Circ Powerplants 6cyl vs 4cyl on headsaws ??

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Im looking at New motors at the moment for the Meadows manual  both cummings  ;) ;D 6BT 170 hp @2300 rpm and a 4BT  125 hp @2200 rpm both have plenty off tourqe at the rated hp but il prob run the engine speed about 10-15% lower  ;) there is only $3200 differance in price but im leaning towards the 4BT for fuel consuption  ;) ;D It will also only be running the carriage 54" max saw  ,hyd feedworks (10hp max) this pump will also runn the log deck and turner which is nuttn as they only work when the carriage is stationary  ;) and off the one pump and the edger will runn of its own 65 hp motor

Just thought id post to see what you Blokes think that have been running diesel headrigs alot longer than me  ;) think of it  ;) as i think 125hp should be plenty as im use to only working with around the 80 hp tractor mark on my mill and most off the Karas ive sawn on in the past  ;) Thanks 

Reguards Chris

[Ron Wenrich]

I've run mills with both a 4 cyl and 6 cyl Detroit diesels.  I've not noticed any difference, but I don't cowboy on the mill.  Some guys like to pull the handle and see how fast they can saw.  The saw dies, and they cut off line.  That's due to the saw turning at a speed slower than its hammered for. 

I run 125 hp electric on my mill.  I don't have any problems with that hp.  If you were running a bunch of auxiliary equipment, then you would need the extra hp.   

[sgschwend]

I have a 4bt in my forklift.

I don't think of it as economical, but I am comparing it to the sawmill's 3 cylinder Perkins (not fare I know).

Both engines are loud, the loudness is not the exhaust noise.

[JSNH]

I am running a 4BT 100hp on my manual mill. 52" blade with sawdust blower 2 1/2" shanks. It has enough power. With the additional 25HP over mine you should be in good shape. I was told at full feed speed you need 20hp per tooth engaged in the cut FYI.

[Gary_C]

I think both the 4BT and 6BT engines are good economical engines. But personally I think 125 HP from that 4BT is pushing it too much. One I had in a Valmet forwarder was rated at 95 HP and that was without the intercooler other goodies. The replacement was with the intercooler and different injection pump and was rated at 115 HP or so. I don't know how they pushed them up to 125 HP.

Make sure it has an engine balancer built in as those four cylinders do vibrate a lot. The first one I had did not and it shook so much that a bolt came unscrewed inside the front cover and the bolt fell on the oil pump gear and it suddenly lost oil pressure. Cummings is bad for claiming they do not need a balancer, but do not believe them and I still have that old engine with a bad crank for proof.

[bandmiller2]

Chris are you going to run a sawdust blower??Their is little differance in fuel economy between a large engine loafing along and a smaller engine up agenst its governor all the time.Depends on future plans for expansion,but either engine will do the job.Staying in its torque range the larger engine could be throttled back more ,extending its life.Frank C.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Frank i neglected to mention the blower which is a richardson #5 14x8 impeller 8" in and 8" out which will have a reduction to 6" to increase volicity that will chew up another 10/15 hp +  as ill be blowing it atleast 30' from the back off the knees/shed to the end of the pipe  ;)
Like you said Frank  if im going to upgrade this mill down the track to an auto dogging ,tapers and Digital annalog settworks ill be needing the extra hp anyway to runn a larger Hyd pump than now  ;) as im thinking along the lines off a staged upgrade starting with the dogs as the carriage has only done 18 months work from new before i got it  ;) and pluss itll be a hell of alot cheaper than buying a whole new mill thatll do the same job in the end ;) :D ;D ;D 8)

But ill focus at the thing at hand which is motor selection  before i get too far ahead off meself ;) :D :D Like has being said a larger motor going at Full noise 2200 odd rpm (which is pretty bloody quick for a diesel plus i dont realy like running them that fast)  will be needing a rebuild sooner than a larger motor just ticking over at say 16.1800 rpm all day you also get peak torque at about that rpm band anyhow  and for the extra $3200 why bother getting stingy  ;) :D :D

That brings the Motor cost to $19950 au for the 6Bt with HD Clutch  or $16280 au for the 4bt with HD Clutch so the differance is acctually $3670

Im also debating wether to go the whole hog from the start or just get the carriage running properly logdeck ,turner ,18" wide x 40'+ dead roll outfeed with chopsaw and edge on the carriage as ill only be aiming at about 2600 bft avv production per 8 hr day  with 2 men about 40/50% of this will be inch stock   ;) the rest will be 4x3 and 8x2 and 3 " dunnage and garden sleepers for a start which i dont think will be streaching the realms of realty  ;) :D to reduce the size of the loan im going for by about $15 odd k (Edger)

Which will make my buisness plan look somthing like this now  ;) ;D 8)

$40000 Meadows Mill propper inc Motor 6bt cummings
infeed to outfeed new husk ,ways 55' modular frame ,hyds + feedworks , new 52" Bh payne + 2 boxs tct bits and andrus 12v sharpener , shop built chop saw for removing rough ends and afew other lil bits n peices pullys ect that i dont allready have  ;)

$22000 82 model Ford  A-62 loader 50hrs on rebuilt motor ,trans ,driveline repinned n bushed artic+loader frame and resprayed n detailed a nice looking unit  ;) ;D

$20000 for working capital to get a good stockpile of logs ahead of me and grade sawn timber drying instock for treatment to start retail sales

$82000 Loan all up with repayments im comftarble with at $1640 a month or $410 a week ive only ever had two small loans before ones paid out and ive got one on the go atm which is only $575 a month and about $180ks worth of assets so i dont think im doin to bad i just want to finnaly get a steady cashflow going  ;) :D :D

Ive done the bloody math somany ways over the years  from this  ;D to complete tunkey plants  : and it allways comes back to this as its what im comftable with and itll give me a realy good base to expand from as my cashflow gets better and i can bring other equipment i own into production over time n out off cashflow ;)

Ron like you said Mate i also dont like pushing saws/mill equip to the limmit as thats when things can cause dramas like overloading a saw dont know howmany times ive told blokes that its not how quick the saw cuts but how effient things are leading upto the cut and after that make tha big differance in this game  ;)

I was thinking that the 6bt was going to be overkill on the hp    but when you take into account the drop in hp when you drop the revs that bit (bout 10%) and all the stuff ill prob endup adding to it over the years  ;) :D : i think the larger motor is the way to go and stop being a tight butt about things   ;) :D :D :D ;D

Reguards Chris