Jeff needs help on well question.

[Wildflower]

Jeff has been in the UP all week trying to hand drive a well. He was at 27 feet driving 1 1/4 pipe when his homemade driver broke. 2 length of  3/4 inch pipe each 2.5 feet long dropped to the bottom of his well. The 3/4 pipe is not hollow it is plugged off. Will water still come around it or should he just quit. He thinks the water is between 30 and 35 feet.

[Gary_C]

It may be possible to fish those pieces out of the larger pipe. One method would be to glue a strong magnet like a cow magnet into some 3/4 inch pvc pipe and try to lift those pieces out.

Or maybe to guide a wire down inside some pvc pipe and hook the pieces and pull them out.

It kind of depends on what the 3/4 pipe looks like, but the water could flow up thru and around the inside of the 1 1/4 pipe but long term it could cause rust in your water.

[Autocar]

Guess I don't understand what you have I always thought that in the U.P. you drove a pointed pipe with a bunch of little holes drilled about a foot and a half from the point then screw another pipe on repeating this till you were in the water table. Then the water came though the holes and was drawn to the surface by your pump.

[scsmith42]

It may be possible to fish those pieces out of the larger pipe. One method would be to glue a strong magnet like a cow magnet into some 3/4 inch pvc pipe and try to lift those pieces out.

Or maybe to guide a wire down inside some pvc pipe and hook the pieces and pull them out.

It kind of depends on what the 3/4 pipe looks like, but the water could flow up thru and around the inside of the 1 1/4 pipe but long term it could cause rust in your water.

He can also machine a gentle taper on the inside of a pvc pipe that would allow him to slip fit it over the end of the 3/4 pipe and snug.  OR, if he has power available he can cut a smooth end on some garden hose, slip it down to the pipe and hook the other end up to a shop vacuum.  The suction may be strong enough to keep the pipe sucked to the end of the hose, allowing him to pull it up.  He might have to install some type of soft rubber connection on the bottom of the garden hose to help ensure that the pipe snugs up to it.

[Corley5]

It needs to come out.  It'll restrict the flow of water if left in.  I'd try a magnet on a stick.

[Wildflower]

Jeff Got the 2 pieces of pipe out. 8) 8) 8)
He used pvc pipe and split about 3 inched length wise and taped 3 sections together and slipped it over the metal pipe and pulled it out. Thank you all for your help.

[Gary_C]

Yankee ingenuity prevails.   8) 8) 8)

No grits needed.  :D :D :D   (not what I typed but you get the idea anyway)

[Corley5]

  8) 8)

[isawlogs]

 Tammy , I'm happy to hear he got them out.  8)

[WDH]

Smoked Sucker

:D :D :D :D

I had to try it myself.

[thecfarm]

Better than thecfarm brand grits.  :D

[mesquite buckeye]

Can I just say G R I T S ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Texas Ranger]

I kinda feel that way about smoked sucker.   

[coxy]

I kinda feel that way about smoked sucker.   

Can I just say G R I T S ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Warbird]

What I really want to know is if he got water or not? 

[stumpy]

I believe the furthest you can pump water with a shallow well pump is 24' He may want to check with a local well company about this.

[Magicman]

I imagine that after he smoked sucked that sucker pipe out he took a much deserved break.   8)

[Mooseherder]

Our shallow well pump is located by the house.  The run to the well head and check valve is around 80 feet.  The well is around 30 foot deep.  The check valve should allow for longer run if needed.

[redprospector]

Wow! You guy's are lucky. 200' deep would be considered a shallow well here.

[isawlogs]

 I have a surface well, spring comes out of ground, have three ciment tiles and a cover, one of the tiles is out of the ground.

[Jeff]

Big day today. I finally got internet here at the cabin so I can keep in touch now while I work on our property, plus I THINK I HAVE WATER!

Know anyone else that drove a well using an lp gas tank and a TV antenna? :D

Here is a short video clip of my home made driver. The tank is filled with sand and weighs around 100 lbs.

http://youtu.be/ybUyk670_pk

[Jeff]

 

 

[thecfarm]

It worked. Was the tank full of sand,water??

[clww]

Wow! You guy's are lucky. 200' deep would be considered a shallow well here.

It would be about halfway there at our cabin in the mountains. :(

Glad it's working out for your there, Jeff.

[chet]

Ya must have some real nice soft ground.    I don't think yer setup would punch through da sod at my camp.  :-\  I think my 40 is sittin' on one giant boulder.  :'(

[WmFritz]

I'm a bit surprised you punched through the frost! 

I was on the NOAA site earlier tonight and noticed Lake Superior's average surface temperature today was 37° f. (2.8°c)

The average bottom temp was 36° f.  (2.2°c) 

[Jeff]

I didn't get internet here until today because of the frost. They had to do a road bore to get the dsl line over to this side of the road, and they didn't figure they could do it until now.


 

[redprospector]

Wow! You guy's are lucky. 200' deep would be considered a shallow well here.

It would be about halfway there at our cabin in the mountains. :(

Glad it's working out for your there, Jeff.

Yep, 350 to 400' is about average around here.
I envy you Jeff, wish I could punch a well like that. 

[sandhills]

You're gonna have to change "where there's a will there's a way" (old saying) to "where there's a will there's a well".  OK that was pretty pathetic!  Glad you got water though.

[Warbird]

Yeah, that joke was a bit soggy for sure.  ;D  Pretty cool, Jeff.

[Roxie]

Jeff...our Forestry Forum Macgyver!   8)

[luvmexfood]

Yep. Around here you have to bring in a drilling contractor. They drill and drill all the while you are watching your dollars go into a hole in the ground hoping they hit good water soon. Then there are the caves they hit and have to case thru. My sister and BIL had a well drilled and they hit muddy water. Real muddy water and it never would clear up.

[Radar67]

Yep, 350 to 400' is about average around here.

I have a manual that notes a 3000 foot deep, hand drilled well in China. I'll have to check the dates on when it was drilled, but it was before any type of industrial advances were made.

[beenthere]

Radar
Found an article about the well drilling (for salt brine) in China to that depth.

http://www.epmag.com/Production-Drilling/Ancient-Chinese-drilling_4266

Quite interesting... says year of 1835 to a depth of 3281' (1000 m).

[Radar67]

Beenthere,
That is not the article I read, but it is the same well and time frame my manual describes. I had considered hand drilling my well when I first decided to go with a well. It is interesting what we are capable of, using what we have at hand.

[barbender]

Nice job, Jeff! Hand driven wells make for some interesting solutions. I helped with one once, we started with a post driver, then went to a tripod setup like Jeff's, then finally a tripod and a tractor with a capstan on it, so all you had to do was put tension on the rope.

[OneWithWood]

Jeff...our Forestry Forum Macgyver!   8)

My thoughts exactly.
Now if I would have spied any duck tape I might have gone with Red Green... ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Great stuff.  8)

[luvmexfood]

Come on. Internet at the cabin. It is supposed to be a remote place to get away from it all. No phones, no tv, just quite relaxation. Thats what our cabin was. Not even electricity. We did haul in propane for the hotwater heater and range. Gravity fed spring water.

Our power was off for about 6 days here one winter. Stayed ok just though: if I was only at the cabin it was set up for no electricity.

One thing I do advise is to keep some spare food that won't spoil incase you get stranded. You can always bury some canned goods but we kept some simple boxed dinners and pancake mix etc. May have to eat pancakes three meals a day but it is better than a snowball.

[Jeff]

We are pumping 5 gallons plus a minute through this little hole. All we had on hand to rig a pump.


"Selfie" of my first glass of water.


 


Lou helping me celebrate the well.

 

 

Video clip of the first couple minutes of pumping the new well. 8)

http://youtu.be/RncVyNY2buE

[Magicman]

   That is good reason for a celebration.  8)

[Corley5]

 8) 8) 8)

[sandhills]

Well there you go!  8)  (alright I'll quit now  ;))  Nice job and i'll bet a good feeling to see the hose running that much water.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Congrats on the successful well drive.

I "helped" my grandpa, dad and uncle drive one when I was 9 years old.

Grandpa and uncle Alvin made a driver out of a heavy piece of 8 inch pipe filled with metal punch out waste from a local equipment factory.

They put a capstan in place of the belt pulley on the WD 9 to do the heavy lifting. The pipe/casing they used was 3.5 inch. The first two pieces were perforated. Well was 168 feet went done and water came to 64 feet.

That casing rusted through about 5 years ago. Dad had a new well drilled with a 6 inch casing about 10 feet away. The driller pumped it at just over 30 gal/min before the level started to drop. The new 1 HP submersible pump is hanging at 120 feet on and 1.5 in line. Dad has lots of water now.

[StimW]

Here is Florida we can wash down wells for irrigation.
I have put down a couple dozen as deep as 42'.
I have a 30'er now that I use for my garden.
I take 2" PVC , cut teeth in the bottom, hook a garden hose to the top (with 2 90's so hose doesn't kink) and start washing. I put 10' pieces together with female connectors and a steel nipple between them.
Once I get down far enough I take the top fitting off and put 1 1/4" down inside with a 10' PVC well point and remove the 2". Connect a pump and run it until water is clear.

[Jeff]

Saturday I finished up the well. I had 3 feet of pipe sticking out of the ground yet, so I dug out the pipe down to the first coupling and replaced the 5' section with a 3' foot section, the only pipe I had to buy for the well. I got pretty lucky, as while digging the hole out big enough to get down there with a pipe wrench to take the pipe apart, I encountered several large rocks in the 14"-15" class and around 100 lbs each, so they were there, but I missed all of them with the pipe. After taking the 5 footer out I could see that the water level was only down another 6 inches. Almost an artesian! 

I took down my tripod and found a slightly bigger line to try and pump through. We timed the well and it was pumping 10 gallon a minute via a 5/8" line.   I now have an elbow and a plug in the well pipe until we are ready to use it. 

[thecfarm]

Water is mighty important. Glad it worked out. Ten gallons too.

[Alcranb]

Saturday I got pretty lucky, as while digging the hole out big enough to get down there with a pipe wrench to take the pipe apart, I encountered several large rocks in the 14"-15" class and around 100 lbs each, so they were there, but I missed all of them with the pipe.

Sounds like pebbles by thecfarm standards of rock measurement and removal! 

[Peter Drouin]

Did you bleach the well to kill the bacteria that might be in the pipe?

[Jeff]

No, and I'm not going to either. There is no reason for bacteria to be in this well. We've had a professionally drilled well put in at the cabin (my Sister) and we have had one here about 10 years ago. I was there every step of the way on both, and neither were bleached or chlorinated.  I think bleaching might be a regional practice depending on the water supply.  Our water here is pristine.

[SwampDonkey]

A new well and one that sits a long time unused is bleached before use here Jeff. That being said, it wasn't too many years ago a lot of folks were on spring wells here and I doubt they was ever bleached. I think we dug a new well at grandmother's in 94, spring up until then. And my cousin was on the same spring, he dug a well a few years ago to.

[barbender]

It's not the water itself,  but bacteria that could be present in the pipe you drove in.

[Gary_C]

I agree that it is not the quality of the water that is an issue. It's the iron pipe that you introduced into the water table. Here is what is written in Wiki:

Iron bacteria can be introduced into a well or water system during drilling, repair, or service. Elimination of iron bacteria once a well is heavily infested can be extremely difficult. Normal treatment techniques may be only partly effective. Good housekeeping practices can prevent iron bacteria from entering a well.

Water placed in a well for drilling, repair, or priming of pumps should be disinfected, and should never be taken from a lake or pond.
The well casing should be watertight, properly capped, and extend a foot or more above ground.
When pumps, well pipes, and well equipment are repaired, they should not be placed on the ground where they could pick up iron bacteria.
The well, pump, and plumbing should be disinfected when repaired.


They normally disinfect all new wells here with chlorine tablets but you can use chlorine powder, bleach or dairy sanitizer. Both the bleach in a jug and the dairy sanitizer can be used and they are both sodium hypochlorite with only the concentration being stronger for the dairy sanitizer. Bleach is 4.4% and sanitizer is 6.6%.

Normally the sanitizer is placed in the lower part of the well and left there for at least 24 hours. Then you just pump the water out on the ground till you have flushed the chlorine from the well. It's no big deal.

[Jeff]

Iron bacteria is not a health issue. It is a cosmetic and palatability issue. Its the slimy rust looking stuff that sometimes occurs in a well.  This is a driven sand point well. it does not have a typical casing where you store water and then pump it out. I will chlorinate the new tank and pump when I get it, but the well having been pumped for a long period to rid it of sand in my opinion is not at all a risk for bacteria unless there is bacteria in the actual water supply and that is highly unlikely here. The well will be tested once it has a permanent pump and supply line in place. I already have the supplied test bottle and paper work in the truck. It was recommended to me by the water treatment facility on how to take a sample of the new well and it did not include any type of chlorine introduced into the well itself.

The other wells we have done were PVC wells. Pretty hard to get Iron bacteria from a PVC pipe.

[thecfarm]

We just had ours water tested for the wife's cooking license through the state. Have to have it tested every year.

[chet]

After taking the 5 footer out I could see that the water level was only down another 6 inches. Almost an artesian! 

I took down my tripod and found a slightly bigger line to try and pump through. We timed the well and it was pumping 10 gallon a minute via a 5/8" line.   I now have an elbow and a plug in the well pipe until we are ready to use it. 

I think you may have drove dat point inta da township water line.  :D

[Jeff]

Today I got the well house almost done. My design allows me to work on the well without having to bend way over and reaching down in a well house. Its built low so it simply covers up with snow in the winter when its not being used. If we need to use it in the winter, I'll shovel it out. The 120 volt pump is in and works good. I'm also plumbing in a 12 volt system with a future solar charger so we can get water without the generator hooked up.  I need another check valve and a fitting before I can finish up that part of the system.



  

 

[red oaks lumber]

nice looking system

[WmFritz]

I like the hinged base idea.
Saves your back from lifting the whole house off for access.

[Jeff]

 I added some extra roof over hang for the stop when open, and the overhang in the front works as the lift point. The two short chunks of 2X4 you see in the front aligns everything when closed.

[Jeff]

The base is made from bug killed tamarack 4x6 that Burlkraft and I sawed up a couple years ago. Outhouse left overs.

[sandhills]

Very nice Jeff.

[Brucer]

And if you ever need to do repairs, when the cover is open you have a convenient surface to spread out your tools .  I'm sure you planned it that way, too ;D.

[OneWithWood]

Where's the cup holder? 

[Freedom6178]

I'm curious about the pipes possibly freezing in winter?  Or is the water level under the frost line.. I am really interested in doing this at our property in the UP. (Bark River area). Any info on the equipment needed/used would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks

[Jeff]

Freezing is a big concern. I've added my union so I an undo one thing and remove the entire pump for winter. As for the well that has a high water level, all you have to do it put something in there to displace the water. I am going to use a chunk of light pvc with a cap glued on the bottom.

[r.man]

I work on a lot of seasonal water systems and many of them use a " dog house " style building for the pump and tank and that is by far the best one I have ever seen. A close second would be the same thing without hinges. I have worked on ones that looked as good but they were fixed buildings with doors. The nicest looking one was a work of art, raised concrete slab, 2x4 walls, peaked shingled roof with soffit and fascia, siding that matched the cottage and a proper door with locking door knob. The whole thing was the size of a big dog house but to work on the pump you had to kneel on the ground and stick your head in through the door. Beautiful for looks, terrible for repairs.

[Jeff]

Video of the workings in my well house. I got the 12 volt off grid part working today. I have a couple hoses in there now cluttering things up but I'll clean that up somehow. I've got a couple ideas on how I'll to do that.

http://youtu.be/9rfVnS8wffk

[WDH]

You have to have a good sense of accomplishment for doing this.

[OneWithWood]

Looking good, Jeff.  Have you thought about installing an elevated or pressurized tank that you could fill using the generator?  Then you could have a supply of water that would last a while without the need for a power source.  Of course it would probably not function during the winter.

[yukon cornelius]

I used an old but non leaking hot water heater in our first little cabin for water storage. it was on a shelf in the closet area. 30 gallon electric tank was short enough to elevate it above the sink. I used a frost free through the wall spicket mounted low outside to connect to fill it or drain it. mine had an inlet through the side low and another up high. the upper outlet I put a vent hole to let air out when filling and in when empting. it was also the full indicator as water would come out when full. I would fill it when it was above freezing. 30 gallons goes a long ways when its just gravity pressurized. water pressure = 1/2 psi per foot of elevation. I had a chalk board near the sink I would keep a ballpark record of water use. it worked great when we were hauling water til we got in our house and were hooked to the well. I spent a whole winter in the 12x12 cabin with the family coming out every night for dinner.

[SwampDonkey]

That sure looks great Jeff. Me, I'd have to hire ya to get it done. :D

[Ruffneck]

Very cool! I believe water is the biggest gamble a person can make when buying undeveloped rural property. The charge is the same whether it turns out to be a good well or the worlds deepest post hole. Water is life! Well done  :D

[Jeff]

The story is finally told of how to drive an Off grid water well with a 20lb propane tank and a T.V. antenna! 

Making this video I took as a challenge. My previous video on putting up a solar fence I got a comment about I probably wont make a video of driving a well after beating on that grounding rod I had to put in.  So, I felt it was required to do so. Cause I could This well was on the property I sold in order to buy back our family cabin

STEP FORWARD GUILTY CHALLENGING PARTY!  :D ;)

Drive a Water Well with a Propane Tank and a T.V. Antenna Offgrid. NO MONEY!! - YouTube

[Old Greenhorn]

I enjoyed that video a lot. Making something valuable from whatever is laying around is where it's at.
 I also enjoyed the prior video but frankly you exhausted me with all that driving. Holy cow, I needed another beer before it was done. I think my hands were even hurting. I would have just cut that sucker off with a hacksaw and called it 'good'. BTW, you can run several ground rods and tie them together to improve your ground and another trick is to lay down some salt and water it heavily, increasing conductivity.
 The 'testing process' you used made me laugh harder than I should. You do know that you can buy a tester for about 8 bucks right? :D :D

[Jeff]

Ill touch it again and video it fir 8 bucks!

[jb616]

The story is finally told of how to drive an Off grid water well with a 20lb propane tank and a T.V. antenna!

Making this video I took as a challenge. My previous video on putting up a solar fence I got a comment about I probably wont make a video of driving a well after beating on that grounding rod I had to put in.  So, I felt it was required to do so. Cause I could This well was on the property I sold in order to buy back our family cabin

STEP FORWARD GUILTY CHALLENGING PARTY!  :D ;)

Drive a Water Well with a Propane Tank and a T.V. Antenna Offgrid. NO MONEY!! - YouTube

So the video was about driving a well years ago which fulfilled the challenge of it not being about driving a well. I still want to see a present day well driven there .  I have a plan to drive a well in each of my food plots and have a mobile well system so that I can irrigate. I am very fortunate to have sand with no rocks (almost).  I seen a rock the other day and had to get down on my hands and knees to examine it because i couldn't believe it. Well done @Jeff 

[SwampDonkey]

It was a well executed exercise, whether it was luck or the smarts. It was definitely ingenuity and thrift. You hit water, and that was the goal. ;D Up here I'd probably not hit water that shallow unless I looked the ground over real good. Because there are good springs here and artesians near the surface. But where the house is here it's 80 feet down and through hard shale, even that is lucky enough, digging where there are no good signs on the surface. On grandfather's farm and his neighbor's, no problem finding good shallow water there.

Great video.

[Jeff]

Thank you Donk!