 stock might be too light. I plan to have it fully supported when it's moved to it's permanent location and I'll have supports under the bunks as well. However I'll have to cut all that timber on the mill before I can move it. It's in a terrible spot to try to use it for anything. Everything would have to be loaded from the end of the track. :) Very close quarters.

You should have plenty of Black Locust for your timbers.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 11, 2023, 07:51:26 AMIt's in a terrible spot to try to use it for anything. Everything would have to be loaded from the end of the track.

I was wondering about that!

Quote from: Magicman on February 11, 2023, 07:56:14 AM
You should have plenty of Black Locust for your timbers.

Unfortunately no. I do have a very few Honey Locust. We used to get Black Locust from a neighboring property, but we don't have access to that anymore.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 11, 2023, 10:06:06 AMI was wondering about that!

It's out of the weather and I have electricity for the welder. Eventually it will be moved behind our container. I plan to build a roof over the container with the tractor and implements on the up hill side and Sawmill and walk in cooler on the lower end. I think I may have more projects than ever now that I'm retired. 

Track build conclusion.

Steel Pipe tack welded.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135325)


Welded all the way around each pipe end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_5.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135325)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_6.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135414)

Cut the channel material for the cap strips.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135411)

Making sure my angle iron for the wheels is straight. It's hard to see the string stretched tightly down the center of the angle iron.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_13.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135439)


All welded up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_16.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676135491)


That pretty much brings us up to date with the build so far. I have the blade guides installed, but will have to rework them later. Right now I'm working on changing out the v-groove wheels to make the mill easier to roll.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 11, 2023, 12:15:54 PMUnfortunately no. I do have a very few Honey Locust. We used to get Black Locust from a neighboring property

I am very surprised, and Honey Locust will not work.  Being able to saw might attract some interest and lead you to someone that has Black Locust.

That's a shame. There's a big Honey Locust right where the mill will end up. It's going to have to be cut. Would it make good construction lumber?

It is prone to twist, etc. as it dries.  I would not use it for framing lumber but it could make some nice wall paneling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_4920.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1535748201)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_4921.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1535748150)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_4939.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1535748925)
 It will also make some nice slabs for benches, etc.

I would not worry about full support under the rails. I don't know if you get cold and freezing in MS but if you do I definitely would not do full support. Having full support will allow sawdust to build up around the frame causing rot and rust. if its only supported every so many feet you will have much less issues with piles of slimy sawdust.

I have a few spots on my sawmill where I gets piles and it can get really nasty if I do not clean them before I end for the day. Worst case scenario for me is the pile freezes and the backstops don't move.

Quote from: Magicman on February 11, 2023, 02:10:30 PMI am very surprised, and Honey Locust will not work.  Being able to saw might attract some interest and lead you to someone that has Black Locust.

When you have a mill you have the opportunity to do a bit of "wheeling and dealing". There have been many discussions about "sawing on shares". It's an option if someone has logs you want. Work out a deal based on the log value and your sawing costs. Don't do a deal on logs you have no use or market for, but if you can both come out ahead on the deal, then go for it. 

Quote from: Crusarius on February 11, 2023, 10:25:00 PMI don't know if you get cold and freezing in MS

He will never have to worry about the ground freezing. :D

I thought that to living in AZ. but every once in a while, you say the wrong thing to the significant other and its amazing how cold everything gets :)

We get a very little really cold weather in south MS. Severe cold for us is the low 20's for more than a few hours at a time. If we ever had the ground freeze more than a fraction of an inch it would be like a new ice age for us. bon_fire

Quote from: Crusarius on February 11, 2023, 10:25:00 PM
I would not worry about full support under the rails. I don't know if you get cold and freezing in MS but if you do I definitely would not do full support. Having full support will allow sawdust to build up around the frame causing rot and rust. if its only supported every so many feet you will have much less issues with piles of slimy sawdust.

Sawdust buildup shouldn't be a problem. My property is on a hill. The sawdust will discharge on the downhill side of the mill. I hope to capture most of the it to compost for the garden and raised beds. The mill will be on pilings similar to the ones it's sitting on now except larger. Each post sitting on a concrete pad. What I had in mind was something like a timber frame sitting on top and pegged into the posts. There would be two long timbers under the runners of the frame and every bunk would have a shorter beam fitted into the long ones. That should keep the weight of the logs off of my too thin tracks.

Quote from: Magicman on February 11, 2023, 09:36:10 PMit could make some nice wall paneling

That's an idea. I have a couple unfinished rooms that could use some paneling.

oh you will get sawdust buildup. all it takes is a log :) I have a very similar setup and still get piles of sawdust built up on my mill.

Quote from: Magicman on February 11, 2023, 09:36:10 PMIt is prone to twist, etc. as it dries. I would not use it for framing lumber but it could make some nice wall paneling.

I won't get to work on the mill today, I'm helping a family member move some shop equipment from Natchez to Pickneyville. I would like to get a little more information about sawing paneling for inside walls. Would I just flat saw the whole log? How thick would it need to be? Would I need to cut a tung and grove or maybe a ship lap edge? What's the best way to cut the edge? Table saw or router? You really got my minds wheels churning with that one. What about that sweet gum we were talking about? If I can get it dried flat would it make a good interior paneling and stay flat?
  It will be a while before I can actually saw it, just trying to get it in my mind how it's supposed to work.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 12, 2023, 06:12:02 PMoh you will get sawdust buildup.

At this point I'd love to have that problem. That would mean the sawmill was finished and rolling out lumber.smiley_roller

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 13, 2023, 07:39:04 AMI would like to get a little more information about sawing paneling for inside walls.

Generally spiral grain species such as Sweetgun, Sycamore, & Honey Locust will dry flatter if quarter sawn rather than flat sawn but of course the 2" slabs that I pictured above were flat sawn.  The SYP and ERC paneling that I used in my Cabin Addition (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=47709.msg686238#msg686238) was flat sawn and tongue & groove.

Magic,
  The cabin addition looked great. I was hoping to find out how you cut the tung and grooves for the paneling. Looks like you outsourced that portion of the operation. I could probably cut ship lap grooves on the table saw with a dado blade. I see there are tung and groove router bits on the market. Would that be an option for a room or two of paneling, or would that be too much work for a router and/or the bits to hold up to?

  Anyone else have any experience with a home spun tung and groove option?

I cut all of the T&G with my router:  LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=47709.msg826673#msg826673)

And nobody said that it was going to be easy: LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=47709.msg893135#msg893135)

In your defense, that is a very long topic with 43 pages and 841 replies.  It was easier for me to find it because I kinda knew where they were by looking at the building progress.

I recently built something and tried shiplap for the first time. I don't have the equipment needed to do tung and groove but I do have a cheap HF table saw so all I needed was to buy a dado blade. I was happy with the results and will likely use shiplap again in the future. With shiplap you do have the option to still but each piece against each other or you can leave a groove between. It all depends on how wide you cut the step and how you nail down. 
I would try it and see if you like it. 

I have done several building projects with T&G lumber that was made on my tablesaw with only a dado blade.  Three passes and done.

Guess I never thought of it but ya, I guess you could do tung and groove with a dado blade.....

Quote from: Magicman on February 14, 2023, 08:27:28 AMI cut all of the T&G with my router

 Sorry, I had to read through it in several sessions. I must have accidently missed that page. But, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Quote from: Magicman on February 14, 2023, 01:20:29 PMI have done several building projects with T&G lumber that was made on my tablesaw with only a dado blade. Three passes and done.

 So the router was the better way to go?

Quote from: fluidpowerpro on February 14, 2023, 01:09:43 PMall I needed was to buy a dado blade.

 I've never made any shiplap, but I have used a dado to build some drawers and some simple baseboards for an old house we once lived in.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 14, 2023, 08:33:23 PMSo the router was the better way to go?

No, but it is OK for short/small projects.  

I made the T&G on all of the SYP that I used for flooring and wall paneling in the living room addition.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0064.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1431130487)
 and

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0065.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1431130498)
 
The Ash flooring that I used in the bedroom addition was done by the mill shop.  By then I was wanting to finish in the quickest way possible.  To me, that flat sawn Ash is some purdy stuff!!

Those two projects rolled into one took about 5 years.  

Quote from: Magicman on February 14, 2023, 09:29:47 PMThe Ash flooring that I used in the bedroom addition was done by the mill shop.

That's probably where I got the idea that you had outsourced the tung and groove process. I bet I missed a page or two.

Yup, when I thought about the Ash flooring I knew what you had seen.  My mind at that time was on the initial living room addition which was all SYP that I milled the hard way.

  FF has become my go to destination when I have a few minutes of internet time to spend. So much information to take in. I love reading all the diffferent build threads. I always learn something new.
  I read a few threads on sawing wood shingles. That got me thinking about my sawmill/container/tractor shed build. Can anyone tell me from experience how long oak or pine shingles would last on an open pole building? I'm over 60 now. Can't imagine the Good Lord has that many productive years left for me here.
  I really need to finish my mill, too many projects are pilling up in my mind.

I would only use heartwood White or Post Oak for shingles.  Sassafras probably could also be used.

Old growth Heart Pine and Heart Cypress was once used but we don't have any of that anymore. 

  How long would expect an oak shingle to last? I've seen where people are cutting wood shingles for projects, but no long term data on how they hold up. We may have a few Sassafras. I know there used to be some here, but I don't know of any right off. I guess you could apply a sealer to shingles like you would a deck, but that would require re-coating every year. I'm already past the point of wanting to climb up on the roof every year.
 My Uncle grew up on this place. He said the black locust were used for fence posts before metal post came out. We stopped raising cattle 15-20 years ago. The old fence is in pretty bad shape now. But, you can still find the top section of locust post hanging on the wire. I guess that's why they're so scarce now. I remember going to the neighbors property with Grandad when I was a kid to cut some locust for posts.
  I hope to get back to the sawmill build tomorrow. Today will be spent processing wild hog for the freezer.

I can not answer about longevity but using White/Post Oak or Sassafras and especially treating them each year, they certainly should last as long as conventional shingles.

I'm shooting from the hip because I have no experience with wood shingles, but am intrigued.

 A couple pictures of the blade guides as they are right now. Sorry for poor camera work. I'm very disappointment with the way the  moveable guide works. I plan to redesign this when the mill is operational.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Guides_v1_0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676766789)

 I may try adding a bearing to run on the back of the beam behind the top 90 to help remove the play at the blade.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Back_of_blade_guide.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676766857)

  These are the old cast wheels with needle bearings. I was not satisfied with the amount of play in the bearings so I only mounted them temporarily until I could find replacements.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Fixed_guide_and_old_cast_wheels.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676766806)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_Cast_Wheels.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676766826)


  These are the replacement ball bearing wheels. I plan to weld or bolt these rolling plates under the existing mill feet after I cut off the old cast wheels. I didn't get to weld the wheel brackets today. Everything is just sitting in place. Hopefully I will have a chance to weld up the wheel sub-frame and get them attached to the mill Tuesday. For some reason life keeps interfering with my sawmill time.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_wheels.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676766821)

With the current cast wheels is the blade going to hit them?

With the new wheels is your blade going to hit them? if not is the bed going to have to be up another 5" to clear the wheels?

Quote from: Crusarius on February 18, 2023, 08:08:52 PMWith the current cast wheels is the blade going to hit them?

The blade will clear the wheels alright but it is a little close. I do think I'll probably need to raise the bed though. My minimum cut is going to be over two inches.

I have a bit of experience with wooden shingles.

Things that will make them last are plenty of air circulation- open purlins, not solid sheathing.

Overlap four times.  7" exposure requires 28" long shingle.  The old roofs I've found were overlapped only 3 times.  Four times exponentially diminishes the possibility of a split shingle causing a leak, and allows you to catch 2 purling with fasteners, whereas a 3 overlap only allows one.  One problem with a single fastener is that anyone who ever gets on the roof has to know how to walk on them.  Walking on an old roof has ended more than length of life.  They also had to hand split them.  It's much easier to split a 21" shingle than a 28" one, whereas with a bandsaw it makes little difference.  The appearance of the finished roof is the same.

The steeper the roof the better.  6-1/2 in 12 is as high a pitch as you can go and the shingle stay in place without having to hold it.  Most of the old roofs around here were built to that pitch.

Not under trees so it always stays clear of leaves.

Not too wide so splitting is not a worry.

Only fasten in the middle with one fastener so it can expand and contract as it pleases.  This is the way the really old roofs I've found still shedding water were put on.

Done this way with good wood, the fasteners have limited the life of the roof.  I use stainless steel medium crown staples in 2-1/2" and 2" lengths.  The long shingles allow you to catch two different purlins along the middle of the shingle.

A sawmill is a slow method to make shingles.  Using a 24" vertical bandsaw with a sled on it I made for making shingles, we can go from boards stacked on a trailer to a pickup truck load of shingles in about an hour.  That's with me and two helpers, including ripping the sapwood off the boards as the first step.

You can find pictures on my website.  The Cedar shake roof on our house is 43 years old, and still has a lot of life in it.  That was before I made shingles myself.  Put on according the the Shake and Shingle Bureau, you will be lucky to get 30 years out of any wooden shingle roof.

We found one  original 1850 wooden shingle roof under a 1982 installed Terne tin roof that had been the only roof on that house for 132 years.  Only the old hand forged nails were failing.

Find the page on my website titled   Cypress Shingles.    I'm not sure if I'm not supposed to post a link here.  Google might be the quickest way to find it.  There are a bunch of pictures, but the software the website was built with is no longer supported, so I can't correct any errors it's accumulated.

My final cut thickness is set to 3/4". I have stops set so the blade stops at the minimum height so I cannot cut into the cant holding points.

Since I have started playing a lot with my CNC and laser engraver, I have been making a lot of thin wood like Doc Henderson does. But mine is usually just 1/2" thick boards. That way I can still run them through the planer to clean them up before laser engraving.

at one point I built a cookie clamp for making cookies but the holding power was not up to my standards so it turned back into parts. One of these days I will build another one. I really want to be able to do long oval cookies for signs and stuff.

Your going to find that a 2" last cut is more than you want. You might as well address it now.

Quote from: Tom King on February 19, 2023, 09:19:19 AMI have a bit of experience with wooden shingles.

Great information. I'll look up your site.
I don't have any Cypress to cut. How would White Oak hold up in the hot humid south?

Quote from: Crusarius on February 19, 2023, 10:11:55 AMMy final cut thickness is set to 3/4".

Quote from: fluidpowerpro on February 19, 2023, 01:06:14 PMYour going to find that a 2" last cut is more than you want.

Hi Guys,
 I think you're right. I know I could just put a board on the bottom to cut the last one but that's going to get old fast. This is what you get when you have no plans and no experience with the thing you're trying to build.:D
 I'd think 3/4" would be about right for the last board. I've got plenty of room to raise the bed so it's not too big of a deal. It will probably mean a run the steel supplier at some point, unless something usable turns up. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
 This has been a fun project. I've learned a lot along the way. If I ever build a 2.0 it should go much smoother. Right now, I'm looking forward to sawing some logs.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 19, 2023, 03:10:35 PMHow would White Oak hold up in the hot humid south?

Yes.

Hey guys,
  I'm still rolling around ideas for my moveable blade guide. Based loosely on what ljohnsaw created, does anybody have any idea how something like these linear rails would hold up in a sawmill type environment? I'm not sure about the rules for posting links so I'll just say, I see the smiling "A" store has "2pc SBR20-800mm Linear Slide Guide Rail with 4Pcs SBR20UU Bearing Block, Linear Sliding Guide-way Length 31.5 inch(800mm) for Fully supported Shaft Rod" for less than $50.00. Definitely not made in the USA. They claim to be rust resistant. The mill won't be out in the rain, but it won't be totally enclosed either. Basically just a roof with the container making a wall on the east side and possibly a partial wall on the North and South sides. The container is 40' long and my mill is only about 24'  long so the saw head would sit closer to the center of the roof than the end.

I've built several things with those lineal bearing rods.  One is on a tile cutter and the other is for the shingle sled.  I haven't had any trouble with rust, but they get coated good with CRC 3.36 when put away.  I can't remember what size rods I used, but I'm thinking they were larger than 20mm.

White Oak heart should last good if all the factors in my previous post on shingles are met.  I know of some steep roofs in the mountains that lasted over 100 years with White Oak shingles.

We have White Oak siding on our house and barn, put up in 1980, and it's all still hard as a rock.  It never had any treatment on it, and gets pressure washed about every 10 years.

whatever you use you can't just rely on the cantilever to keep them straight. you can but even 20mm hardened linear bearings will bend. they bend a lot easier than you would expect.

Ljohnsons setup is the best thing you could do if you do not want to have some sort of support arm going to the sawing frame.

On my V2.5 I have pictured using his guide for the moveable side.

  I do have 4 small v groove wheels. I think they were 2". Maybe I can work those in with the 1.5" square tube I have on hand. That may be heavy enough to work without additional support. I was thinking about a linear rail in front and one behind the beam. But it would be next to impossible to drill and tap mounting holes behind the front rail.

That WILL be plenty stout enough.  My bar is 1" thin wall, probably .120 or even thinner.  It works great.  The farther apart you can mount the wheels, the better.  Maybe it flexes up at full extension but I have it adjusted that it maintains the distance perfectly.  If you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.  The mill is sitting in my driveway for the winter.  Getting another 3 to 4 feet of snow by Thursday up the hill :-\ 

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 20, 2023, 08:38:27 PMIf you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.

 I couldn't see the whole plate where the bearings mounted, but I think I understand what you did. Four bearings two top and two bottom. I can't tell how far apart they are but that will be dictated by available space. Then I need some way to adjust how tightly they grip the tube and maybe the angle that it crosses the track.

You got it.  What I did is make four identical adjuster arms that are 3" long x 1" wide and 3/8" thick.  That gives enough material to thread the 3/8" holes for bolts.  At one end is a bolt that allows it to pivot.  In the middle is a threaded hole to mount the wheel.  At the other end an adjuster screw pushes the bar towards the square stock arm.  This is mounted to a 1/4" plate that is 13" long (what I had on had).  That puts the wheels at 11" apart.  The adjuster arms are on the backside of the plate with the wheels on the front side.  Where the wheel bolt passes through 1/4" plate, it is an arced slot to allow movement.

In use, I tighten one pair to grip the arm.  Both the pivot bolt and the wheel bolt are tightened and lock the adjuster arm in place.  Then I tighten the bottom wheel of the other pair to raise the arm up to run parallel to the bunks.  Then I tighten the top wheel down to the arm.  Then, play with the tightness of both top wheels to eliminate any play/looseness.  It just plain works really, really well!

Based on the amount of discussion on this topic I take it that the slide mechanism for the adjustable guide needs to be a substantial mechanism. On the other hand, I question the need for bearings and adjustments because on my saws, both from Hudson, the adjustable guide is simply accomplished by square tubes sliding in and out of each other. It has a locking bolt positioned on the corner of the outside tube so when locked, the inside tube is pushed to the corner of the outside tube. I acknowledge that Hudson is not considered a Cadillac of saws, but the adjustable guide works quite well. Maybe this design is possible because Hudson uses guide shoes instead of rollers?

I think it comes down to ease of manufacture.  For the Hudson, I'm sure there is a jig that holds the parts in alignment before welding so the guide bar runs true.  Something a little more difficult for us shade tree mechanics to accomplish.  We're talking about a fraction of a degree - something that weld bending from heat can influence. 

My old tube-n-tube I used some washers to shim my mounts.  Worked good enough but sliding the tube-n-tube was neither quick (loosen two lock bolts, slide, tighten), convenient (under the saw frame) nor easy (not wise to do with the blade running).  With the V-roller design, I just flip a switch for direction and let go when it's where I want it.  And I can do it as I'm sawing, something I couldn't do with the tube-n-tube.

I agree with the welding concern. Mine just has one locking bolt with T handle on it and I position it with the saw running, no problem. The more I think about it, I think the shoe guides have a lot to do with it. Because the guide is on both sides of the blade, it follows the blade while it's being adjusted. When adjusted properly, the guides do not put any pressure on the blade like roller guides. This means the final position of the guide is not as critical.
I know there are a lot of "shoe guide" haters out there but mine work good and I do cut straight lumber.

Quote from: fluidpowerpro on February 21, 2023, 10:57:29 AMmine work good and I do cut straight lumber

That's what it's all about. 8)

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 20, 2023, 08:38:27 PM
That WILL be plenty stout enough.  My bar is 1" thin wall, probably .120 or even thinner.  It works great.  The farther apart you can mount the wheels, the better.  Maybe it flexes up at full extension but I have it adjusted that it maintains the distance perfectly.  If you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.  The mill is sitting in my driveway for the winter.  Getting another 3 to 4 feet of snow by Thursday up the hill :-\

I think I have some 1" thin wall too. Would you happen to have a part number for the bearings you used? I found the 2" v groove wheels but they are junk. The hole for the bearings was machined too large in all four wheels and the bearing just wobbles around and falls out of the hole. 

 I was able to get the new wheels under the mill today. I didn't weld it solid in case I didn't like the outcome. I think these are going to work. It pushes much easier now and there is no side to side play when you push the mill from one corner. It feels solid and rolls easy.

This one shows the band clearance behind the wheel. With the blade guide mounted over the mill foot like this my last cut would be almost 2 1/2". I could gain a little extra depth by moving the guide to the inside edge of the post. The bottom adjusting bolt on the guide is sitting on the frame. Another option would be to add some 1.5" square tube to the top of the bunks.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230221_210529002_MP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677019007)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230221_210708810.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677018965)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230221_210554691.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677019526)

you are going to also want rail scrapers.

Quote from: Crusarius on February 21, 2023, 08:14:14 PM
you are going to also want rail scrapers.

I left enough room on the end to mount some if it becomes a problem and I needed something for the track stops to hit besides the wheels. I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I was thinking about a piece of pliable plastic or thick rubber with a 90° v cut in it just touching the rail if it comes to that.

Quote from: RetiredTech on February 21, 2023, 05:22:58 PMWould you happen to have a part number for the bearings you used?

I got them on eBay.  Here is the listing title.
Quality RM2-2RS 3/8" V Groove Roller Bearing Rubber Sealed Line Track (8PCS)

Search that on eBay.  I paid $24.95 two years ago for a pack of 8 from VBX.  They are now $49.95!  3/8" is the hole diameter.  At the bottom of the VBX listing is another that only wants $29.95 for the same 8 rollers.

As far as scrapers go, cut a piece of plastic from a barrel.  Make it fairly close to the right cutout and mount it so it rubs.  It will wear to conform perfectly.

Thanks, I'll see what I can find.

I didn't get to work on the mill today. I had some tractor maintenance to do and tried to install my new third function kit. Unfortunately it looks like Branson made some design changes without without letting WR Long know about it. The Third function kit is in preparation for my new Wicked Root Grapple. It should be useful for moving logs, but I mainly need it for clearing out mock orange bushes, small trees, cutting firewood, and cleaning up behind the people that thinned our pines.
Old Folk need all the help we can get.  smiley_old_guy

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 21, 2023, 09:44:10 PMQuality RM2-2RS 3/8"

 I ordered 4 of the bearings from Amazon. I don't really need 8 of them. Hopefully I can scrounge up some of the other materials.
 Worked on the tractor again today. Had to make a mount for the hydraulic valve on the third function kit. Finally got it all working.

Quote from: Magicman on February 08, 2023, 09:18:46 PMSwetgum will make board & batten siding, but do not allow any roof runoff splash up.

 I have a large shed with very little overhang on the East and West gable ends of the building. It's a pole shed with no floor. If I put a treated timber just above the ground and stop the siding 2-3" above ground level could I use the Sweetgum to close the ends up, or would that be too much water exposure?

I'd do like someone posted elsewhere.  Do 4' of steel roofing on the bottom half.  Still have the nice look of the wood above but never have to worry about rot!  Even 2' would work.

  I didn't think about that, but that ought to work for the ground splatter. The rain will definitely hit it though and I've read a lot about how easily Sweetgum rots. There's less than a foot of overhang on the ends. Should I be worried about that? 

  I was able to put in a few minutes on the mill today. My tires were pretty bad out of balance. Actually it was more than just the tires. When I was welding the axles together I noticed the hubs themselves were out of balance enough to settle to the same position if you turned them either direction slightly. Add to that the wheels, tires, and my homemade pulley mount on the drive hub and it was pretty bad. I had left the band on it and tensioned when I was working on the blade guides last and was dreading having to readjust everything. I remembered reading where someone else with a trailer tire mill would let the air out of the tires at the end of the day to relieve the tension on the blade. So I thought I would see if I could remove the band if I let the air out. To my surprise after the air was out of the first tire the band was slack enough to easily slide off the tire. I removed the drive belt and gravity balanced the wheels with some stickon weights right on mill. It made a huge difference. The mill doesn't shake anymore.

In addition to balance, they also need to be round.

Sweetgum can get wet but it has to be able to completely dry out between wettings.  I like the roofing wainscot idea to prevent splash up.

  I didn't take any pictures of that process and forgot to mention it. One of tires was out of round, the other was alright. I used a carbide carving wheel on the 4 1/2" grinder to lightly grind the highspot down with the motor spinning tire at idle. The process was a little nerve racking but it worked. You can't hold the grinder in one spot, you need to slowly move the grinder following the profile of the tire so you don't end up with a flat spot on the tire.
I'm not sure if the real problem was the tire or the cheap trailer hubs I used. You wouldn't think a cast part could be that bad. I don't think they properly centered the castings when they were machined. If I were starting over I would make sure I had a true set to start with. I still believe the tire type mill is the best fit for my situation and I can change them if I have too. I think since the whole assembly was trued and balanced together they should be alright.
  This is the the grinding wheel I used. I just used the outside edge so as not to remove too much material. It throws tiny chunks of rubber all over.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Carving_wheel.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677378844)

Several builders that I have read about used spare "donut" wheels & tires.

I think most of the builds I have read that used tires ended up switching to band wheels shortly after getting it running.

  While I'm waiting for some parts to come in I decided to move the battery between the uprights and on top of the fuel tank. That allowed me to shorten the positive cable and now it doesn't have to run around the engine. I mounted my regulator under the radiator in hopes that it will catch a little air flow. I also stripped out all the old tractor wiring that was no longer needed. All I need is oil, temperature, glow plug, starter, fuel pump and regulator. I left the wiring for the fuel gauge also, but the sending unit is toast. I may wire it to light an led when the level is getting low. I tidied everything up until my control box comes in.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Wiring_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677378842)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Wiring_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677378857)

Wiring removed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Wiring_removed.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677378859)

Hi guys,
  I should have a wheelchair motor coming in soon to drive my worm gear winch. I found some sprockets to fit the motor shaft and and the input shaft of the winch. My question is chain size. The sprockets and  chain I found are for #25 chain. Since this is really a hand crank winch and not made for speed I'm thinking that will be fine. I have seen other posts recommending #40 chain. Do you think #25 chain will hold up for this application? This is just a hobby type mill. I doubt I'll ever do any commercial sawing. I would say I'm too old for that, but I see older guys on here working circles around me.  smiley_hydrogen

  I already have the v-groove bearings for the sliding blade guide. They are too small to grip the  on the corners of the 1 1/2" stock I have. They will catch on the 1" inch stock I have but it doesn't look like it's got much meat between there. I'm going to work it up with what I have on hand and see what happens.

For the wheel issue you can just weld a piece of flat stock on the edges. It will not be easy but it is doable with patience.

Are you using the #25 for lifting? or is it just spinning a threaded rod. I am all about small and light but if I was lifting a sawhead up and going to be under it there is no way I would go less than #40. But if you are just spinning a threaded rod try the #25 and if it works go with it.

Quote from: RetiredTech on March 01, 2023, 07:38:01 AMThey will catch on the 1" inch stock I have but it doesn't look like it's got much meat between there.

Yes, very little meat but holds and works great.  You can see a little better how I made it in these pictures.  A little custom spacer to push the wheel out so the 1" bar clears the mount.  Behind the spacer you can see half the head of the pivot bolt.  On the far wheel, you can see the whole head.  On the back side of the plate at the top is the threaded mount for the adjuster screw with a lock nut on the top.  Out the bottom is a out of focus screw pushing on the bar end that the wheel axle bolt is attached to.  You can kind of make out the bottom threaded adjuster mount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-03-01_09-35-41.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1677692612)
   Here is the back side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-03-01_09-36-03.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1677692617)
   This plate has to be mounted rock solid.

Quote from: Crusarius on March 01, 2023, 10:36:53 AMAre you using the #25 for lifting?

The winch will lift the saw head. The chain would just turn the shaft where the crank handle is now.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 01, 2023, 12:49:46 PMThis plate has to be mounted rock solid.

 I managed to get the plate and adjusters put together today. I'll get a picture tomorrow. Mine is a little different. I mounted the lower outside bearing solid since I didn't see the need for it to be adjustable. The other three bearings are adjustable. I have my adjustment arms on the same side of the plate as the bearing, it creates the space needed for the bar to clear the plate. The bearing is fastened with a long bolt that threads through the 3/8" adjuster arm then through the slot in the plate so it can be secured from the back with another lock nut. It really does slide well and the square tube is tight. Hopefully I can find a way to mount it to the mill tomorrow.

So it will be lifting and holding the head. I would be a little nervous about that. Sawheads suddenly dropping are quite terrifying. I can tell you how I know but lets just keep it at that :)

If I were you, I would try to upgrade the chain to a #40.

  No, it doesn't hold the head at all, just turns the winch handle. When you stop turning the winch handle it stays put. That's why I used a worm drive winch. I don't have to lock it off or anything. Whenever you stop turning the input shaft it stays put. I want to use the wheelchair motor for a several reasons. 1st is with the mill up off the ground I can't reach the crank without standing on something. 2nd, although it's not really hard to turn the crank it's slow and you have to turn it many many times to move from deck height to the height of a log. 3rd, my right shoulder complains a lot with all that cranking. I agree that #25 would be too small if it had to lift or support the weight of the head, but the winch takes all the weight. The chain just replaces me and that's not too much these days.

  I went out to work on the mill today and noticed my new wheels were getting dents in the grooves. I thought I had cleaned all the weld splatter off the track, boy was I wrong. To make sure I get it clean this time I took the wooden handle off my metal rasp layed it flat against each side of the angle and worked it back and forth all the way down the tracks. I made sure every high spot was filed down flush. Then I sprayed some Fluid Film on a rag and rubbed down each side of both angles.

Notice the bright spots that were filed down around the splatter pits.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Track_Splatter.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677801225)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/File_Track.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677801195)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Fluid_Film.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677801192)

I just thought it rolled easy before. It's amazing how much better that little attention to detail made it roll. It almost rolls itself.

Here's a couple photos of the new adjustable blade guide slider. I'm still trying to work out how to mount it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Gide_Slide_Front.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677804051)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Guide_Slide_Back.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677804167)

it really was amazing on my build how much better it rolled just after removing the mill scale.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 01, 2023, 12:49:46 PMThis plate has to be mounted rock solid.

ljohnsaw,
  That's one of my problems now. Finding a way to mount the plate solid and low enough. I might be a little slow, but I just figured out why you have all four rollers  on adjustable arms. That's how you get your up  and down adjustment too. I'm hoping my roller guides have enough up and down adjustment in them. If not I can make the stationary wheel adjustable and gain some extra movement. I'm still worried about the weight of the guide out on that 1" tube.

Everyone,
  I feel like I'm getting close to the end of this build. I have some sheet metal for blade guards and some supplies for the log clamps. My small weather proof box came in for the control panel and the wheelchair motor for the winch should be here next week. I'll still need to get the sprockets and chain. I don't know which way I'll go for that. I think the #25 chain would be plenty strong enough and run smoother than #40, but Crusarius has concerns that it may not hold up. Maybe a direct couple would be better. I'll decide after the motor comes in. I would like the option to easily go back to the manual crank in case the motor dies and I need to use the mill before the replacement comes in.

My head lift is ran with #35 chain I believe and over the 6 years I've had my mill a few links have broken and needed to be replaced. The smoothness doesn't seem to be a factor at least that I've noticed so going a bit bigger I don't think would hurt anything. Get a few extra quick links and a little extra chain it's nice to have around if something does get buggered up...

Quote from: RetiredTech on March 03, 2023, 07:10:53 AMFinding a way to mount the plate solid and low enough.

One word, Triangles! ;) Seriously, though.  Mine is hanging down about 12" from my head frame but has the long angled braces going back up to the back side of the head frame.  Simple and works great.

As far as the blade guard, make the front from wood or at least line the inside with wood.  You WILL hit it when your blade pops off.

Here's my last pic from the other day:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-03-01_09-36-03.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1677692617)
 The vertical part is 1/4" x 2.5 or 3" stock just hanging straight down and bolted to the adjustment plate for the guide bar. You can see the ends of some 1x1 used as a shim to push the plate forward so there is room for the adjusters.  Down at the bottom you see a pair of shiney-ish nuts with a gap.That's a bolt rigidly attached to the vertical plate (with the right nut) and bolts to the bent piece of 1x1 angle iron.  The two left nuts allow adjustment to move the first bar into plum as well as stiffening up the whole setup.  Not much there but super rigid.

Quote from: JRWoodchuck on March 03, 2023, 10:43:11 AMMy head lift is ran with #35 chain

Thanks for the input. That makes me feel a little better about it. When the motor shows up I'll check again to see whats available.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 03, 2023, 11:17:02 AM

Quote from: RetiredTech on March 03, 2023, 07:10:53 AMFinding a way to mount the plate solid and low enough.

One word, Triangles! ;) Seriously, though.  Mine is hanging down about 12" from my head frame but has the long angled braces going back up to the back side of the head frame.  Simple and works great.

As far as the blade guard, make the front from wood or at least line the inside with wood.  You WILL hit it when your blade pops off.

I spent a lot of time trying to mount the plate to post below the beams. I actually had it welded in place at one time but I was not satisfied with it. I finally got he idea of putting it in front of the beam like originally had the tube in tube. I think this is going to work much better. Here's where I'm at right now.  
  This is the original tube in tube slider.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_Blade_Guide.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677887526)

 
  It was welded on so I had to cut it off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_guide_removed.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677887533)

  This is how I think I'm going to mount it. It should be very solid being supported on both ends. I could actually shorten the plate about 4 inches and gain a little more range. The blade guide itself should be more stable since it will hang from a shorter section of tubing. I do need to cut about 8" off the 1" tube to clear the drive belt. I just reused the section of tubing I had cut for mounting it to the post not realizing it would be too long. All the grind spots are where I cut it away from the post mount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_roller_moved_to_top.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677887525)


  As far as the guards go, I had thought about making the whole blade guard out of wood. It would be easier to build. That will probably be the last thing I get to. I haven't really given them much thought. 

Hmm, that is interesting.  Never thought about mounting it like that but that should work.

RetiredTech That's exactly how i did mine but my bearing are flat on the square tubing (not v-grooved), my 1 1/2 square tubing is adjustable at one end for paralleling to the bunks, also have a eccentric shaft perpendicular to the plate holding the bearings to tightened at the desired location activated by a hand brake lever from a car attached by a 3/4'' tubing to the plate holding the bearings to pull it in and out, yeah i know complicate and was very finicky to build, not sure i recommend using my idea on this one :D.      

Quote from: Vautour on March 05, 2023, 07:03:56 AMtubing is adjustable at one end for paralleling to the bunks,

RetiredTech, that's the big drawback of what your are building.  Mounting the rollers allows for easy parallelism adjustment of the sliding bar to the bunks.

What I've found is I do have to adjust the blade roller guides every now and then when my ACME screws weren't behaving (slipping on the chain sprockets).  Not realizing that was the issue, I also adjusted the bar rollers (easy) to compensate for the out of whack head.  After fixing the screws, realigning the bar was easy, the guides a little more difficult but doable.

Think about all the adjustments needed and build in a way to use some bolts/screws to fine adjust until you bolt it down tight.

using bolts for fine adjust is the best thing in the world. trying to adjust anything using friction and / or hopes and dreams is a test in patience.

Quote from: Vautour on March 05, 2023, 07:03:56 AM
RetiredTech That's exactly how i did mine but my bearing are flat on the square tubing (not v-grooved), my 1 1/2 square tubing is adjustable at one end for paralleling to the bunks, also have a eccentric shaft perpendicular to the plate holding the bearings to tightened at the desired location activated by a hand brake lever from a car attached by a 3/4'' tubing to the plate holding the bearings to pull it in and out, yeah i know complicate and was very finicky to build, not sure i recommend using my idea on this one :D.      

@Vautour (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43405)
 Thanks for the reply. That gives me an idea for the latch to secure the adjustment. Maybe a spring loaded snub against the top of the square tube released by a bicycle hand break or something similar. My bar is also adjustable on one end to keep it parallel to the bade.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 05, 2023, 10:31:33 AM
RetiredTech, that's the big drawback of what your are building.  Mounting the rollers allows for easy parallelism adjustment of the sliding bar to the bunks.

What I've found is I do have to adjust the blade roller guides every now and then when my ACME screws weren't behaving (slipping on the chain sprockets).  Not realizing that was the issue, I also adjusted the bar rollers (easy) to compensate for the out of whack head.  After fixing the screws, realigning the bar was easy, the guides a little more difficult but doable.

Think about all the adjustments needed and build in a way to use some bolts/screws to fine adjust until you bolt it down tight.

@ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640),
 I think I see what you're saying. I don't think I've lost any adjustment. The bar is mounted on the left side so it can pivot in slightly oversize holes. The right side has slotted bolt holes threaded into the beam. I'll have slotted holes in the 2" channel coming down to adjust the guide up and down. At the bottom will be the square tube to hold the guide itself and allow it to adjust in and out.

Quote from: Crusarius on March 05, 2023, 11:25:44 AM
using bolts for fine adjust is the best thing in the world. trying to adjust anything using friction and / or hopes and dreams is a test in patience.

@Crusarius (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=35059),
 You may be right. It will be easy to go back and add a threaded rod to the right side to make fine adjustments easier.
 The last photo in this post is a closer photo of the winch I want to add the wheelchair motor to.


@Everyone,
 I don't expect to have any updates for a week or so. I'm having foot surgery tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be back working on the mill in just a few days. You never know. But even if I can't work on it I'll be in the forums reading other topics.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Guide_Slide.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677982923)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230305_190103435_MP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678045685)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Winch_close.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677982920)

Sounds good.  On that winch:  I mounted one of those HF winches to a plate welded to a 2x2 bar.  That would slip into various mounts on my flatbed trailer and I used it to par buck logs onto the deck.  I got tired of cranking it.  With that worm gear, it takes a LOT of turns to pull something!  So, I used my cordless drill and a socket to speed things up.  I wore out the bronze bushings in a day.  Since I only had it a week or so, I took it back for a free replacement.  Consider some sort of upgrade there or at lease a LOT of grease!

@ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640),
  Well that doesn't sound good.  I was expecting a long life out of that thing. Maybe I should rethink adding the wheelchair motor to it or at least think about a ball bearing for the shaft. It probably won't survive the chain pulling up on it all the time.

  The wheelchair motor came in. I don't know when I'll be able to check it out. I've got at least two more days  of keeping the foot elevated. I hope to be back on my feet soon.
  The motor looks new except the label is missing from the motor itself. I'm hoping I can find a way to beef up the bronze bushing on the winch. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Wheelchair_Motor.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678383163)

  I was hoping to be a little more mobile than I am by now. I'm still having issues with the foot, but I have a followup with the surgeon today. Hopefully, I'll get some good news. I think it's getting better every day. I was able to hobble out to the container and collect the pieces for the control panel. I brought them inside and sat in a chair to cut out the holes. Here's a picture of what I have so far. Nothing is wired or even tightly fastened in yet. I'll likely wait til after I start using the mill to decide if I want to add a low fuel warning light or not. I'm thinking a full tank of diesel will probably last longer than a day of sawing anyway. If I just fill up at the start of the day I won't have to worry about it. I don't know what the lifespan of these little diesels are in hours. The old hour meter had 1425 hours on it, so I put a note under the new meter and inside the box just so I can monitor the total run time.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Control_Panel_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1679390712)

Looks very neat.  I suppose the temperature gauge is showing "body temp".  :D

Quote from: Magicman on March 21, 2023, 07:22:22 AM
Looks very neat.  I suppose the temperature gauge is showing "body temp".  :D

Thanks. I'm hoping that's just because it's never been hooked up. I didn't notice until I started cutting the hole that it's in Celsius instead of Fahrenheit. I don't think it will make any difference. I expect it to run around 55° or so. Once I see where the normal temp range is I'll know when something is wrong.

  I finally made it out to the sawmill yesterday. I decided to work on the wiring so I wouldn't have to pull the welder out. I was able to get the engine control box mounted and wired in. It looks like everything is working. The LED's I bought for the oil pressure warning light and Glow Plug indicators are much brighter than I had hoped. I was afraid I might not notice them if they came on during the day, but I believe they're brighter than the small bulbs we used to use. I still have to change out the sending unit for the Temperature gauge. I ran a wire from the fuel tank also in case I decide to add a low fuel indicator or a gauge later on.
  I also had a chance to plug in the wheelchair motor and test it out. It works perfectly. Now I need to decide if my little winch is going to be worth trying to convert or not. Hopefully I'll be able to drag out the welder to finish my blade guides before long. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Wiring_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677378857)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Control_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1679967926)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Control_04.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1679967934)
 

Which side of the bed rails will you saw from?  Can you conveniently see the engine control box from there?

  Yes, it will be just to my left as I'm sawing. I'll be pushing the mill from the winch side, behind the wheel. You can just see the winch handle sticking down from the top right of the picture. I could have moved it further to the right, but it would be in the way of refueling. The sawdust will exit on the other side of the track.
  I finally got the moveable blade guide remounted today. I didn't completely finish it so no photo yet. I think it's going work out much better this time.

  Here's a few pictures of the V2.0 Blade Guides. I think they're going to work fine. I started trying to dial them in this afternoon. I've got them pretty close but I want to try to get a little closer. I'm about a 1/16th of an inch out over a 4' span right now. I don't have a blade alignment tool so I centered my 4 foot level over a straight tooth on each side. I hope that gives an accurate measurement to the mill bed.
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_guide_2_0_Moveable_Closeup.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1680304441)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Guide_2_0_Open.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1680304453)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Guide_2_0_Closed.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1680304446)

   I built this small trollie today using the  wheels I had originally bought for the mill. They are complete garbage but should be ok for this. I thought I'd use it to help load a few logs from the end of the track. That way I can use the mill until it's permanent location is ready.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Trollie_and_mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1680393640)

  I haven't had much time to work on the mill lately. I did cut an old bed rail and attach it to the carriage frame so I'd have a place to mount a magnetic scale/ruler. I want to have a sliding adjustable pointer if I can find the pieces. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would only need to slide a few inches?
  While I was at the mill I heard another tree fall into the gully below. I wonder what it was, and if I could get a section or two to the mill?

my adjustable pointer has a 4" or 5" slot. I usually only use about 1" of it. I also have a fixed pointer that is set to bed height so I know exactly where I am off the bed. Works really well for me.

  That's a good idea. Minimum height will always be the same and it would be good to know how far above minimum you are. I should probably mark it on the permanent frame where the scale goes. I can use that.

I also have a stop setup so I cannot drop below 4/4 on the final board.

  I need to add those pretty soon. Even though my bed is way too low, the bottom adjuster bolt on the stationary blade guide hits the mill base if I let it all the way down. I know that's going to wreak havoc with my blade adjustment if I don't correct it. I need to raise the bed up about another 2", but I don't have the material on hand to do that right now. I was thinking about cutting some oak or hickory strips to put on top of the current bunks as a stop gap until something else turns up.

Maybe I missed it, but have you addressed your side supports yet?  I have the manual swing up supports that I removed from my sawmill plus other misc. parts that you are welcome to. 

Quote from: Magicman on April 10, 2023, 08:36:49 AMhave you addressed your side supports yet?

Thanks Magic,
 No, I haven't made the backstops or the clamps yet. That and the blade guards are the two biggest tings I have left to do. I bought the pipe for the clamps and may have a couple short pieces of 2" square tube left over to drop the back stops into. I'm a little reluctant to fasten anything directly to the rails. My rails are so thin to start with. I think they are 12 or maybe 14 gauge, but it's what I had. I'll have to be very careful not to beat them up. My plan was to fasten the tubes for the backstops mainly to the bunks then a brace to the rail. Then the pipe for the camp would be able to attach between a brace on the right hand rail and the side of the 2" backstop tube on the other side. I thought that would help keep the pressure off the rail itself. Does that sound right?
 All that said, I never turn down miscellaneous parts and pieces. That's mainly what this mill is built out of.  Swing up backstops would be a big improvement If I can figure out how to get them attached. My wife and I could drive out one day if that's OK. We'd love to meet you folks and get a look at a real mill first hand.

Oh absolutely and I am off all of this week.  We can throw a log on the mill and saw it plus lunch will be on me.    

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1711.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1382553499)
 
I also have everything that was removed when I added the auto clutch that I will never have any use for.

The swing up side supports could be atteched to the bed rails which would make it easy to square them to 90°.  ;D

  OK, This isn't really related to mill build, but it's kinda related to it's use. I just received tracking data on my EA Wicked Root Grapple. 8) I ordered on January 16th so it's been a long wait. I'm looking forward to seeing it on the tractor.
  I plan to use it to move logs around when I get the mill going. Till then I need it for clean up and cutting firewood.

  One of my bigger tasks that I still need to tackle on the mill is Side Stops and Clamps. During our visit Yesterday, Magicman graciously gifted another piece of the puzzle for my mill. (I know, It needs all the help it can get.) He had removed these stops and other pieces from his mill during a previous upgrade. These will make a big upgrade to the simple drop in stops I was planning to use. I'll be sure to post a photo once I get them adapted.  

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Stops_from_Magicmans_Mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681597940)

I wondered where my stuff went to??  8)

  The Grapple came in late yesterday. Looks good so far. Put it to work moving a stump and some fallen rotten trees. Made quick easy work out of a chore I've been putting off. There's plenty of work for it to do on the farm. It will even get to contribute by moving logs for the sawmill.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Grapple_fresh_off_the_truck.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681816397)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Grapple_Front.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681816396)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Grapple_with_stump.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681816390)

OK, enough about the tractor. I promise the next post will be about the sawmill build.

Nothing wrong with showing off your new tractor stuff  except that it makes us jealous.  I surely could use it here on this job because the customer only has a bucket on the FEL, not even forks.   :-\

  I saw that stack of logs your working on. Looks like a good sized job. Lots of lumber being hauled away. Can't wait to start sawing some myself. Hopefully I will get to work on the mill one day this week.

  No progress on the mill today. Spent the morning in the garden and the afternoon cleaning up trees on the fence line. I did save these logs to use on the mill. And I also found a small patch of Black Locust (I think). Maybe a dozen or so little trees the tallest is about 6' and about 3/4" in diameter. The little white posted sign in the background is where our property ends. I'll bring out the Grillo 2 wheel tractor and flail mower to clean out around them when I get time. Maybe in 20 years or so I'll have some black locust to cut. I'll only be 83 by then. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Test_Logs.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682031517)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Black_Locust_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682031516)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Black_Locust_02.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682031513)

  Installation of the swing-up stops is on hold while I scrounge a few more pieces of metal. I needed a couple stops on the far end of the mill for cutting long logs so I used the two pieces of 2" square tubing I had left on that end. I know that's not much progress, but it is something.

Nothing says that you have to use the swing-up side supports but at least you now have options.  ;D

I have a love hate relationship with my swing up supports. I love how they are all connected and easy move from the trailer jack I welded to the bed. I hate how hard they are to adjust.

  I plan to use them on the front end of the mill because I figured most of what I cut will be around 8' to 12' long and I wouldn't need the drop in stops at all. I'm sure the swing up stops will be much faster to adjust than than two drop in stops. I'll need the drop in's for longer lumber and beams. I think I know how I want to connect them and I blocked one in place so I could weld the drop in's in line with where the swing up stops will be. I cut a couple pieces of shaft for the swing ups, but I'm going to have to turn it down a little. If I can fit them in my little lathe. My biggest problem right now is time. It's funny how you have less time for the things you like to do when the days are actually longer.

Quote from: Crusarius on April 23, 2023, 09:39:07 AMI hate how hard they are to adjust.

  I don't understand. How are they hard to adjust?

the way I designed them. I have adjustment on them but the biggest issue I have is if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the bed through the entire range of motion it screws up your square cants. I can have them perfect all the way up but halfway up they are not. So it takes alot of tweaking to get them just right.

Quote from: RetiredTech on April 23, 2023, 10:05:32 PMMy biggest problem right now is time. It's funny how you have less time for the things you like to do when the days are actually longer.

Now that you are retired you will never have enough time to get stuff done again.  At least when you worked you had days off and vacations.  They are now history.   :D

Crusarius,
  I hadn't thought of that problem. I had assumed If I adjusted them to be 90° when straight up they would be that way all the way down. Now that I think about it I see how that would happen. My idea was a fixed mount point at the back and then a plate that adjusts up and down on the other end. I guess I need adjustments for up and down plus left and right to compensate. I can see where that could be a bear to get perfect.

Quote from: Crusarius on April 24, 2023, 05:45:51 PM
the way I designed them. I have adjustment on them but the biggest issue I have is if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the bed through the entire range of motion it screws up your square cants. I can have them perfect all the way up but halfway up they are not. So it takes alot of tweaking to get them just right.

Wondering... if they were inline with each other when horizontal along their entire length using a tight string or wire then raised up and adjusted square with the bunks would they then not be the same set anywhere in-between?

Hilltop, that is a great thought. I may have to try that. thanks!!!

retired, one thing that I do have a problem with is the mounts are just ears welded to the frame and when I tighten the bolt it like to tighten flat to the ear. so that makes it more challenging to align it having to fight the rotation as you tighten the bolt.

between my slow raise and my out of square backstops those really are the only things that I am not really happy with on my mill. Still can't believe it works as good as it does with my lack of sawing knowledge when I built it. (never ran a sawmill before building it)

  I'm kind of in the same boat. I never even saw a real mill until I met MagicMan. I'm just stumbling through the build on what I've learned by reading other peoples builds and some youtube videos. You guys that have replied to my posts have been a great help.

  Here's a picture of where I am right now. I have the two back end fixed stops in place and one log dog spot welded in place between them. I'm not sure if it's in a good location or not. I cut up the rest of my 1 1/2" square stock to raise the bed height a little. If a make a modification to the lower bolt on my fixed blade guide I should be able to get a 1" minimum bottom board thickness. The only problem is I was about 6' short of having enough to do all the bunks. They are just sitting there right now. I'm thinking about bolting them on in case I need another adjustment point. I guess I could tack them down so I could just cut them loose if I need to. I noticed when I was adjusting my blade guides that two of my bunks are a little off. One is about 1/16th low all the way across and one is off on one end. It may be close enough for what I need, but if not I could shim the low ones back into place. Can anyone tell me if a 1/16th of an inch in the middle of about a approximately an 8 foot span is going to be a problem?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Stops2C_Dogs_and_bed_height_extenders.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682415692)

My opinion is yes, if you have identified the 1/16" issue now, then I would fix it. 
Your final product (boards) will be influenced by not only that 1/16" variance, but also the stack up of many other tolerances. If you start with a 1/16 " you will never do better. 

  Thanks FPP, I'm pretty sure I can shim it out with some thin sections of sheet metal. I guess I need to see how close I can get them. I don't think I'll ever be using this mill to cut for anyone else. Most of what I'll be cutting is construction lumber to be used on the farm. My uncle may need a few special cuts, he's more of a woodworker than I am. But then he also has a planner.

I think you will be happy you did. 

On the 1/16" variance: Triple check that your rails are true/straight. Then check your bunks again. 

I have 12 jacks along my 40 feet of track. There are three rigid track sections with 4 jacks each. I have a dip in one of my tracks of maybe 1/8" in a 16' run. But my bunks are at the ends so the cut drops in the middle. I'm doing BIG beams so that variance is lost in the drying process, IMO.

You should definitely fix it. I have had minor setup issues where it was not flat and I did notice the boards had thick and thin spots.

Of course I am a machinist before a woodworker so I use calipers to measure everything.

  Thanks guys, I only had enough material for four of the bunks right now. I laid a 4' level across the top of the square tube and measured down to the track on each side then tack welded in place. Each one is the same measurement from the top of the track to the top of the level. I think I'm good on these. I'll need to come up with some more 1 1/2 " stock for the other two. I finally got around to adding stops to both ends of the tracks so the saw head can't just roll off.

  Well I decided it was time to throw a test log on the mill. I pulled this crooked 10' fork out of the fence line a few days ago. It had blown down in a recent storm. The base of the tree was pretty rotten but the tree was still alive. I thinks it's some type of Elm, but  I'm really not sure. It was about 10" diameter on each end. I wanted to see if I could get a usable 4x4 from it. I'll probably use it to stack lumber on. The 4x4 came out almost perfect except for about 8 inches where it was too crooked on one end and I forgot to flip it on one side when I was cleaning it up. I'm very satisfied with the way it turned out as far as being straight, square and dimensionally accurate. I ended up with the 4x4, a few stickers, two wheelbarrow loads of firewood, and better a understanding of how much sawdust one of these mills creates.
 I have a couple questions. Is it normal to have the edge frayed out the board? If not what would cause it? Can someone verify what type of tree this was. I added a picture of the leaves. Now it's time to do a little cleanup under the shed then work on blade guards.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/4x4_from_crooked_first_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682554423)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Log_and_Leaf.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682554402)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Leaves.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682554408)

Quote from: RetiredTech on April 26, 2023, 09:44:31 PMIs it normal to have the edge frayed out the board?

Yes, when the blade is sawing against the grain runout, it will leave the strings.  When the blade is sawing with the grain runout, there will be none or very little.

Yes, Elm.  Notice the asymmetrical portion of the leaf where it attaches to the stem.  One side runs out before the other.

  I'm not much of a wood worker. :D I have some basic carpentry skills, but I never thought about wood grain that way. I had to do a search for wood grain run out before I finally caught on to what you were telling me. I only thought about the grain as being either in line with the cut (rip) or 90° to the cut (cross cut). Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? 

I really did not know how to explain it.  On one cut you may notice portions where there are strings and then a few inches away there are none or a less amount.  Look closely at the wood grain on those sections and you will see what I am talking about.

I find the fuzz is worse on softwoods as well. almost all of my spruce has fuzz.

  I never noticed it before on the milling videos I've watched or photos. It was probably there on some, but I guess it just didn't register until I did it myself.
  I'm still not finished cleaning up the shed, so no progress on the mill. Today was wasted with another cardiologist appointment and shopping. I did pick up an ice maker kit with the plastic line to use on the blade lubrication/cooling system. I need to get the blade guards on first because I'm thinking about mounting the fluid tank on top of it. That should make it easy to service.

Watching a guy do a mill demo with a SMG mill cutting spruce, after cutting the cant into lumber he would flip all the pieces up so the fuzz was facing up and make another pass to trim off the fuss. (not cutting the boards, just the fuzz) It was quick and looked much better.

My first test cuts were in my garage. pretty sure I am still cleaning up from that mistake :)

  Unfortunately I 'll need to do a good bit of milling in this location before I can move the mill. It's not ideal, but it will have to do. I'll probably hang some plastic across the end of the shed and let it lay down across the ground to help in collecting the sawdust. I've seen some guys hang a bucket on the blade guard to catch most of the sawdust. I'll think I'm going to try that too. Since I haven't built my guards yet I can put a little diverter at the exit to angle the flow down slightly instead of allowing it to blow straight out.

Yes, a bucket hanging on the sawdust chute will be OK except that you will have to empty it after virtually every pass on large logs.  Still works.

I tried the bucket. MM is right, needed to empty after every pass. I also had it spraying straight out to the side which was nice for keeping my area a little cleaner but it made a giant pile instead of a line.

If you lay down a piece of steel roofing to blow onto that will make pushing it out into a pile easier. try to bend the steel roofing into a U and it would work great.

  Maybe I'll need a bigger bucket. :D Actually I had another thought. My chipper has a large bag that you can attach to keep the chips from flying everywhere. I wonder if anyone has tried using something like that to catch the sawdust?

  Since I'm still on light duty for a few more days I decided to see if I couldn't improve the pointer to my ruler. The old one is just a piece of wire screwed to a magnet out of an old hard drive that died. It worked, but was too easy to bump and knock the setting out. I found a one of those round super magnets in my stash and along with a guide rail from an old dot matrix printer and what I think was part of an old shock absorber mount I made one that should be less likely to knock around. The round magnet holds it pretty tightly to the frame. If it still tends to get knocked around I could remove the magnet and tack weld it in place.

Here's the old and lousy pointer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_and_lousy_pointer.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1684004315)


And here's the new and improved pointer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_and_Improved_Pointer.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1684004325)

  I haven't given up on the mill build. There's been a lot going on down here lately. Health issues, jury duty, getting the firewood project done that I wasn't able to do in cooler weather all kept me off the mill project.  Anybody ever heard of being on call for jury duty for an entire month, and for multiple cases? They've still got me till the end of this month.
  Hopefully I'll be getting a little more time to work on it now that things are coming back together. A break in the heat would be nice though.
  I needed to divert the exhaust away from the blade guards I want to build and the operator side of the mill. I know it's not much progress, but it's progress. A leg section from a destroyed corn feeder (thank you Mr. Bear) was a perfect fit. Just had to cut it to a 30° angle and weld it all up. Added a little hi temp flat black paint to cover up my amateurish weld. ;)


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230615_212931498.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686954637)

Woohoo, Jury duty has been cancelled for the the rest of this month. It's back to work on on this project today.
Pecan Tree (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=115249.msg1987330#msg1987330) 
Had to turn down a huge oak that blew down across my neighbors driveway. It's 45" up past the root flare. I couldn't haul it even if I could cut it. I may be able to get a log out of the top depending on what he decides to do with it.
I'd rather be working on the mill.

  I finally got to work on the blade guards for the mill. I had an old set of shelving out by the scrap iron pile. Trees had grown up through it and it was in pretty bad shape. I decided I could salvage enough straightish material out of it to build the frame for the guards. It's made out 3/4" thin wall channel and held together with very rusty spring nuts and bolts. Hopefully it will be strong enough after it's spot welded to sheet metal covering. I've got a sheet of metal that came off of an old cabinet. It's not enough for the whole job, but it's a start. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Metal_Shelf-20230630_133747170.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688250218)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Begining_Guard-20230630_133812528.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688250185)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Guard_Progress_01-20230701_202744700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688250189)


That's it for this week. Sorry for the poor photo. The guard is just hanging on a couple sticks right now. It's not quite where it will sit, just wanted a photo to show. My muffler was still too long so I removed it for now. I'll work that out after the guards are in place. Hopefully it won't be such a long time before I can work on it again.

Do yourself a BIG favor.  Line the inside, front panels with some plywood. WHEN, not IF, you have a blade walk off the front, it will hit the wood and possibly be salvageable.  I had trailer tires in version 1.0 and did a "powered dismount" ;) a couple times.  :-\

Also, make sure you have enough clearance around the wheels to get your hands in there to change blades.  My whole guard comes off my version 2 mill.  Works great.  I also made my v-belt pulleys/wheels very close to my frame.  If the blade tries to walk off the back side, it can't and won't get damaged.

  Good idea. That should help to keep the metal doors from vibrating too. I was thinking about leaving the back open so I could see through the framework when the saw head is down low. I recently saw some post where Woodmiser had placed a small block of wood 1/16" from the top of the blade centered between the band wheels to help dampen vibration there. It sounded like a good idea so I was thinking about adding that to mine.

Yes, the back side of my cover is open. When I was making my cover, I blindly cut out four ¾" plywood half circle/large D-shaped pieces and drilled a big hole for the axle to pass through. Did all the finish sanding, smoothing out the cut edge.

Was very happy with how they came out.

Then took them out to fit on the mill. That's when it dawned on me that there was no way to put the back panels on and still have it be removable to change blades. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2023-02-10_17-26-27.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1676079235)
 

Quote from: ljohnsaw on July 01, 2023, 08:50:16 PMMy whole guard comes off my version 2 mill. Works great.

  Isn't it a little cumbersome to have to remove the whole guard? How did you attach it?

Actually works quite well and easy. It's ¾" ply fronts, a piece of 1" or so x 4" cedar connecting and wrapped in some ½" plastic from a playground tube slide. Mounted on each end is a T-shaped chrome bracket from a store clothing display. That lays on some unistrut of the saw frame. A couple bolt heads hange below the chrome to key to the unistrut. That is locked in place with a couple over center clamps.

So, flip up two clamps on each side, lift and remove. Easy Peazy.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_g.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042577)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_e.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042569)
 

  I gotcha. Except for the 1x4 cedar block. Is that on the back side of the plywood to back up the mounting bolts? That does look like it would be easy to remove and get back on without a lot of fuss trying to line everything up again. Plus the guard is completely out of the way for blade changes and maintenance.
  I was working towards hinged doors on this one, but I'm gonna keep that in the back of my mind.

I have one cover hinged and one removable. I like the hinged one much better. it is always a challenge to find a place to set the removable one and not have it fall on the ground.

  I'll probably use the hinged doors on this one. At the end of the day I'll need to let the air out of one tire to relieve the blade tension. That way I don't mess up my tracking. If I could start over there's a lot of things I'd do differently. It's a learn as you go project. That's probably why ljohnsaw is on v2.0. He's way ahead of me. Even with hinged doors it would be nice to easily drop the whole cover off.

The 1x4 (probably more like 1.5x4) is in a flat orientation and the green plastic is screwed both to the top (for consistency of the curved part going all the way around) as well as the front to cover the blade teeth.  Yeah, it is a little bit of an issue as to were to set it but that is more than offset by how easy it is to do blade changes and adjustments.

The chrome T parts have the top of the T in a vertical orientation. The tail of the T is what is laying on the mill head that the toggle clamps hold down on to the Unistrut.  You can make out the two bolts holding the plywood on to the T.  They are countersunk on the inside of the plywood so there is no metal available for the band to bite into should it try to wander off.

I was going to cut off the extra part of the T (making it an L) but it makes for a great handle to lift off the guard.  Also, the chrome remains intact and, so far, has not rusted.

  Not much progress on the mill itself. I got another section of the sheet metal in place. But the bigger news is my new Echo cs-620p came in. 8) And I tried it out today on the Pecan fork that fell a few weeks ago. All the limbs were cut for firewood and the rest is going to my house to be run through the sawmill. Here's some photos.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230708_155506176.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688846889)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230708_155438760.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688846882)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20230708_155422793.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1688846881)

  I've got to get that mill going. Logs are piling up. Can anyone suggest the best time to debark a pecan log? I'm guessing it loosen after a while? Right now it looks like it would have to be chopped off with an ax.

I would not be concerned about the bark, but I will caution regarding sawing Pecan limbs or any limbs for that matter.  Limbs ain't logs.  They spend their lives holding up a side bearing load and when you start sawing you will release that energy.  Don't be surprised when they start moving as you are sawing and the boards don't lay flat after they are sawn. 

  Thanks MM. That's exactly what happened with the elm limb I tried to saw a while back. This was actually a fork of the trunk that was fairly vertical, but did lean out some. We spent the better part of two days cutting splitting and stacking the firewood from the limbs. I don't know if you'd call it a log or a limb? I don't really have any use for the wood. It can always be firewood if it ties itself in a knot. I just can't see letting it rot.

Pecan is beautiful wood.  Back during my woodworking days in the 80's I built an entire bedroom suite which included a sleigh style bed, dresser and nightstand from Pecan with no issues.  I also built probably 50 different styles of wall and mantel clocks again with no issues.  That was long before my sawmilling days and before I found out that Pecan was a problem.  ::)  Thankfully the lumber was from a huge butt log that was riddled with black ambrosia beetle holes and my customers went crazy over whatever I built.  When I used all of that lumber my Pecan sales went to practically zero and I had to start using Cherry and Walnut.

Magic,
  I ran across this post while trying to figure out what the ambrosia beetle post was all about. I guess that helps explain the fist post. lol
"And Pecan limb wood is a double devil.   (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/devil.gif) (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/devil.gif)"
 

Ambrosia beetles enter the log when it is fresh felled and as the log/lumber dries they leave a small pyramid of sawdust as they exit and their pin head size holes are usually surrounded with a blackish stain.  Some furniture manufacturers, especially with Pecan, will dot/mark the wood with a black magic marker to mimic ambrosia beetle holes. 

  No new photos, but I did work on the mill a little today. I was able to get two of the blade guard mounts mostly done. I wish I hadn't grabbed that old bed rail to use. I've burned up two drill bits trying to put a couple holes in it and have two more to go. I may weld a softer tab to it and drill that instead. At least the guard can be bolted to the mill now and doesn't have to sit on sticks anymore. Should make the rest of the measurements easier. Still have to make at  least one more mount point. Then I can get back to working on the guard itself. I'm lucky if I get a day every week or two to work on the mill. This heat wave isn't helping either.

  Finally got the frame of the blade guards finished and mounted. It's not perfect but it should do the job. Still need to build the doors and cut the discharge shoot. I think I'm going to try and work on getting the mill a little more functional before I make the doors. I need to start using it some.


 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Guards_no_doors.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1691925894)

I've just caught up reading the last four or five pages in this thread.

The ingenuity of these shop built mills is impressive!  The various creative solutions really approach being artistry.  

The sawdust conversation reminded me of the following solution.  

My wife, a creative problem solver herself, came up with this sawdust solution when my customer didn't want much sawdust in his yard. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48503/image~75.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1557867414)
 

I had a 5 gallon bucket I would hang off of the chute. It worked but had to be emptied every pass. I think it was yellowhammer that gave me the idea? maybe WVsawmiller?

  I'll probably be doing the same thing until I can get the mill moved to it's permanent location. I plan to saw the lumber to build the sawmill shed/container cover. But first I have a build a carport or garage for the wife. So what sawing that gets done will have to be in the narrow space I'm building the mill in. It won't be very convenient but I think I can make it work for a while.

I would suggest milling your sawmill shed first that way you get some practice milling before the garage. 

I would agree, except that the garage has been postponed for more years than I care to admit. My wife has almost given up on it. Even if I have to buy some of the lumber it will have to come first. The last job I hired out was a nightmare. I swore I wouldn't do that again as long I could possibly do it myself. So she's been waiting on my round-to-its for a long time.

Understand, but it's your funeral...  8)

 That's kinda what I'm trying to avoid. :D

 Here's a little update on the mill progress. Sorry no new pictures. The first thing I saw when I walked up was the rubber top hold down bracket on the battery had broken. Well that didn't last very long. I cut a piece of the 1/2" metal shelving channel and drilled to fit the threaded hold downs. The opening of the channel was just the right size to fit over the square ridge in the top of the broken rubber bracket. That allowed me to continue to use the broken rubber mount between the battery and new metal channel to keep the metal channel from rubbing on the plastic battery case.
 When I had the blade on the mill last time I noticed that it didn't ride in the same spot of both tires. I made the mistake of not allowing any adjustment for toe-in on the drive axle. It wasn't a lot of difference, but it bugged me knowing it could be better with just a little investment in time. So I removed all but one of the bolts on the drive axle and enlarged the bolt holes with a 1/16th" larger drill bit. After breaking two bits I was able to pivot the back of the axle towards the mill just a little and reinstall the bolts. It was enough to bring the blade into proper alignment on the center of both tires. That also fixed a slight alignment problem with my movable blade guide. Now it tracks perfectly with the blade.
 I made a sawdust exit shoot cut a hole in the blade guard and installed it with pop rivets in case I don't like this setup I can change it easily. It should send the saw dust straight down so I can hang a bucket under it to catch the dust like a few others I've seen on forum. I'll probably need to use that until the mill is moved to it's permanent location. After it's moved I think I can let it blow straight out.
 I made another log clamp and manual log stop like the others so I can better secure the logs. Getting closer!
 Future upgrades will be to install the swing-up side stops and be able to set them from the operator side of the mill. I can probably use the wheelchair motor I had bought for the HF hand winch to drive the head up and down the track so I won't have to push it anymore. I think mills are like houses, you never really finish them. There's always just one more thing you want to do. Right now I need a usable mill. I need to cut a series of rafters for an old Shasta camper I'm working on.
 

It's good to see you making some progress Wes.  8)

Thanks MM. 
I bought a Badlands 2500 winch to replace the worm drive hand winch. I finished installing it, except for routing the wiring, but I'm not really satisfied with it. The hand winch was way too slow. This one is too fast. I've already removed all the excess cable and just have the last row and a few turns left if I raise it all the way up. I think I'm going to buy a couple more pulleys and rework the cabling so that it will put less stress on the winch and only move 1/2 as fast.

Yup, one thing leads to another opportunity.  8)

I've got a Badlands 3500 lb on my mill and was way too fast also. I put a pwm drive on it so now I can adjust the speed. They are cheap and easy to install. I bought mine on eBay.

Quote from: fluidpowerpro on September 16, 2023, 06:57:04 PMI put a pwm drive on it

That would be easier. I hadn't thought about that, I may end up using it. I need to relocate my winch  to the top left of my mill. Right now I have it mounted where the old hand winch was just for simplicity sake. It's not the ideal place for it. Right now my cabling has to go around 4 pulleys that do not have bearings. It puts to much load on the winch and the right side of the mill. If it's still too fast after I get it re-cabled I  can add the speed controller to slow it even further.

double the line up. it will cut your speed. 

wrap the cable all aroud and then reconnect the end to the winch. that will double the pulling power and half the speed.

Quote from: Crusarius on September 16, 2023, 10:42:50 PMdouble the line up

That's my plan for now. I need to move the winch to the top of the other side so it will be a straight lift instead of having to go around two pulleys before it gets to the first beam. Right now the two sides are connected on the top beam. When I double line the winch I don't think I'll have enough room on top to get a full lift of the head. I'm probably not explaining that very well. I'll try to get a closeup picture of it today. My side beams are much longer so if the cables are connected on the sides I should be able to get a full lift, bu I'll need to change my pulley system configuration. I'd like to find some larger pulleys with bearings maybe 2 1/2" to 3" in diameter.

Yes, big pulley with bearings. If they are too small your cables don't last very long. If you can find some with ball bearings, use those. 

garage door spring pulleys work well.

The garage door spring pulleys I've seen are two piece stamped steel and riveted together will that hold up to the load?

I just found some cast iron ones with ball bearings. They're on order now.

yes, those garage door pulleys you described hold up to a pretty hefty load just opening and closing a garage door. They are stronger than you think and really cheap.

@fluidpowerpro (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=55416) What size pwm did you buy for the Badlands 3500 winch? 60A?


 I ordered 4 cast iron garage door pulleys with ball bearings. I measured the ones I have on the mill now. They're 1 1/2" diameter. I pulled them from some snatch blocks made for come-alongs.

It's 60 amps max, 40 amps continuous.

 Here's a picture of the mill as it is right now. Changes from the last photos are the brand new battery , muffler reconfiguration to clear the blade guard, and the electric winch in place of the the old worm drive hand winch.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Current_Configuration.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206742)


The next 3 are my current cabling configuration. This will change very soon. Hopefully I'll get  better welds this time, now that I've had a little more practice.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Cabling_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206734)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Cabling_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206734)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Cabling_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206734)

 Even though I've still got work to do I was able to put the first real log on the mill and get some practice using a mill. I was able to get enough usable lumber from this log to build my first drying pallet, have a couple 8' 4x4s to aid in loading logs form the end of the mill and still have some 2x4's to frame a small shooting house for my grandson. I'll be working his shooting house while I'm waiting for my new pulleys to be delivered.

I've used some old chainsaw slabs to make test cuts on the mill and cut up a big limb or two, but this is the first actual "real" log to make it to the mill. 
(I made sure that red bucket was turned where you couldn't read the name on it. But you all know where it came from.)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/1st_actual_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206735)

The pallet is a little over 8' long. I didn't cut any length off the boards. It's 4' wide because that's how long my pallet forks are.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pallet_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206743)

Just need to finish blocking it up and cut some stickers then I'll be ready to dry some 8' lumber. I sprayed the pallet down good with borax to help preserve it.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Pallet_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695206746)

The mill did pretty good except for the winch being too fast. I noticed the engine does put out a little smoke from time to time, but it should be fine for a long time.  I've racked up 8 hours of run time on it and decided it had earned itself an oil change and a new air filter. Since I didn't know the history of this motor I didn't want put any money in it until I knew what I had. I had to slow down the cut speed on that log until I got it pruned down a little, it would bog the engine if I pushed too fast. All in all I'm pleased with the way it runs and cuts. I think the main build is finished now. From here forward everything else should just be improvements to the basic design.

Good job and the firewood whack is also nice.  ;D

I think this configuration would slow your speed down but would allow the mill to rack side to side as you raise it.  It is how mine is set up.  I find the vibrations from the engine running are enough to keep it even as it goes up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35805/Mill_Head.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1642005419)
 

Things in blue are stationary on the mill.  The red circles move with the head of the mill.  Black is the cable.

This is the setup on my Woodland Mills saw. Everyone thinks its pretty slick.  Its fully adjustable and there is no racking.

You appear to have the right concept in your cabling, though the adjustability is difficult.

You should be able to find some hardware that makes a cable to two cable connection to allow each to be pulled and an eyebolt or something on each cable to make it adjustable.  And then to slow it down, you need at least one pulley larger than your other ones either in the main cable or one in each side cable.

I would try to slow down the movement using pulleys and not a speed controller.  The motor in the winch may not take kindly to that kind of speed regulation.  Its designed to run at one speed.

The forum toolbox has a pully calculator tool that you can use to help figure out what you need.  Using the Forum menu, select Extras->Tool Box->Machinery calculators->Pulley calculator.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67554/CableA_Routing.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1642052167)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67554/CableB_Routing.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1642052168)

Your drying pallet will need support under each column of stickers, down to ground in some form or manner. 

Suspect best for 5 columns of stickers for the 8' length. 

Mill looking real good. 

Thanks for the ideas guys. I wanted to draw a diagram of how I intend to re-cable the mill, but I draw worse than I weld! I plan to use the same basic concept as I'm using now except the two cables will be coupled on the drive side of the mill. The cable will leave the winch and drop straight down to the saw head, wrap around a pulley attached to the saw head and travel back up and terminate at the top of the mill. There will be another pulley mounted below the saw head attached to the frame below. Another cable will attach to the bottom of the saw head wrap around the pulley attached to the frame travel up to the top of the mill, go around a pulley on each side of the mill and then travel down to the other side of the saw head. Since the right side is lifted by the left sides movement I only need to double the line on the one side. There will be adjustable connections on both sides to keep things level, although an adjuster on the right side alone should be enough. I'll still need 4 pulleys, but they will be larger and have ball bearings so it should work smoothly and slower. I hope to have the pulleys to work with by this weekend.

Quote from: beenthere on September 20, 2023, 04:35:14 PMYour drying pallet will need support under each column of stickers, down to ground

So, if I place 4' 1x4s under the first row of stickers the pallet isn't strong enough supported on both ends and the center? I guess I could block in some 2 by's between the 4x4s if that's whats needed.

@beenthere (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=180)   Guess I should have looked it up first. You'd think a pallet would be a no brainer. I found this thread from @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) Pallet dimensions (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108743.20). It also contained a link to Standardizing lumber pallets (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=101389.20). I can still fix it. Just need a few runners under the stickers and some more blocking to the ground. Looks like I didn't need the 4x4's at all. The next one will be easier.

The pulleys showed up Friday afternoon. The next two weeks are pretty full. Hopefully I'll get enough time to work on it before then.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Garage_Door_Pulleys.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1695574554)

Worked on moving the winch a little this week. Unfortunately, while doing some welding I forgot to move the ground from the saw head to the frame when I changed locations. That resulted in spot welding one of the sliders to the post. We've got another busy week coming up next week. I probably won't get much mill time for at least another week. My plan is to use a hydraulic jack to break it loose.

quick wack with a hammer will do it.

  The hammer with some winch tension was the first thing I tried. I can't get a good angle for a solid blow on that side. I hope to have some sawmill time today and tomorrow. The rest of the week is already tied up. I'm going to put a jack between the frame foot and the bottom of the head. Between that and a hammer on the upright it should pop a loose. I've made this mistake once before, but it came loose pretty easy last time. 
  I think I made the slider on that side a little too snug to start with. I'ts never moved as smoothly as it should on that side. When the engine is running that little vibration keeps it from sticking. If the engine is off it's a little jumpy moving down but OK going up. I was hoping a little wear would make it better. I've tried greasing it and that just made a mess. I've also tried oil, transmission fluid, WD40, dry lube, and silicone spray. The best thing I found for it so far is car polish. That seemed to work better than anything. Someone suggested I rub the post with a bar of soap. I haven't tried that yet, but I plan on trying it and also some auto wax if that doesn't work.
  Does anyone have a better suggestion for lubing the up rights? I don't think I would have this problem If I had used new square stock. The galvanized telescoping mast I used was not exactly smooth or even flat on the sides to start with.

My mill didn't move smoothly on the uprights either and I was constantly trying different lube with no success. I later found that the cause of my issues was the cable pulleys. If they use bronze bushing as the bearing, you have to be religious about keeping them lubricated. The main pulley that took the most load was replaced with one of a larger diameter that used a ball bearing. Once I made that change, problem solved.

don't put tension on it when you wack it that is defeating the purpose of the wack. You need it to move when you hit it.

  I got the slider loose, but it drug worse than ever. I ended up cutting a section off the bottom of that slider. That really freed it up. I don't know how I'm going to clean up the sharp edges. since it's all welded together there's no way to disassemble and grind it down. I may just have to live with it until I build mill 2.0 as someone else has done. ;)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Hacked_slider.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696286110)

  I think it was worth it in the long run. Both sides rise and fall smoothly now. I did go ahead and rub some white dial bar soap on the post. I don't know if it helps or not, but it makes the mill smell good. Here are a few pictures of the new winch in it's new location and the reconfigured cables. The first image is the winch and it's line going straight down to a pulley mounted at the top of the saw head. The cable goes back up and terminates just under the winch. That cuts the lifting speed in half. I haven't tried sawing with it yet, but it still moves pretty fast.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Winch_and_double_line_setup.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696283204)


To the right of the pulley you can make out the bolt that secures the other cable that goes down and around the pulley mounted to the frame then back up and over the two pulleys at the top of the mill to lift the other side of the saw head.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Lower_pulley_mounted_to_frame_to_raise_the_other_side.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696283198)


  The second cable terminates on an eyelet bolt so I can adjust the level of the beam.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Eyelet_bolt_adjuster.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696286109)


Here's a front view of the mill as it is today. I finally got around to replacing a bad bearing on one of the axles today. I don't have to listen to it crying anymore. I cant wait to try it out again.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Mill_Front_view.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696283199)

  I thought I posted this yesterday. I must have done something wrong. When I checked to see if anyone had answered my question it was gone. I put this 16' elm log on the mill yesterday. I found it already on the ground some months ago. It looks pretty bad, but most of the log as hard as a rock. 
  I want to cut some 2x6's out of it to use as rafters in my camper repair project. They won't be load bearing at all, just have to support the aluminum skin of the roof. They only need to be 7'6"  long. The problem is this I think this tree is full of powder post beetles. It''s got a bunch of tiny holes with a black ring around them. If I cut the lumber and spray it good with borax would the the wood be suitable for construction lumber or should I look for something else?
  I don't think I'll be loading anymore logs this size on the mill until it's in it's permanent location. It was all the tractor wanted to lift and I was worried that I would drop it and take out the shed, diesel tank and camper all at the same time. Plus I'm not setup to handle this much weight right now. Maybe cut the next one in half.
  I didn't finish sawing the log. The opening cut turned out wavy so I know it's time to replace the blade. There must be a lot of stress in this log. I could hear it poping as I cut. When I came out the othe end both ends of the cutoff piece were about an inch above the log.There's no more mill time for this week It will have to wait til Monday for me to get back to it. 
  Let me know what I can do with this wood.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20231003_201130323.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1696417516)

that wood = rustic. but have to kill the bugs first. borax won't kill them hot kiln will.

2x6 is to large for in a camper. and I would find something that doesn't have bugs in it.

  I was afraid of that. I don't have access to a kiln at this time. I would like to build one eventually. I guess it will be stacked to the side until a kiln can be built.
 The 2by's in the camper lay flat and taper down to 3/4" starting about a foot from each end. Original ones were 2x3. But I just wanted the extra width to better support the roof and a couple patches when it goes back together. It's a no rush project. I paid $50.00 for the camper to keep it from going to the crusher. It may become a portable workshop.

  I've been learning to use the mill and have had a few problems. I think my band speed may be too fast. The sawdust is very small and the blade leaves a lot of it on the log. I'm going to have to find the calculator I saw a while back and see what it says. It does cut good though.
 The welds on the log clamps broke right at the Tee. I had used the wire feed welder and it didn't penetrate very  well. I went back and re-welded them with the stick welder.
 I had my turn at trashing a saw blade on a side stop. Very irritating. I hit it hard too. Put a good groove in the stop. :(
 Then I had this log decide to jump off the mill while I was moving it into position. Luckily it didn't tear anything up. I had to cut it into small sections and roll them out of the way. :) No big deal, the log was pretty rotten anyway and crooked. Just wanted to cut it for the practice.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Log_Rolled_Off_Mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1697933153)


 The last problem I had was with the new pulley I mounted to the lower frame. The groove was catching sawdust and the cable would pack it down tight. I made this little hood for it. The bolt in the center is ground down to help scrape any dust out before it can be packed down and affect the  level of the sawhead.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Hood_over_pulley.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1697933153)


 It's all good though. I ordered 5 new 10° blades to try out and some parts to build a blade sharpener. I read somewhere the 10° blades work better on mills with less than 25hp. My little kubota falls into that category.

Quote from: RetiredTech on October 04, 2023, 07:20:30 PMThe problem is this I think this tree is full of powder post beetles. It''s got a bunch of tiny holes with a black ring around them.

Those holes are not PPB's but Ambrosia Beetles.  Spray the lumber to prevent PPB's and don't be concerned about the Ambrosia Beetles.  They are already in the log/lumber and they will exit as the lumber dries leaving a small pyramid of sawdust.

With my limited experience milling I have found the 10 degree blades to be the worst ones I use. I get better cut out of all the others. I have 22hp.

Quote from: Magicman on October 21, 2023, 08:55:10 PMThose holes are not PPB's but Ambrosia Beetles

What would be the best thing to spray it with? Do you think it would be usable on the interior of a camper after it's dry? I had in mind making some thin shiplap and staining it for a ceiling. But I don't want to infest the camper either. It's already had a hard enough life.

Don't be concerned with them, just do whatever you wish.  They will exit as the lumber dries leaving a small pyramid of sawdust.  They can not infest anything.

Quote from: Crusarius on October 22, 2023, 04:57:24 PMI have found the 10 degree blades to be the worst ones I use.

Wow, I hate to hear that, but I only ordered 5. The first blades I ordered were from Sawblade.com. I'm not really happy with them. They cut fine, but from the marks on the wood it looks like they have a problem with consistent set on the teeth. I thought it might just be the first blade I tried, but the second blade left the same marks, right up until I tried to saw through a side stop. I can't say that helped it at all. I'm on the third blade now and it's just like the other two. So I ordered 5 of the 10 deg blades from WoodMizer. We'll see how it goes.

Quote from: Magicman on October 22, 2023, 07:22:18 PMThey can not infest anything.

 Thanks, I had written that stack off. I just threw it on some pallets in the edge of the woods and covered it up. I'll have to go back and move it to the shed where I have a flat spot for it to dry on. 

Most of the interior finish lumber in our cabin had ambrosia beetles.  Nothing was kiln dried.  After I finished occasionally I would notice a pyramid on some flooring somewhere and I would vacuum it up.  After the lumber finished drying the ambrosia beetles were gone.  They can not live in dry lumber, but PPB's love it.  Tim-Bor, etc. will prevent PPB's from entering the dry lumber.

Conversely, Ambrosia Beetles usually enter the log while it is still a log.

  I started a new thread here Band Blade Drag Sharpener (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=123393.0) with band sharpening questions. Somehow I let it devolved into another discussion of my mill so I thought I'd try to bring it back here and try to get the other thread back on topic too. 
  We were talking about engine speed and sawdust. I had a couple flitches still on the mill bed so I edged them just to generate a little sawdust at a reduced rpm.

This is a picture of the sawdust the mill generates at full speed. This batch was from some Cedar but everything I've run through was about the same. I wanted something small to put in the picture as a comparison. All I could find was a piece of .035 welding wire. It's smaller than cornmeal.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Sawdust01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1699389778)


This is what it looks like at about 1/2 throttle. I'm fairly sure it was Elm.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Sawdust02.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1699389779)


Here's a shot with both piles.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Sawdust03.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1699389784)


I'm thinking the sawdust should look more like the lighter colored pile.

ERC sawdust will have a different look & texture from anything else that you saw.

Point taken. I went back and reset the motor to full speed and ripped a section of the same piece of wood for comparison. Here's a new look at all three.
The top pile is the same piece of wood as the lower left except it I sawed it at full engine speed. I'm going to order a tach just so I know how fast the engine really is running. If I can run it around 2800 that should put me in the right ball park with my current pulley. That would also let me know for sure what size pulley I need for full throttle sawing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Sawdust04.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1699482181)

Essentially, what you are looking at here is 'chip load per tooth'. Instead of changing the pulley size to reduce the band speed, you could also increase the federate down the log to get the same load per tooth.
 Just a different perspective to consider.

  I've had some questions about the blade speed on my mill. It cuts OK, but it leaves a lot of sawdust on the log and the sawdust it makes is really small. I've also read that too high a band speed can cause excess wear on the band and take the set out of the teeth.
  Not having any reliable data on the little kubota I didn't know what the actual engine speed was. So, I bought a $20 magnetic pickup tachometer off the web and mounted it in a small plastic box with a 9 volt battery so I can use it as a portable Tach. I epoxied one magnet to the engine pulley so I could get the actual engine RPM and another to the pulley attached to band wheel. Full throttle with the band engaged gives me 3260 engine rpm and 1120 rpm at the band wheel. This works out to be 5868fpm at the band. From the information I found at Cook's maximum fpm for a 30+ hp mill should be 5500. From information I've found online I believe my engine is between 16-20hp. Cook's suggests a maximum of 4500fpm for 16-18hp engines. I can lower the engine speed to 2500rpm and hit the 4500fpm recommendation, and I'll probably try that for the short term. Long term I want to get a 14" to 16" pulley so I can raise the engine rpm. The 14" pulley would put me just over 5000fpm with no load, the 16" just under the 4500fpm. Either would probably work better than the 12" pulley I'm using now. They would allow me to get more torque to the blade, hopefully prolong the life of my blades and leave less dust in the cut and in the air. Time will tell and I'll post results the results when I figure it out.
  Does this sound reasonable or am I going about it wrong?

I have 4" centrifugal clutch on engine and 14" drive pulley on bandwheel. Works very well. band wheels are 19".

Yes, you're on the right track. I switched mine for 12" to 14" with my 19" wheels. I'd have to remeasure the engine pulley but 14 is as big as I could fit. I had to cut into a cross piece as it is! A good jump in torque.

I'm using trailer tires for band wheels. With 65lb of air in them they are 21" before I tighten the band. after the band is tight they're closer to 20". The little diesel has cut everything I've put on the mill, but on the bigger stuff I do have to go pretty slow to keep from bogging the engine down. Going by Cook's guide I should probably go with the 16" pulley, but I haven't made my mind up yet. I think I've got enough room to fit either one.

I also have a trailer tire mill.  It runs somewhere around 4200 fpm.  With a 13 hp engine I cant push it fast enough to bog down the engine.  The blade will start to rise and dive before it bogs down.  When I built it I was aiming for around 5000 fpm but I used what I had.

I think mine would cut better if the blade was moving a bit faster.

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on November 16, 2023, 09:25:16 AMI also have a trailer tire mill.

Have you had a problem with your tires going out of round? I trued mine up with a 4" angle grinder and a carbide carving disk when I built the mill. I noticed today that one wheel is out of round a good bit again and the other one is slightly out of round. I wonder if it's because I've been leaving the band on the machine?

  I finally got a chance to put a piece of the Pecan I've been saving on the mill. I think I almost waited too long. I had a happy accident happen while sawing it. I've been playing around with building a diesel band lube setup. My goal was to have it supplied from a very small auxiliary tank that constantly refills from the engine return line. Right now I just have a gallon jug for a manual drip. I got a little too much diesel on the band and band tension squirted the band off the front of the tires when I engaged the blade. It made a terrible racket and damaged a couple teeth on the band but no real harm otherwise. That gave me an excuse to open the box of WM 10° blades I had ordered. What I found was a pleasant surprise. I didn't see any difference in the ease or speed of cut, but the quality difference was amazing. See below.

Short 7'4" section of pecan log.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20231117_203120577.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700308222)


This is the cut quality using the Sawblades.com 7° blades. This was the third blade from the box. All three blades left this pattern on on everything I sawed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20231117_193328514.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700308227)


The new Woodmizer Blade looks like this.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20231117_211830996.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700308240)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/PXL_20231117_211816419.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700308236)


You can still see faint teeth marks on the wood, but they are so small you can't really feel them when you run hand over it. I wish I would have ordered the WM 7° bands now. That will probably what I go to long term. I didn't have any problem with the 7° sawblade.com blades cutting. They just left the boards looking so rough. I'm thinking a good re-set and sharpening will make them cut a lot better. I see more WM blades in my future. Come to think of it, MM told me to buy WM 7° blades to start with. I think maybe experience has taught him a thing or two.
smiley_turkey_hide

Quote from: RetiredTech on November 17, 2023, 09:23:39 PM

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on November 16, 2023, 09:25:16 AMI also have a trailer tire mill.

Have you had a problem with your tires going out of round? I trued mine up with a 4" angle grinder and a carbide carving disk when I built the mill. I noticed today that one wheel is out of round a good bit again and the other one is slightly out of round. I wonder if it's because I've been leaving the band on the machine?

No.  And my mill is left with a tensioned blade all the time.  The first couple years I released the tension when not in use.  But for the last 7 years or so it is left tensioned 24/7.

Quote from: Magicman on October 22, 2023, 07:22:18 PM
Don't be concerned with them, just do whatever you wish.  They will exit as the lumber dries leaving a small pyramid of sawdust.  They can not infest anything.

MM called it again. I just finished sawing the first pecan log yesterday. Took 2 days due to multiple interruptions.  I flat sawed it into 1/2" boards and stacked it on the end of the mill as I went. I moved it today to a temporary pallet because one end was in the afternoon sun and I didn't want it to warp if I can prevent it. I wont have time to spray it and properly stack it until probably Wednesday. But this is what I found today.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Larva-214613508.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700433798)


  The wood is drying out fast and they don't like it.

Due to some less than optimum weather I had a chance to make a much needed upgrade to the mill. My old magnetic mount lumber scale proved to be almost useless. I spent a lot of time measuring down from the cant top to get a halfway accurate cut.  Hopefully the new scale will be much better. All that's left is a little paint, the final adjustments and a couple good clamps. The lower pointer will be set to the distance to the bunk +1" That's my bottom board thickness at the mills lowest setting. The gray indicator will have a handle or knob on it so I can easily move it to an eye level mark and calculate my cuts from there. My new ruler is wide enough that I can add marks for common cut sizes. A cheat sheet with common cut drop distances will also help once I get it done. If I get really ambitious I can order one of those Fancy Dan magnetic lumber scales just like real sawmills have. But the little bit I cut I think this new setup will make sawing my lumber much faster and more accurate.

Here's a couple photos of my old setup and a few of the new one.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_Scale01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471861)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Old_Scale_02.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471857)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Scale_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471847)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Scale_02.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471847)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Scale_03.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471853)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/New_Scale_04a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1701471850)

First measuring device. One was set from the bed so I always knew my exact location from the bed and the other was floating for random cuts.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/IMG_8688r.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1536282860)
 


new version with all the scales I usually use on it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/IMG_20181028_172941983.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1540816980)
 

I do have an even more upgraded version with a fixed pointer for exact location and a movable pointer for random cuts. I do not have a picture of that one.

I used a pair of dividers set to a size like 1" + kerf and scratched my way up my aluminum scale. Then I scratched the marks deeper with a chisel. After I completed all the scales including numbering them, I sprayed paint. After it dried, sanded it down. That just left paint in the marks. Later I added dots midway on the larger scales. I use those when I want to center the pith on a timber. I can slide my scale to reset my starting point. I also stamped but not painted the scale number up the scale for ready reference.

My first scale.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1597536645)

Rare earth magnets prevent the scale from dropping when I release the clamp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_d.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1701482206)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Improved_Scale.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1568767498)
 
Added a laser to eliminate the parallax errors.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210616_b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624286585)
 

  Those are great. Some of the vertical lines look like they are etched into the aluminum. How did y'all accomplish that and keep them so straight?

The first (neat) one I used a straight edge and a box knife. The other I tried to use a v chisel. Didn't work so well.

I used a mill and a V bit :)

The aluminum is 1/8" thick I think I went almost 1/16 deep with my cutter. I thought about painting it but instead I just used a sharpie and darkened the lines. Worked just fine.

  I may have to try ljohnsaw's method on my old ruler. I don't have a cnc. I used to use an awl to scratch lines on sheet metal when building duct work back in my HVAC days. Aluminum is much softer so I guess a couple passes with anything sharp would give you a nice line. I just never thought about it. I tried using a sharpie to mark a ruler but that made the lines too thick. (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=105001.msg163379)

I didn;t have the CNC when I made mine. I just used my manual bridgeport.

  I bought a 100amp PWM to slow the winch down while lifting the head so I can more accurately stop on the correct mark. It's a little easier since I changed the winch to a double line setup, but it still moves too fast. Unfortunately, it will not fit in my control box so I'll have to find another box to mount it in.  I'm a little concerned about heat build up around the controller. I see it has a fan cooled heat sink in it. I don't know how well it will hold up in a sealed enclosure or a dusty ventilated one. I'm going to give it some more thought before I jump into it. I may need a ventilated enclosure with a fan mounted near the top and filters to keep the inside clean. Am I over thinking this? I assume the fan would only run when the winch is moving. How much heat does it really generate? Summers get pretty hot down here. I don't want to fry the thing. One other problem I see is the rocker switch that comes with it to reverse directions is very small and flimsy. I'll probably get a SPDT toggle switch to replace it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/100_amp_PWM.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1702090047)

I've used a similar 40/60 amp unit for a number of years now. It's not fan cooled. I have as far as I know never had any heat related issues. I would place a higher priority on keeping dirt out compared to ventilation. When choosing an enclosure. I would use steel over plastic because steel will dissipate heat better.

  When I ordered this PWM the photo had individual heat sinks and no fan. I guess I was shipped an updated model. This one has a single square heatsink with a fan about the size of the ones we used on the original pentium  cpu's. I ordered two of these so I would have a backup just in case.
  Just thinking out loud. I'd like to use the old winch relays and only use the PWM for raising the head. I'll have to tear into the winch solenoid and see how it's built. It may not be possible without new solenoids. That would eliminate the rocker switch altogether and allow me to still use the wireless remote from the winch as well as the wired.

You'll need to wire the winch motor direct to the pwm unit. You can do what you want on the control side such as replace the cheap fwd / rev switch that comes with the unit. At first I used an ATV winch rocker, but that proved to be not up to the duty cycle of a mill. I ended up using a heavy duty toggle switch  with a rubber boot. You can also wire in the remote control unit in that circuit, but I question the need for remote control on the up and down, unless you also add power feed.

I have done the same as FPP: 2 - 60 amp PWMs in a closed box. 1 for up down, 1 for power feed. Replaced switches with rubber booted toggles, the supplied rockers are unreliable. No issues with heat.

  Well, I ruined another band yesterday trying to saw my backstops down. That's at least three so far. I decided it was time to try to get a heads up before I mow another one down. A couple teeth are completely gone on this one and it was on the mill less than 15 minutes. I don't think the sharpener is going to do it any good even if I had it working.
  I decided to try to add something to the bark guard of the stationary blade guide. That way if I had to remove it I can just remove the two bolts holding the guard on. Easy enough, but not so easy that I would remove it instead of trimming a bump off the log with saw. Because I know I would forget to put it back on until I mow another back stop down. If this doesn't work I'm going to have to go to wooden back stops. ;-) This can get expensive quick!
  It's really just a scrap cut off of a square tube. It looked like a piece of 2" angle iron when I first picked it up. I trimmed it up a little and added a gusset at the top for a little extra strength. Presto chango we have a Blade saver. I even gave it a little paint.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Saver_001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1702598258)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Saver_002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1702598258)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Saver_003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1702598263)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Blade_Saver_004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1702598261)


It's a maybe a 1/4" behind the face of the backstop. I may have to trim it back a little more. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. Maybe tomorrow. Wish me luck.

I might of said this before.
Looks like your stops go straight up and down?
I put inch marks on mine. 4 inches is really 3 inches and 6 inches is really 5 and so on.
If I set my head at 8 inches and my stops at 8 inches, I know I have an inch to spare.
But does not help if I set them at 10 inches and then change my mind and drop the head down to 8 inches and start to saw!!!  ::)

  Yes they are fixed vertical. I have a pair of swing up stops I want to mount on the other end of the mill. That's where most of the sawing will be done once the mill is moved. I have thought about marking the height on the stops. It looks like a good idea. I knew where they were. I lowered the one at the beginning of the  log and got distracted and had to leave for a minute. I came back and started sawing without even thinking about the other end. I think I need the extra level of safety. It gets really aggravating after the first time or two.
  How often do you have to repaint the lines on your stops? Or do you make a shallow cut in the stop and paint that?

Mine are marked with shallow cuts... Lots of them right at the top and down to about 1"  ::)

I used metal stamps and put the 1" less stamp just above the level. That way, when visible, I'm good. I have them marked to about 14" or so.

After stamping, the adjoining metal is raised. I hit it with a flap wheel. That makes the outline of the number shine . I then paste wax my sliding gear once or twice a year.

You will find that you do not need the high side supports as much as you may think after you get one and especially two sides of the log flat.  In the picture below they are seen well below the final cut.

With sharp blades there is not much side load as you are sawing.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0617.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041279)
 
My sawmill has ¾" blocks welded to the bed rails which is all that the cant gets for the saw through.  They are seen here before I made the final turn.

I use the high sides to keep my 40" logs from rolling Over the tops!

Great idea but I'm betting they get removed before long! I run that guide close down the side of a log so often it would drive me nuts.

I've been sawing nearly 4 years on my machine and I found I only ever really have the backstops in 3 places, down, 6" up, or "way up". For 6" up I'd grab the stop with the point of it butted into my palm/thumb muscle (at a crease of my hand or whatever - somewhere it felt familiar) and index finger pointed down touching the bed, this was safely short of 6" by a half inch or so I did that for years until I finally did paint some lines on it. Mainly because I employed some help and I wasn't so sure about his certainty of where his thumb muscle was hah xD.

Way up for giant logs you don't want to roll over (and it gets turned long before way up becomes a problem), all the way down once you have a flat face, and 6" up for standing cants up, and all other logs that aren't giant. For standing cants up 6" is all you'll ever need, if you position the wider face of it against the stops.

If the safety brackets you've designed don't cause you any grief that will be great but if not I would try to develop more of a routine or process that you go through, to prevent this happening.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 15, 2023, 01:41:55 PMI use the high sides to keep my 40" logs from rolling Over the tops!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0089.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1300752447)
 
A 40" log will not roll over 4" of side supports.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0057.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1299260761)
 
And this was a 40" log.  Raise them to turn the log and then immediately lower them to below wherever the blade might be.

I only use the log stops when the log is round and to support the flitches.
I just use a black maker that wears off and then redo it.
The flitches is when they get the work out.  ;)
I stand up 6-8 and start sawing.
The inch marks helps out because I can hold the flitches better. Before I did the marks I would kinda be on the low side of supporting them.

 Made a little upgrade to the sawmill. I've been having a problem with the head raising too fast to hit the correct measurement ever since I added the electric winch. I had added a pulley to the head to cut the speed in half, but it was still too fast. I bought a PWM motor controller but never installed it. I kinda wanted to keep it simple. What I finally did was to add a second pulley to the lift side to slow the winch even further. I should be about 1/3 full speed now. It made a big enough difference that I stop on the mark about 50% of the time now. That may be good enough. Time will tell. I also discovered that Minwax paste wax on my vertical posts really smoothed out the raising and lowering of the head better than anything else I've tried. I got the idea from a woodworking video I watched about planer that didn't smoothly.
  It's hard to tell from the photo what's going on with the cables. The cable leaves the winch and goes down around the pulley on the top of the saw head. It leaves the saw head and goes back up to the new/old pulley on the post below the winch then back down and attaches to the saw head.  The pulley at the bottom of the post is just to raise the other side. 
 I spent the day yesterday sawing some beetle killed pine. Not very productive, but the mill worked great. about 75% of the pine was already gone too far. Some actually had termites in the standing tree.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/66410/Full_side.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353147)