Fransgard PTO tractor winch

[Greenie]

A a 30HP 790 John Deere compact tractor.  I'm yarding out tree length hardwood - maybe 16" at the butt (small enough so I can lift rounds to a woodsplitter without rupturing myself) one at a time with branches attached. I've used these Fransgard winches for 20 plus years and like them a lot.
Question... When I'm pulling out a tree on level ground and the log somehow catches hard on something can the tractor rotate over backwards if I'm not fast enough with the clutch? The winch, it seems would prevent a complete backflip because the base of the winch would contact the ground before the front tires were more that 3 feet off the ground.
Thank-you!

[beenthere]

The answer is Yes, you can stand the tractor up on it's tail end. Best be fast. 

[230Dforme]

The base of the Winch would touch the ground and keep on pulling 😳
I have a tree service and everything from the chipper to the log truck has a winch on it
Have an Autocar truck w oilfield winches on it, 50,000
and 100,000 pound Tulsa Refnek
If the tree doesn't move, the truck drags backward 
The truck won't go over backwards, the tractor will
Happens quick

[thecfarm]

I wouldn't count on it.

[TreefarmerNN]

I have a Tajfun and a 790.  I've hooked it to some stumps and the winch will pull the tractor back until the winch moldboard digs in sufficiently.  So far, it's not lifted the tractor at all because when the winch is on the ground the pull is at or below the rear axle. 

I don't normally run the tractor at a high rpm but have stalled the tractor.

I might add that I won't use the winch unless I can put the moldboard on the ground and put the 3pt lever so the winch can dig in as necessary.  If I skid with the tractor moving, the winch is as low as I can go without touching the ground hard, just in case something snags.  Being that the winch is a 3 point connection, it should (repeat should) stop rotation but I'm still going slow just in case should turns into could not.

[BargeMonkey]

Eh, anything can be tipped over. Shorter wood behind a farm tractor scares me more than rolling over backwards, you hook a stump. Had someone get killed down here yrs ago, towing wood behind a track loader with no ROPs / FOPs, butt end caught, cantilevered the log up and smashed him into the seat. Local guy 8-10yrs ago took a hard turn on a tractor, no roll bar, logs hung a bit and he knocked a dead one over, smashed him into the wheel face first dead and the tractor kept on going.

[John Mc]

The tractor will not rotate just from using the winch while the tractor is sitting still with the winch on the ground.

What is a danger is when you are driving out skidding a log: If th elog hangs up on something solid and those wheels on the tractor are still turning (or trying to), you still have that torque to content with: if the engine cannot turn the wheels forward, it will try to turn the tractor backward. There are a few possibilities if the log does not break loose from the obstruction: the wheels beak traction and you just spin the wheels, you stall the engine, or the tractor flips over backwards.

[Greenie]

The tractor will not rotate just from using the winch while the tractor is sitting still with the winch on the ground.

What is a danger is when you are driving out skidding a log: If th elog hangs up on something solid and those wheels on the tractor are still turning (or trying to), you still have that torque to content with: if the engine cannot turn the wheels forward, it will try to turn the tractor backward. There are a few possibilities if the log does not break loose from the obstruction: the wheels beak traction and you just spin the wheels, you stall the engine, or the tractor flips over backwards.

I was hoping the moldboard part of the winch would contact the ground as the tractor started to "wheelie" either stopping forward motion of the tractor (only 30 HP) or otherwise preventing the complete flip. The 3 point hitch would act like wheelie bars on a drag car. Naturally any number of things can happen but it's safer to drag logs behind a winch than just a tractor.

[Big_eddy]

Not familiar with your winch, but are you pulling from up high or down low? Low is always safer, but then the butt drags in the dirt and can catch. Up higher will tip you much faster, but less likely to catch.

[thecfarm]

I've had my tractor on 2 wheels a few times, but I step on the clutch and bring the front wheels down to earth, where they belong.
As I posted I would not count on that winch to help out.
Being alert will save you more.

[beenthere]

If the tractor rares (or rears) up then the 3ph has no down force so will raise and allow the front wheels to lift. Could flip over if not quick on the clutch. But moving forward at a reasonable slow speed, there is plenty of time to stop forward motion, thus stop the flip over backwards. And in the flip, the winch attachment will stop a complete flip as well as the ROPS. Thus little to no real danger. 

Does a horse rare up or rear up? Hmmm?

[Greenie]

Not familiar with your winch, but are you pulling from up high or down low? Low is always safer, but then the butt drags in the dirt and can catch. Up higher will tip you much faster, but less likely to catch.

I almost always pull up high from the cable. One tree at a time.

[thecfarm]

It's also a good idea to know what your tractor will pull within its limits.
Now I just do firewood with my winch and a few logs for my sawmill.
When My father and me was cutting logs, quite often the tractor was over worked. There was logs an easy 3 feet and more across.
But now that I am just doing firewood another trip is much easier on the tractor. And sometimes safer.
No need to work the tractor more then it is designed for.
Now hauling   is another story.

[TreefarmerNN]

The tractor will not rotate just from using the winch while the tractor is sitting still with the winch on the ground.

What is a danger is when you are driving out skidding a log: If th elog hangs up on something solid and those wheels on the tractor are still turning (or trying to), you still have that torque to content with: if the engine cannot turn the wheels forward, it will try to turn the tractor backward. There are a few possibilities if the log does not break loose from the obstruction: the wheels beak traction and you just spin the wheels, you stall the engine, or the tractor flips over backwards.

I was hoping the moldboard part of the winch would contact the ground as the tractor started to "wheelie" either stopping forward motion of the tractor (only 30 HP) or otherwise preventing the complete flip. The 3 point hitch would act like wheelie bars on a drag car. Naturally any number of things can happen but it's safer to drag logs behind a winch than just a tractor.

As long as the pull point is below the rear axle, the moldboard will stop rotation.  If the attachment (where the cable exits the winch) is higher than the rear axle, the moldboard may not stop the rotation.  Probably the safest pull is from the tractor drawbar but that guarantees a log in dirt because it's low.  Pulling from a winch that is almost dragging the ground is probably second safest.  Nothing beats operator awareness though.  Keep the speed down because really bad things happen if the tractor is motoring along at a good clip and a log hangs a stump.  That could flip the tractor either backwards or more likely sideways, snap a cable or throw an operator off the tractor or if belted in, smash a head into a steering wheel. 

[GRANITEstateMP]

Remember too, most, tractor 3pt arms can lift up.  They can't however hold down.  If you've ever towed a trailer with your tractor via the 3pt arms, chances are you've learned this.  If you start down a hill with trailer in tow, hit the brakes sometimes a heavy enough trailer with enough momentum will push the arms up to there highest point.  Hope that makes sense and helps too

[g_man]

Not familiar with your winch, but are you pulling from up high or down low? Low is always safer, but then the butt drags in the dirt and can catch. Up higher will tip you much faster, but less likely to catch.

I almost always pull up high from the cable. One tree at a time.

If you are pulling from the top pulley I would worry more about being pulled over sideways. Make a tight turn and you go over sideways with a small tractor much easier and quicker than going over backwards. Don't even need to be snagged for it to happen with a heavy hitch.

gg