Anyone have any thoughts on a sawmill planer? I know I've seen some concepts out there, and I'm thinking of something similar to the Logosol/Norwood log molder, but not quite as much versatility, and a lot cheaper. My thoughts are a 4 post carriage that rides on the rails with potential for not only vertical adjustment but also lateral. This would allow someone to slightly disassemble a store-bought board planer, mount it to the carriage, and have a beam planer that has more width capacity due to the lateral movement. I've been designing it in a CAD program, so I'll have to post the concept once I'm finished. My end goal is to have a reliable/reproducible planer for less than $1,000, including the store-bought planer. Commercial potential? Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Hi,
yes,this i want to see,bert
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=MKA%20KP312
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyNh39oUnvE
Here is one Wood-Mizer has that will run on an LT15 track.
Well, now, don't that just slop your dripper. My first introduction to that tool, Bibbyman.
if you do a search I think you will find that some one here did that already. I can't remember who, but I remember a thread where someone took a 12" planer and mounted it to their mill to plane beams down. There were pictures and everything.
Some one will be along soon that mite be able to locate it.
FB
The product from bailey's is interesting, but seems like a lot of labor, not a lot or precision, and if you read my price point, a lot of money. The Woodmizer product is much closer to what I'm thinking, but in order to keep cost down, I'm willing to sacrifice the molding capability. Would be interested to find out how much that one costs though. As to the guy who's done this before, I've seen the post, and no offense to him because I'm sure it works just fine, but I'm looking to design something a bit more professional-looking and would like to be able to have a cost-effectively repeatable process for others. I've done the homemade sawmill thing (bandsaw riding on trailer tires, alaskan mill, etc), and seen plenty on this site, but unless they're done by a true pro, there's no resale value.
I might do something similar one day.
I was looking at the logosol site, thgey sell the PH260 from moretens. Check their spindle moulder/shaper thing one day! Way cool a machine. May be it's the same company now.
MacGyver
We will await your success. ;)
Check this topic started by frwinks
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,44187.0.html
Thanks Jeff. That's the one I was thinking of. Now I've got the thing bookmarked.
FB
Thanks Jeff,
That's definitely the idea of what I'm planning on. I've seen another one that looked a bit more cobbled together, can't remember which forum it was on though. I'll have to get the designs together soon...I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks for the replies.
It would be nice if the planer head could be attached to a piece of box steel, the same size as whats used for the adjustable band guide. ???
Remove the band, remove the adjustable guide and slide the planer attachment into the hole where the adjustable band guide was.
Up and down, side to side and no extra carriage to take on and off the mill.
If you could manufacture a simple piece that would fit common mills using common planner heads ( slight variations for different manufactures ) you might be able to sell 1000 small ones at 10 dollars each as opposed to 10 big ones at 1000 dollars each. You might be able to sell the plan as pdf for 5 bucks to people that want to make their own.
Sell em on eBay.
You would not be competing with the existing moulders out there.
With the lower shipping costs you would have a much broader customer base.
If you could send it to Canada via USPS instead of UPS it would save me lots of brokerage fees.
If you made one for a delta planner and a Norwood mill, I would be willing to give you a 100 bucks for 10 bucks worth of steel.
Just to save me 2 days of messing around with a welder and grinder that I dont own.
I would be very reluctant to spend $1000 plus $120 in tax, along with $400 in shipping and another $150 in brokerage fees for an unknown product, without a bricks and mortar store behind it.
But a $100** plus $10 for shipping would be much easier to slide past her that holds the purse strings ;)
(And I just picked the numbers out of my head)
Just my 2 cents. :) :)
In fact I think I am going to buy a welder and go and make some myself.......... :D :D :D :D
Bibbyman, I know this came up before in an earlier topic, but as far as I know, that Woodmizer planer is not being sold in North America, only Europe(Poland). Has that changed?
frwinks made that sawmill planer from a bench top planer, but I wonder how long it's life will be and how often you will need to change blades and how difficult that will be(will realignment be needed etc). The professional grade like the Logosol or the Woodmizer, are designed with heavier duty motors, bearings, and heavier blades. Plus they've taken blade changing into account for these designs. In my opinion, by the time you buy the bench top planer, make a carriage, spend all the time etc, you're going to have at least $2500 in time and expenses into it, and the end product will be inferior to the Professional one. For another $2500 (Logosol unit costs $5000) you could have the real deal, and it would have resale value. Just my opinion.
OK, just got off the phone with a Woodmizer rep in Indy. The MP100 Woodmizer planer/molder is now available in the US as of this year. It's $4495 and available with either a 230V 1PH (60A) electric motor, or a 460V 3PH (20A) electric motor.
Planing capacity is 20.5"
It's made to go on an LT15. Bed extensions allow you to move the saw mill head out of the way for planing and visa versa and of course to allow longer timbers.
Problem is that the LT15go (New for this year- comes mounted on a trailer package- good thing) cannot be extended with bed extensions. They have not designed extensions for it yet, and it seems they don't have plans to yet. I told him that they need to get on that as I'm planning a purchase in the near future and that will affect my decision.
losttheplot,
Looks like someone else has had a similar idea (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23672.0.html) , and it seems to be a bit more along the lines of what you were talking about, minus the cross-travel ability. I had thought about suspending it from my existing Norwood carriage, probably wouldn't be too hard, and the cross-travel hooked up to the blade guard handle is a great idea, I was just worried about the accuracy/perpendicularity of the whole thing, and the precision of the adjustment. I know I had a bear of a time tuning in my Norwood with the leveling screws on the head, and I'm not sure if the head vertical adjustment will be able to match the precision capability of the planer. I'll take a closer look at the mill this weekend and weigh the options....thanks for the ideas!
Mac
What is the end purpose of the planer? To just plane out the sawcut marks and follow the general curve of a beam? Or is it to joint one face straight and remove any curvature of the beam?
A planer follows the board, whereas a jointer is to straighten one edge. Just wondering?
If it's on the mill track, It's going to act like a jointer. It will not follow the curvature of the beam. This is the advantage of a sawmill planer - to create a straight plane. In the case of timber framing, it would be useful in straightening a dry timber that has just a bit too much crown or twist, so that you can use square rule layout on it without having to snap lines.
I agree that would be the end result.
But I'm wondering what MacGyver had in mind.
Planers won't make very deep cuts and beams can have a fair amount of warp.
I'm not sure making many passes with a planer head to straighten a beam is very efficient. Just as well make a bandsaw cut in one pass. ;)
Now, if planing green right after sawing and before drying warp occurs, then the planer will turn out a clean surface in a pass or two.
I plan on planing seasoned beams. If a beam is warped, the band may want to follow the grain, no? Will the band give you a level cut? The planer will give you a level surface. Have a look at the video's of the Logosol planer or the Woodmizer one. They are much heavier duty than a table top planer and can remove more material quickly. I would be less apt to plane green wood as it could move as it dries after. You could mold green logs that interlock if you are log building, because as long as you assemble right away, they can dry in place and be held in place while they dry, less so with beams.
Beenthere,
The main purpose would be for exactly what you assumed. Looking to give beams that are close to square and straight a nice finish. I think the depth of cut might be 1/16" on my planer, and I think that'd be a healthy cut, especially on a hardwood. On anything with any significant warp or twist, it would definitely be more efficient to just make a pass with the mill. As for the green lumber, if you're building small outbuildings or sheds with green lumber anyway, offering a planed look to the building would increase the value. Just my thoughts on the concept, I'm sure some will disagree
Another attachment could be wire wheels, there is a market for petina beams, I think that's what there called. You see them where they look like they have been pressure washed or sand blasted I believe they get that look from wire wheels._
I'd take a hard look at woodmaster planers. Two reasons, very simple design with mostly off-the-shelf parts and a supplier for those parts that aren't off-the-shelf. You could by a 25" planer head ($312, $212 for an 18") with "tapers" (shafts) and mount them in pillow blocks on a shop made carriage. It could be a pretty simple raise/lower mechanism powered by either a horizontal shaft gas engine or electric. I would base the carriage design on either the logosol or woodmizer offerings. Plus woodmaster heads are compatible with moulding knives anyways. I would strongly consider a power feed attachment of some kind (gear motor on a chain drive) for best results. Good luck.
Ryan
Hey guys, i might be a new ager hippy, i think i have some etheral connections with some of you. I've been thinking of building such a railed planer for a fortnight or ma be a smidge more. To do what the logosol or WM do, plane and shape. I was thinking of wire brush yesterday too when reading this. And another cool gizmo would be a "random adze" something with several of thoses festool curved heads to imitate the adze marks, which would be powered and freeewheel onto a shaft, so you would get the proper aged look when pushing the thing, they woiuld hit the wood, then bounce backwards and soo on, make blades marks and adze groves.
Good ideas guys, but for now I'm going to concentrate on getting the proof of concept down, and work out accessories later. I'm afraid with those kinda of additional options, I would be close to cost on the big factory planers and molders, and there wouldn't be a whole lot of advantage to making my own. You got my brain going though. I'm very familiar with flail mowers, and the random adze mark idea might be a similar concept. I don't know how random it would actually turn out though. I don't think the brush idea would be too hard, but in my experience with wire brushes, you can only run them in one direction so long until the bristles begin to lay down in that direction, and lose their effectiveness. Unfortunately RPH, I think you're right about the power feed. I'm very familiar with metal machining, and if the feed rate isn't consistent, the finish is terrible. I think the feed rollers built into the planer might help, but they may not have enough grip on the log to move the carriage along. I guess we'll find out....
I would forget about feed rollers and use a chain drive to pull the "head" along the tracks. The feed system for a Timberking B-20 is what I'm referring to. With wood, you've got a lot more forgiveness on feed speed/consistency, but it sure helps. If you do decide to hand feed, make sure you aren't "climb" cutting or the head will run away from you.
Ryan
Hi everybody.
Mcgyver, i would forget about the rollers too. At first, i would go push. See how it goes. Imho, it's kind of better, as when you hit knots you can slow down. That's from having planed lotsa wood with my 13 inch haldheld ryoby plane.
When you look at the logosol, you see that it's way easy to make. Get a electrical motor. Singlme or three phase, depending what you want. Get something like thoses http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Hydro-Planing-Blocks-320-135-40-4-Blades-/290594821200?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item43a8cd1450 on ebay or somewhere else. Turn an arbor, two pillow blocks, a pair of puleys. Litle cariage and up and down movement and you're all set. Myself, i think i would make it a separate unit from the saw. On a trailer. Like this, if ever i would have a lot of rafters to plane on site, like on last job. It would be way easier than with the ryobi.
Here we say, 1hp per 4 inch or aproximately.
Bye.
Max.
Hi guys
Norwood has offered large-capacity log moulders for a couple years now. The smallest, the LM410, can plane up to 24" wide while the largest, the LM410XL, can plane up to 31" wide.
Both Log Moulders come equipped standard with 16" planing knives and the heads can slide laterally to plane large beams (of 24" or 31" as mentioned above). Of course, you can change the knives in the head to moulding knives with various patterns to shape logs for log home construction. Norwood's Log Moulders can run on virtually any other sawmill (provided they have two rails). The LM410 can fit mills with track 33" to 38" apart and the LM410XL can fit mills with track 40 ½" to 45 ½" apart.
Have a look at the LM410 series planer/moulder on Norwood's website at http://norwoodindustries.com/en/content/Products/norwood_industries_planers_moulders/Norwood_sawmills_log_moulder.aspx
Happy milling!
Mike at Norwood