Epifanes Clear Varnish

lowpolyjoe · October 31, 2016, 08:42:19 PM

I think a few people on this forum have mentioned Epifanes before. I'm using it for the first time on a bench that will live outside.

I'm applying it with a brush and following the directions. I think i've got 3 or 4 coats on at this point, with thinning varying from 50:50 at the first coat up to maybe 80:20 with the last. The buildup seems reasonable at this point. The directions call for something like 8 coats total. Seems like a lot to me. Anyone who uses it for outdoor projects, how many coats are you using?

tule peak timber · October 31, 2016, 09:42:34 PM

I used it once, and was not happy with the hardness of the finish. I sprayed 4-5 heavy coats on epoxy. I did finally get it buffed out after several months....Rob

woodworker9 · November 02, 2016, 03:15:53 PM

Epifanes is considered to be one of the absolute finest exterior finishes, and is used extensively in the high end boating/yacht world for protecting very expensive timbers from the harms of weather. You absolutely have to follow their precise directions to get it right, though. 7-8 coats is what it takes to get the final finish you're looking for. Heavy coats, and shortening the finish schedule, will most definitely leave you with a less than stellar finished product.

It's one of those products that you just can't rush, and have to take your time and do it right, according to Epifanes' finish schedule. If you do, you will be left with the very best exterior finish and protection that you can get.

I have used it for years on smallish exterior projects (I don't do much exterior work), but I have a very good friend who is a 5th generation high end yacht and wooden boat builder, and his company uses Epifanes exclusively with the most beautiful results you've ever seen. He was the one who told me that if I was going to short-cut the process, that don't bother at all. Waste of time and a lot of money.

lowpolyjoe · November 02, 2016, 05:57:52 PM

thanks for the feedback guys.

last night i applied my 4th (or 5th?) coat. i'm not sure if i'll apply any more coats just because it's so time consuming (the sanding between coats). but i do have decide how to 'finish' the finish. with no sanding after a fresh coat it looks very glossy and my wife likes the look. it feels like glass with little imperfections in it. if i sand it smooth, it looks a bit dull, so i'd have to live with that or sand through several grits if i want to try to get the gloss back. i been avoiding my random orbital, all hand sanding so far. man, i hate sanding. :D

tule peak timber · November 02, 2016, 07:54:51 PM

We ditched Epifanes for Awlgrip spray / and brush formulas. Sprayed a pint 30 minutes ago on two table tops. To be honest I used Awlgrip in the 70's to paint my boat and other yachts with excellent results. I have a battery box on my present generator down at the sawmill from my 1978 Tollycraft that has good paint on it even though the plywood is pretty much dissolved. If you talk to the factory reps and chemists a great deal of knowledge is available just for the asking about specific use, traits and their particular formulas. All it takes is a phone call. In the interest of speeding things up, we use mechanical buffing to obtain the sheen on the various pieces we push through here; anything from flat to satin to ultra high gloss can be achieved with an investment in the right buffing system. Feel free to ask more about that if you want as we are still tuning our finishing techniques to get better and faster. Finishing is an ongoing learning process that involves a lot of time, a lot of money and a lot of energy. Cheers, Rob

bkaimwood · November 02, 2016, 07:55:54 PM

The key to reaching where you want to be is this... get it to your final coat, or application...sand it out with fine sandpaper, consider wet sanding to remove blend...dirt and what not. Then buff it out...with the proper steps you can bring it back to the final coat sheen or gloss minus the blems...

Larry · November 02, 2016, 08:10:50 PM

Quote from: lowpolyjoe on November 02, 2016, 05:57:52 PM
if i sand it smooth, it looks a bit dull, so i'd have to live with that or sand through several grits if i want to try to get the gloss back.

I sometimes use Waterlox Marine finish because I'm far to lazy to do all the coats and sanding. After the last coat has dried for several weeks or a month I crumple up a brown paper bag and rub the finish out with that. It gets rid of dust nibs but doesn't knock down the gloss hardly at all. Don't know if it will work with Epifanes or not but might be worth a try.

tule peak timber · November 02, 2016, 08:40:40 PM

Hi Larry, I read your post and I am instantly reminded of using crumpled newspaper and soapy water on the army barracks windows let's just say a few decades back. The different finishes we are talking about here will most definitely react differently to your suggestion. Personally I think waterlox is a terrific finish, not legal where I live and I wish it was. It is a phenolic resin with a tung oil base and proprietary solvents. That said, it is very much like good old fashioned varnish that was available years ago. I sure hope the waterlox company somehow adapts and stays alive. Cheers, Rob

lowpolyjoe · November 03, 2016, 07:38:15 AM

thanks again guys.

regarding the newspaper/paperbag approach, i was thinking about trying steel wool to knock down the nubs. It works pretty well on shellac, brings down the gloss a bit, makes it very smooth to the touch. Not sure how it would work on this varnish. it's easier to rub with a steel wool pad than sand paper (for me anyway).

i been trying to avoid power sanders because virtually every time i use them i end up cutting through the finish at some point. also, this was a predominantly hand-tool build so i was sort of trying to keep with the spirit of that

i'll be sure to post a couple pics when i finalize the finish.

Kbeitz · November 05, 2016, 07:34:33 PM

I use the green kitchen scratch pads for my final sanding.

lowpolyjoe · November 06, 2016, 06:28:00 PM

I'm calling this done.

Here's what the finish looks like a couple days after a fresh coat (coat 5 I think?). Looks very glossy but you can feel a lot of little imperfections with your hand

This is after sanding with 320, 400 and then rubbing with #00 steel wool. Matte but very smooth to the touch. I only sanded the seating surface since that's the only part you're likely to touch.

Currently the bench is going on our deck so no ground contact and might even be out of the rain under the eves of the house.

woodworker9 · November 07, 2016, 09:54:17 PM

If you have enough build up, you can, if you desire, get rid of the small nibs by sanding with 600 or 800 wet/dry, followed with a buffing out to whatever sheen you desire.

As far as steel wool goes, I'll only share my own experiences and failures. I don't use it on exterior work, only because if you leave any small particles behind, they will leave rust spots on the furniture when they oxidize. I learned this the hard way after have small steel wool particles, embedded in a bench that I just didn't see, leave nasty rust spots on an otherwise beautiful bench.

Just my .02, and the bench is looking good from where I sit. Do keep in mind that Epifanes recommends 7 to 8 coats for "best results". PITA I know......