Working in cold weather – the human factor.

[Bibbyman]

How do you crazy guys up north stand this cold weather? Better yet,  why would you put up with it?

We've been lucky that the last couple of winters have been mild.  This winter hit us pretty hard around the first of December with 15+" of snow.  Now we've had ice covered with snow and more ice for most of January.  Plus the cold just ain't going away.  Usually when we get a cold snap it only lasts a few days and then we get a few days of tolerable weather.  Not this month and no warmth in the near forecast.

I know you guys have adapted to the cold climate – both in body and methods of work.  But I find it most difficult to deal with. 

I have cold weather cloths but that only complicates the problems.  First,  if you dress heavy enough to stand the cold, then you're too hot when you work or step out of the environment for any length of time.  Second,  I find it difficult to work in heavy cloths.  They weigh me down more than my natural weight does already and they restrict my movement more than my old creaky bones do already.  Third,  I need to take heed to when my body needs service and start at it sooner.  I've had a number of close calls when I've put it off and then had to fumble getting gloves off, etc., etc., etc.

Lastly,  I've noted that my ability to concentrate and make decisions are diminished as the temperature goes down.  :

Yesterday it was 17° with a 25mph wind making the wind-chill down to about 0°.  I had three lug bolts to replace on the AGCO and I thought I could manage that and get some idea if I could get other outdoor work done.  I'm sure it took at least twice as long as it should have and by the time I was done I was froze in some places and sweating in others.  The cold wind just took the air right out of me.  I was done.

[sawguy21]

 :D We are used to it but that does not mean we have to like it. The secret is to dress in light layers which can be shed as you warm up rather than in one big heavy coat. Your body heat will warm the air trapped between them. There was a thread on boots which had some excellent suggestions and wear loose fitting gloves and a hat, we wear toques pulled down over the ears for a reason.
Time yourself and try to avoid working outside for long periods, allow breaks to warm up. If you feel too cold and start shaking, shut 'er down and get inside, that is the start of hypothermia.

[BBTom]

I have had some problems this year due to the weather.  It has gone from hot to cold with no in betweens. I find it is all a matter of getting used to it.  get out for a couple hours each day until you find that it doesn't bother you anymore.

[DanG]

We don't often get those extreme conditions down here, but when we do, I just stay inside.  Like you, Bibby, I can usually just delay things for a day or two.  I've been spending more time in the shop lately, due to chilly temps and wind.  It gets pretty uncomfortable after a while, especially for my hands.  I keep a cheap hand-held hair dryer on the bench and warm my hands with it every now and then.  You can also stick it up your jacket for a minute for a quick warm-up.  It sure takes a lot of the misery out of it.

[Sprucegum]

Lots o' folks try to deny it but the plain truth is , we don't do near as much work in the cold as we do when its warm. With experience you learn to dress so you have the least amount of bulk for the most amount of protection which will get you up to 3/4 of your prime capability. Your efficiency still drops in direct proportion to the temperature. And there comes a point where you drop everything and say
"I'm goin' in the house"

Thats why fireplaces and hot toddys were invented.

[Gary_C]

Probably the most honest answer is that we do not tolerate it any better than you. And the older you get, the harder it is to handle.

Sure we are better prepared with equipment  and some heated shops, plus your body actually does get accustomed to the cold. For example, I got a little frostbite in my fingers many years ago. Since then, when it first gets cold in the fall, my fingers get absolutely stiff and almost useless. As I become used to working in the cold, I do not have any problems like those first few times.

Just recently, on a very cold windy day, I was driving back to the landing with my forwarder and the DNR forester was waiting for me. As I got out to talk to him he said this was sure not like the old winter days of logging with just a chainsaw and heavy parkas. He said that I was sitting in that cab with my hooded sweatshirt unzipped and not even any gloves on. I replied "it's not as easy as you think, it gets too hot in that cab."    :D

Oh and another thing, that forwarder has a diesel fired heater that can be set to start automatically an hour before I arrive in the woods. When I get there, the cab is warm, the engine water jacket is warm, and the hydraulic reservoir is warm. All I have to do is start the engine and work the controls till the cold oil in the lines has been replaced by warm oil from the tank. Greatest thing made.  8)

One other thing to remember. I spent four years living in Pennsylvanna, north of Philly, and people would ask the same question, "how do you people from the north (Minnesota) stand those below zero temperatures?" My reply would be that I had never been as cold as it was right there when the temperature was about 38F with the wind blowing. That cold will go thru any clothes that you can put on.

[Stephen1]

When you are outside as sawguy says lots of layers. I do not wear any cotton clothes next to my skin only polypropolene or polar fleece. these items do not absorb your sweat so they stay dry next to your body. #1 thing in the land of the cold, dry- dry and more dry clothes next to the body. I will change my socks 2-3 times a day if I am out in the cold all day. I usually wear either insulated coveralls for the really cold, like  -15c  or below and regular coveralls for above that. The more you are out in it the easier it becomes.

[beenthere]

Yah, like Gary_C said (just don't lock the truck with da keys inside along with all the warm clothes and gloves and things-like da keys : ).

For working outside in the cold, I choose silk underwear and wool shirts, wool jacket. The natural fibers can't be beat, IMO. Poly underwear is close, but I've found silk to be much better and more comfortable. But keeping active while out in the cold, is important too. Circulating the blood to the toes, ears, and feet help a great deal. 

The small packets of 'heat' are great too. When I sweat (I do that easily even when below zero F), often the back of my neck gets chilled which seems to then affect the rest of me. I open one of the heat packets, and tuck it in under the collar on the back of my neck, and feel that heat all over.

Keeping warm on a deer stand all day (6 am - 4 pm) used to make me creative, especially when the high was still below zero.  A few pieces of charcoal kept burning on the ground between my feet was my life saver at the time. I've changed my hunting tactics considerably since those days. Also, thanks to temporary global warming, winters have not been that cold around here. 

[Bro. Noble]

Probably the most honest answer is that we do not tolerate it any better than you. And the older you get, the harder it is to handle.

:D :D :D Our church has a large number of retired people.  In the winter we gain several seasonal members from Michigan and Wisconsin, and Minnisota-------but we lose some of the local members who winter in Florida and Arizona :D :D :D

[stumpy]

Well, I have a different answer. I love it.  I'm 54 and I've lived here my whole life.  I"ll take 20 degrees sunny no wind over 80 degrees any day. Below 20 I still like it, but the equipment doesn't. I usualy wear some sort of high tech material undershirt(preferably turtleneck) and a sweatshirt over that. Then a fleece vest and maybe a light jacket, but I don't like much on the arms cause it gets hard to move.. For the bottom I wear a pair of jeans (I hate longjohns) and below 30, a pair of Carhart insulated bibs. Above 30, regular unlined bibs.

Probably more info than you wanted.  I read somewhere that people who live in a 4 season climate are physicaly and mentaly healthier than those that live in a one season climate.  My wife totaly disagrees and would move down south in a heartbeat.  I believe I am just plain lucky that the cold doesn't bother me that much.

[Paul_H]

 :D Stumpy,it's a good thing cold doesn't bother you in WI.It reminded me of this story.


Baby polar bear goes to daddy polar bear and asks "Dad, what kind of bears are we?"

Dad says "We're polar bears, son."

The next night, baby polar bear goes up to mama polar bear and asks "Mom, what kind of bears are we?"

Mom replies "we're polar bears."

The night after that, baby polar bear goes to daddy polar bear and asks "Dad? Are you sure we're polar bears?"

Dad says "Yes son, we're polar bears."

Baby polar bear asks "are we pure-bred polar bears?"

Getting irritated now, dad says "Of course we're pure-bred polar bears. Why do you keep asking?"

Baby polar bear says "Because I'm $@&*^ freezing! That's why!"




Dress warm!

[beenthere]

Paul
We spos' ta be gessin what you are doin ta that tank?  Maybe its the one ya jus found at the junk yard, and is 22".  ??? :

[Murf]

How do you crazy guys up north stand this cold weather?

I know you guys have adapted to the cold climate – both in body and methods of work. 

But I find it most difficult to deal with. 

Bibbs, I gots lotsa stuff I can pile on, layers upon layers ole son, man-made stuff, natural stuff, furs from pret'near every type a beast dat walked this country, and few from beyond by a fair piece. Dat keeps me pret'near warm on most days I venture out.

But ..........   :

There's only so much I can peel off when it gets ta powerful warm 'afore I'm arrested or run outta town wit peoples laff'in at me.  :-[

In the greater scheme of things, I'll take the cold.  ;)

It's kinda like Tom payin in peas fer sawin' and tail'n fer him. I'm not fussy on peas much, but I'd take 'em over da baloney samiches.......   :D   :D  :D

[Bibbyman]

I worked with a Swede from Minnesota.  I don't think I ever seen him with a coat in the winter.  Most of the winter you'd see him in a short sleeve shirt. He got transferred to Bismarck, North Dakota.  I think he even wanted to go!  :-\

I just got in from sawing.  I've been out more than four hours.  21° with 11mph wind and snow flurries feels like 10°.  I'm a little chilled all over and my face is numb and my mustache is cold and drippy.  I got some work done but it wasn't fun.  :(

[Murf]

I worked with a Swede from Minnesota.  I don't think I ever seen him with a coat in the winter.  Most of the winter you'd see him in a short sleeve shirt.

I'm not that bad, but close, 'specially in warm weather like that, 21° ?? Lucky sod.   ;D

In the summer time I fly those whacko skydivers at our airport sometimes, at altitude it's often in the low 50's and there's no door on the plane, so you have a 100 mph windchill as well, but not directly on you.

I think it's kinda nice. Refreshing even, shorts and t-shirt weather.  ;D

Yup, they think I'm kinda nuts too, it's not just you.     :D  :D  :D

[Aroostooksawyer]

We moved to Northern Maine for the cold and snow from NJ.You can always get warm fire,more cloths,physical activity.But if it is 80 degrees outside how do you get cool if working in the woods.Anyway 21 below last night and single digits during the day.Working in the woods layered clothing is the way to go.If finger tips get cold I warm them  up on the rayco diesel exaust take glove off fill glove with  exaust a short time put back on toasty warm .One of my favorite books is "Paradise Below Zero"Sorry to ramble just love the cold.Oh no bugs in the cold also.

[sprucebunny]

NO BUGS  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I love the cold ;D

The other thing I like about cooler weather is, when you have more clothes on, you have more padding for wrestling with trees and other lumber. Fewer bruises.

[thecfarm]

I usally don't work out when it starts to get down towards the single digits.I don't have to do it,so why do it.But heated handles on my husky keeps mine hands nice and warm.We like the cold here.It keeps the population down.More trees to cut,less pavement.I dress in layers.I do not work in a coat,I wear a tee shirt,long john top,fannel shirt and 2 big sweat shirts.Long john bottoms and so called  wool pants.If this don't keep me warm,I go in.I have been wearing a face mask for the last week when I do the morning and evening chores.Been in the single digits and below.I don't like that at all.If you ever come to Maine look me up and you will see why I put up with the cold.I love it here.

[Sprucegum]

The only thing ya gotta do is keep yer blood circulatin' and that's easy - pick a fight with the next feller that walks by  :D  :D

As kids we did it all winter long, with big mitts and big parkas no harm done. Body blows only - a bloody nose is no fun when it freezes to yer face

[Bibbyman]

The only thing ya gotta do is keep yer blood circulatin' and that's easy - pick a fight with the next feller that walks by  :D  :D

As kids we did it all winter long, with big mitts and big parkas no harm done. Body blows only - a bloody nose is no fun when it freezes to yer face

Hey! I don't need to pick a fight with the next feller - it's Mary! But we usually only exchange verbal abuse.  :D  (we did get into a butt kicking contest one time where we locked arms at the elbow and danced around in a circle a couple of times exchanging "POOMPHS".  :D )

That is one problem... When we're sawing,  I'm running the mill and Mary's offbearing.  My face will be freezing and I'll be cold to the bone and she'll be shucking her Carhartt insulated bibs and heavy coat.  I've been doing most of the sawing alone in cold weather so I could break up the standing at the mill controles and move some.

[Larry]

You might want to investigate a parabolic infrared heater since your mostly stationary.  Our farm store sells em for bout $50 if my memory is correct.

[Minnesota_boy]

While you're standing out in the cold wind a lot of your body heat is lost through your natural radiators, where the blood flow close to the skin surface.  The neck and ears are superb for radiating heat.  If it's cold, cover them.  A balaclava works well for that.  Put on a cap with ear flaps too to keep the sun out of your eyes and reduce the radiation.  Gloves with long cuffs keep the wind from another area where the blood flows close to the skin surface, your wrists.  If it's real bad, I put on ski goggles to keep the wind out of my eyes (I tell people that it's to keep the sawdust out of my eyes and they believe me). 

[Frickman]

If it's above 10 degrees, I go to work. Below 10, I think about, mostly because the equipment doesn't like it. Last week we had some days of 15 degree dry cold with little wind that felt warmer than 40 and wind and rain. In a former life we milked cows twice a day, no matter what. There were a few times that we milked at 20 below. Now that was getting chilly.

I think that you get acclimated to the cold over time. I spent some time in southern Alabama one summer and it was HOT. 100 degrees and high humidity about killed this northern boy.

[leweee]

Ditto what Frickman said.

[Bill]

The older I get the colder I get - till I get good and moving.

Now I'm still kinda working the kinks out but usually have a plan. First off - no cotton. It holds moisture next to ones skin which really cools you so  use wool or synthetics ( or silk ). Second - don't sweat. Evaporation draws the heat outta ya faster then anything. So I strip off layers before I get hot enough to sweat. Next - watch the wind. It'll carry off heat faster then you can make it. Either work behind a shelter or find an outer layer that keeps the wind out. I'm especially sensitive to wind burn ( mild frostbite ? ) on my face when the wind chill really kicks in if I'm not careful. Since I wear glasses its hard not to fog 'em if I wear some kinda face mask but if it gets really cold I gotta protect my face. My feet also perspire no matter how cold it gets ( go figure - I can't ) so I too need to be changing to dry socks during the day ( see rule #2 ) so my feet don't freeze. A really good pair of gloves ( or two ) rounds things out. Last rule would be to make sure nothing fits too tight - it keeps out the blood flow needed to keep warm.

All that being said I still enjoy using a "monster maul"  to be splitting wood outside in single digits ( no wind tho ) in a t-shirt and watching the steam rising off me - leastways till my back says that's enough - you ain't a kid anymore     >:(

Oh and I hate bugs  . . .

[PB Logging]

When should ya cry uncle and head for the house? 

It's my responsibility to make the decision for others.  Production balanced by safety and equipment considerations.  I like a consistent standard to go by not just a gut feeling. 

this last week has been brutal by local standards.  I really have a hard time calling off a days production or ending the day short.  Of course, "busy work" abounds but what about in a week or two when that is caught up for the time being? 

Today, I found myself 60' in the air flying a bucket air temp of 11f with 30mph wind gusts (says the weatherman).  Stump gridning is getting caught up but standing still next to the controls, full exposed to momma weather ain't no fun I was told today.  Sure production drops but whats acceptable?  We are men that work in an inheriently hazardous industry. 

I'm interested in suggestions on actual #'s or other points of reference as to when to say when.  I suppose different #'s for different appliations would help too (aerial work, ground work, equipment operation, etc).

[Phorester]

We have a devil of a time with Boy Scouts on winter camping trips.  They're used to spending a lot of time in a heated house. Normally that's where they go to eat, take a bath, sleep.  So naturally they get warmed up at home after spending several hours outside.  When out camping, they don't realize they will not get warmed up in the same way. We tell them that whatever the weather is, that is what they will be in, day and night, 24 hours a day for however long we're camping. They will not be going inside a house where they can warm up.

My point being that we try to teach them that since they can't create heat (even campfires aren't too warm if the wind is blowing in cold temperatures), they have to conserve heat. Keep hats and gloves on, keep their coats on, get out of the wind as much as possible.  Dress in layers, as has already been recommended.  When they bed down for the night, to take off all their clothes they wore that day.  Even underwear and socks.  They have sweated in them and they will chill them in their sleeping bags. Put on clean ones right inside their sleeping bag.

When working in the winter I will bring an extra undershirt and socks when I'm outside on cold days.  If the ones I'm wearing get sweaty from working, I will change into clean ones so there's not a a damp shirt or socks directly against my skin.  Amazing how that helps me warm up again.

[Phorester]

PB LOGGING, here's what the USFS says about working in cold weather .  Scroll down to about page 380.  They don't really give any specific directives based on temperatures, winds, etc. which was a surprise.  But it might give you some ideas.

www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsh/6709.11/FSH6709.pdf.

[BBTom]

One good thing about cold weather is that it points out the weak links in any equipment.  Just this morning I found out that my double 225 amp link on the 40super was weak. 

First log on the deck at 8 degrees, and when I went to roll it over, the hydraulics quit on me.  Guess the combination of cold fluid and big load took a bit more than 450 amp.  I have spares so no big deal,  but after I warm up my hands and replace the links, I may run the pumps for a minute or two, just to warm up the fluid, before trying to do more.   

[Bibbyman]

I have spares so no big deal,  but after I warm up my hands and replace the links, I may run the pumps for a minute or two, just to warm up the fluid, before trying to do more.   

I hope you're a better person than I.  I've had to work in that box a number of times and I always end up leaving a little skin around the edges and saying a few bad word.   



This was after my first mod of removing the contact strip and running cable through the cable tray.



This is after taking out the 12v pums, and replacing them with an external power pack - also re-located the battery back to the pump box. 

So now the little fuse/solenoid box is just a junction box. 

I just won't work on anything in weather this cold.  If it breaks,  I let it set.

[BBTom]

seems like I still have all my skin, Bibby.  small sockets and long extensions is how I do it, but you still hove to reach back in there to get the terminal on top of the fuses. 

I used to have trouble with the little micro switch that turned on the hydraulics when you move a valve handle, so I had put a toggle switch on the panel to bypass that switch and run the hydraulic motors.  Have never had the problem since, but the toggle will come in handy to warm up the oil for a minute before heavy lifting in cold weather. 

It got up to 16°F today and didn't feel too bad.  Three weeks ago I was freezing my fingers at 30°.  Just a matter of getting out in it for a while each day.  The human body amazes me how fast it can adopt.

[Bibbyman]

A little off the subject but the only thing that is working right in this cold weather is our extrnal pump system.  A while back I put a heating unit in it and now,  even when it's this cold,  it's ready to go.  The heater keeps the oil between 50 and 80°.  A couple of pulls of the valve levers and the hydraulic functions think it's June already!  You can feel the extra warmth in the levers coming out of the valve body after a while.  I think some of it transfrers up to the Accuset board and it runs better.

We had to get out and deal with two slab customers today plus cut/split/load/deliver a ton truck load of far-wud to a customer that was down to 6 sticks and they were in the stove!  Got back in at 3:00 and the wind chill was up to 0°s.

[Gary_C]

I used to work with a Finnlander from Hibbing, MN and he would always go out to their cabin on a lake when it was this cold and sit in the sauna. That sounded good untill he told of chopping a hole in the ice on the lake and then running out of the sauna and jumping in the water, then back in the sauna.   

You have to be nuts or very desperate for something to do to like something like that. Ya, us Scandanavians seem to like things unpleasant and I can only say Lutefisk to prove that.   : :

[Corley5]

We had a high of 7 here today with wind and snow and we worked out in it.  Carhart Blizzard Wear and good insulated boots are the key and we're adjusted to it also.  Got a little chilled first thing this morning but after everything was running it wasn't bad as long as we kept moving.  Stay in one place in the wind for long and you noticed it  ;D   After lunch the bar oiler hose broke on the processor and my hands got cold changing it as I couldn't wear gloves and work with the small parts.  My hands warmed up once I got my gloves back on and was using them again.  No biting insects today  ;) ;D

[Jeff]

In the big mill human comfort was never the deciding factor on whether we ran or not, only whether it was going to be detrimental to the machinery. Not my decision. The attitude there was people were replaceable but equipment cost money. I caught heck a couple times for shutting down when the guys were having trouble but the mill was running fine.

Now a days I consider a cold day the perfect excuse to stay indoors near the fire and that is my decision. ;D

[Phorester]

Suppossed to only get up in the teens for the next couple days here with 15 - 25 mph winds, and nighttime temps around zero.  Just pure coincidence that I plan on doing office work the next few days    ;D

My Boy Scout troop goes camping regardless of the weather as long as it's not too dangerous to drive.  We try to teach the boys to dress for it.  Amazing, though, what some of them wear.  Hard to get them to bring clothes based on the weather forecast for the camping trip.  It's obvious that their parents aren't outdoor types.   Even when they bring the right clothes, they will stagger out of their tents in the morning and run to the campfire to get warm, wearing no hats, coats, or gloves even thought they have them in the tent.  I reckon they think the fire will warm up all the outdoors.

Working 12 hour shifts on forest fires in cold weather is interesting too.  The ones who don't bring extra underwear and socks are condemned to wear their sweaty damp clothes they have on their backs the entire shift.  It can get darn cold at night on an early spring fire.  Having dry socks and underwear to change into halfway through the shift, especially socks, makes all the difference in the world.

[Sprucegum]

Back in the 70's -20 Farenheit used to be the cut off temp. Below that you could quit work if you wanted and nothing was said and if there was a bit of breeze we were told we had to quit.

Then we changed to Celsius temps and now no one knows when to quit  :(  >:(

at -30 C very litle gets done no matter what anyone thinks.

[sawguy21]

That is why I left central Alberta, got real tired of the long cold winters and short summers.

[Bill]

Phorester

For awhile some years back I was a Boy Scout leader. We took our kids out camping once a month pretty much whatever the weather was ( unless there was a blizzard the day we were leaving ). We used to prep the kids the week before by going over the cold weather camping section of the " Field Manual " ( think I got that name right - PM me if you want more info about it ) . I remember some good practical info came outa it that the boys liked - like :
***put lots of insulation under you cause the ground sucks the heat right out of you
***wear a hat ( and gloves ) if your feet are cold ( you have veins near the surface that lose heat to the air quick if you don't ( even to bed iffen its real cold )
***don't expect to eat canned food - it freezes and pops the can - ditto for eggs
***we found that bringing extra layers overcoats/scarfs/boots,hats and such for after sundown let you hang out for awhile before jumping into your bag
***the obvious - bring a warm bag with extra blankets if real cold - and stay dry
***they said to eat a snack/drink hot cocoa before bed - no we found the kids just wanted to go to the john all night - better off just doing a couple jumping jacks to get warmed up before jumping into a cold bag

Also I remember about a week after we made a cold weather trip ( 0's-20's ) another troop went out. The adults brought a propane heater and set it up in their closed van. They didn't see the morning . Best to prepare well and keep an eye on what everyone's doing.

Feel free to PM me if you want to trade war stories . . .

[Bibbyman]

What about the mental aspects of working in cold weather day after day? 

It gets depressing bundling up and putting up with all kinds of procedure changes and end up at the end of the day with half the production you would have on a comfortable day. 

Then you know there is a lot left to do once the weather breaks.  I tend to leave everything go I don't have to do just trying to get something done.  For example, taking the slabs to the slab pile in 10° weather, facing a 20 mph headwind, I'm not going to stop to pick up a chunk of slab that falls off.  If I can still drive by it, it waits until it warms up.  Multiply that by a hundred times something has been left undone and I've got days of work ahead of me just cleaning up the mill and logyard.

And then there is maintenance and repair work that don't get done in cold weather.  Unless it's a very simple and quick fix,  it stays in need or repair until it gets warmer.

Then there is the general "cabin fever" that sets in.  During the non-winter months there is always something that can be done outside or someplace to go.  In the cold of the winter, there is nothing going on around this area.  No county fairs, no steam engine shows, not nothing.  Beside,  we can't get out very far, very long as we need to be here to feed the fire and keep everything going.

With "cabin fever", comes the weight back.  While more physical in nature, it's still depressing.  Back in the spring I starved my butt off (well more like my belly) and lost over 20 lbs.  I kept it off until December.  But in the past two months I've about put it all back on and that's depressing.

I get so bored in the house, I've even resorted to pulling the VHS tapes off the shelves and boxing them up.  I've also broken down and washed the dishes.  Well, only once.


I'm guessing this is why Pokka dancing is popular up north?   eh eh  smiley_dozy_bored

[sawguy21]

I find I am not as alert when really cold as it is constantly on my mind. I have to slow down and think things through more or I make mistakes and either break stuff or have to do the job over.

[Qweaver]

For me, hobbies are the answer.  When the cabin is done in WV, I will build a hobby bench along one side of the loft where I can reload ammo and work on my RC airplanes.  So on those days when it's too cold or wet to enjoy the outside, I'll be happy and warm on the inside.  I really like being able to set inside with a warm fire going, looking out at the snow or even the rain and knowing that I don't have to go out...except maybe to bring in a little wood or fetch the mail.   But that can get old pretty quick if there are no hobbies to fill the time.  Having lots of windows to look out helps too.
Quinton

[stonebroke]

bibbyman

It is 90% mental. You have to have a positive mental attitude. IT ALSO HELPS IF YOU HIDE THE THERMOMETER. Winter is almost over. Look at it that way. March is all most here and that means the grass is going to start growing any day. That is what I mean about a positive mental attitude. Look forward. be positive.

Stonebroke

[Ron Scott]

Anyone been through the Marine Corp's cold weather training at Bridgeport , California? It will give you a better outlook on winter survival. ;)

[Sprucegum]

Bibby you may have SAD - Seasonal Affected Disorder.

Look it up , you got nothin' else to do  ;D I believe they even have some remedies for it  :P

I too have put on a few pounds since Christmas , I'm not getting out and doing enough in this weather. 20 years ago I would have been out anyway but I have been spoiled by too many nice winters.

  :( I wanna be spoiled again  :(

[Bibbyman]

I don't think I got anything like that.  I just hate to work in cold weather.

Anyone notice their teeth hurt more in cold weather?  I've got a good bit of dental work - root canals, crowns, fillings, etc. and my teeth are always bothering me in cold weather.

Got up to almost 60 yesterday!   8)

[LT40HDD51]

My brother was out working in High Level, Alberta last winter. Was about -35 plus a windchill one day (most days  >:(), and he ran across the yard from one building to another. When he got back inside he noticed a bit of chest pain, and another worker told him he got frostbite on his lungs  . Breathing in that super-cold air can actually burn the inside of your lungs, do it bad enough and it can put you in the hospital. If youre breathing very hard in that much cold, you need to keep your sniffer down inside your coat...

[Phorester]

BILL, ditto for me.  Eventually the older boys do dress right, but when 11 - 13 they continue to dress how they want to.  Most of the leaders bring extra socks, gloves, hats, for the Scouts who didn't pack theirs.  "My Mom didn't pack it for me" is a common response.  We say... wait a minute..., who's the one going camping here, you're Mom or you...    My troop cooks all the meals so we haven't had the canned food issue yet although we warn them about frozen cans in case they want to sneak something along.

The fleece bags that Walmart sells I think are good to add to a 3 season sleeping bag in real cold weather.  For about $15 you have a lot warmer bag.

I've always wondered how the Scouts got into the habit of a cracker barrel right before bed.  Seems like we're just rev'ing them up with sugar right when you want them to quiet down, along with a midnight bathroom trip as you say.

[Bibbyman]

I think I came to a point of equilibrium with the cold weather this week.  I got a lot done despite the cold.  We had one nice day when the temperature got up to the low 50s and that helped but then it fell back to the old routine of not getting above the mid-20s the rest of the week.

I got into the habit of going out before breakfast and plugging in the Terex.  About an hour later it'd fire up and I could work on the lot in the heated cab most of the morning.  We had got in three loads of logs over three days so each morning I had logs to sort and put away. 

I also went nuts house cleaning and sorted out a lot of other logs. 

In the afternoon the temperature was up in the 20s so I'd go out and make firewood.  I'd get a little heat from the engine on the processor plus every now and then I'd be in the cab of the Terex dumping firewood or moving logs.  The wind was low all week and there was some sunshine so that helped a lot.

By the end of the week I had the lot in really good shape and a good pile of firewood.  Plus we got the three loads of logs in to plump up or almost out status.  We made a few buck on firewood but otherwise there was no income from the sawmill.

[TexasTimbers]

We made a few buck on firewood but otherwise there was no income from the sawmill.

So that's what I've been doing wrong. I didn't know these things were supposed to produce anything but sawdust. Wish you had mentioned this before.

[Phorester]

Environmental cabs on heavy equipment sure make a difference. A couple years ago we had a 30 acre field fire on a cold windy day.  The reason it got that big was the 30 mph winds.  Of course that put the windchill down in the teens.  We had just got our new JD450H tractor with glass enclosed cab and my co-worker was putting in the fireline around the fire.  All our woods and field fires are fought by volunteer fire departments along with us.  There was him, and then about 20 firemen.

They were shivering, cold and wet, fingers cold, ears cold, could easily see your breath when you breathed.  My co-worker motors around the fire in his heated cab, in shirtsleeves and sweating because he was so busy operating the dozer he hadn't had time to reach for the switch above his head to cut off the heat.  He stops at one group of firemen, opens the door and lets out a blast of warm air and says, *DanG, isn't it hot today!

The rocks thrown by the firemen did no damage, but the cussing took off some of the
paint.

[crtreedude]

Well, when it gets cold down here I get a stiff upper lip and go and change from sandals to shoes. If it really gets bad - I will add socks.  :

[beenthere]

Phorester
Gotta be workin to keep warm.........that was the subject of the thread here.   ;D ;D ;D

Suspect they were sweaty from working, and got chilled while resting, at which time one can get cold. But then, start a fire to keep warm 

I sweat when in the woods, even at -F temps. I work in silk underwear top under a wool shirt. That combination lets me sweat but not get chilled when stopping or slowing to rest. I try to work slow to not sweat, but so far that doesn't work so well. But standing and talking will send the cold right through to the bone (or lockin da keys in da truck out in da woods with da warm clothes inside  ;D )

[Phorester]

"Gotta be workin to keep warm.........that was the subject of the thread here. "

Har-de-har...... ;D

[Bibbyman]

"Gotta be workin to keep warm.........that was the subject of the thread here. "

Har-de-har...... ;D

In my case....  I got to work so I can keep feeding my family.  If I didn't need the income,  I'd just hitch up the Silverstream after Thanksgiving and go south until spring! I think I could turn into a snowbird real easy.

I was about OK with this cold weather until yesterday when we were hit with 6" of snow and the girls didn't have school.  They've called off school again today and it's going to be bitter cold for the rest of the week at least.

[stonebroke]

Bibbyman You got to keep a positive mental attitude. It could be worse. Where I am(40 miles west of albanyny) It started snowing at midnight, at noon we have 23 inches and the tv radar says it is snowing at a rate of 6 inches an hour. It only supposed to last another 18 hours. Fortunately there is no wind or we might be in trouble. It could be worse, Redfield NY just finished a ten day lake effect storm at 141 inches, They think that might be a new record maybe.  So just look out your window and remind yourself you are a lot saner than us northerners.

Stonebroke

[Bibbyman]

Bibbyman You got to keep a positive mental attitude. It could be worse. Where I am(40 miles west of albanyny) It started snowing at midnight, at noon we have 23 inches and the tv radar says it is snowing at a rate of 6 inches an hour. It only supposed to last another 18 hours. Fortunately there is no wind or we might be in trouble. It could be worse, Redfield NY just finished a ten day lake effect storm at 141 inches, They think that might be a new record maybe.  So just look out your window and remind yourself you are a lot saner than us northerners.

Stonebroke

Thanks for the help...   I knew there was a reason I don't live in your area!  ;)

[stonebroke]

course when it is 80 degrees for a high in july and august we complain about how hot it is and we can't get any work done.

Stonebroke

[Tom]

I always wondered why I don't need income.  It's because I live down here.  :D :D    Work!?!?

[stonebroke]

we have to work to pay the taxes to keep the roads plowed. At least thats what they tell us they are doing with the taxes.

Stonebroke

[Faron]

Bibb, I kinda have to laugh at myself when I think I am cold nowadays.  Back when I was raising hogs, the longest days were put in on the coldest days.  Most of our hogs were outside.  We used some 80 gal tanks with drinkers that we refilled with a hose. They were kept thawed with gas heaters under the drinkers.  You could figure when it got about as cold as it get, after you had filled the tanks, sooner or later one of then would run over and need adjustment.  That involved taking off your coat, coveralls, and shirt, down to bare skin, and plunge your arm down in the water.  Usually the screen was stuck, so you had to struggle to get that off.  Few turns on the stopper, and all was well.  Now it really got cold as you removed your arm and slung it around trying to get it dry, because you never figured you needed to keep a towel handy. 

But that is not as cold as it can get.  Water turns to ice at 32 degrees.  Diesel fuel doesn't.  Once we had to help a neighbor load cattle on a - 15 degree Monday morning.  Had a big snow on, and had to start his John Deere.  It wouldn't run, and had to change fuel filters ,getting jelled fuel on our hands, of course. Then it was time to prime the system.  Those JD engineers had located the primer pump behind the oil filter, so you could only get two cold fingers back there to pump, without gloves, of course.  >:(   And now a guy wonders why his fingers are stiff in winter. ;)

[Bibbyman]

Finally! A break in the weather!   Got up over 40° today! 8)

The girls had been out of school Tuesday through Friday.  We got hit again Friday with another bitter cold front.  Started snowing Friday evening and didn't stop until Saturday mid-day.  It only left about 2" of snow but the 30mph winds made it too miserable to try to do anything outside.  The secondary and country roads were not cleaned.  I think the road crews are out of salt, cinders, and fuel.  Mary came down with an awful cold.  (she's better now but still not 100%). 

Don't tell anyone but I got so bored Thursday that I washed the dishes a couple of times that day and did the cooking.   :

Saturday morning Mary came down with a fatal case of cabin fever.   She'd had enough of being cooped up in the house with two wild girls and had to get out.  I wasn't going to be there alone so I went to town with her.  Son Gabe was left alone to fend for himself.  Wal-Mart was packed despite the bad weather.  By the time we got home the sun had came out and the wind died down.  The girls went out an played for most of the afternoon.  That helped.

Son Gabe and I sawed railroad ties today.  I know its Sunday but we'd not been able to saw in many days and Sunday is about the only day I can get his help.  It felt good to get out and get something done.  I was getting pretty lethargic being in the house most of the last two months and was almost afraid I couldn't put in a day's work.  Well,  we didn't really.  We started about 9:00 am and knocked off about 3:00 pm.  Don't want to over do it.

Maybe I'll sleep better tonight.

[Bibbyman]

Ah man!  It ain't even winter yet and I've already got cabin fever.  The short days, gloomy weather, and now a couple of days when it's not even nice to work outside is starting to take its toll.  To double the trouble,  Mary is keeping busy by cooking.  She's been wippin' things up in the kitchen all afternoon.

We sawed this morning as it was 60 degrees when we got up.  By 10:00 a major storm front was coming through that drove us inside.  The wind must have been blowing 50mph for awhile.  A bad thunderstorm came through.  The temperature dropped to 40 in a couple of hours.  It's now about 40 degrees with 20mph wind and light rain.

I guess I'll get another hand full of cookies and head back to the chair and TV.

[SwampDonkey]

It was 6 °F this am. And I put the long Johns on, a heavy sweater and Jeff's Forum Contest Jacket he sent me a couple years ago to keep warm. Oh and a nice Scottish made wool scarf around my neck and a toque to keep the glare off the noggin. I loaded up in the SUV and headed to the woodlot. I parked about 1/2 mile from the woodlot and then headed off on a walk. I took a grand detour through the old farm dad sold and over a couple more farms above there. I followed the property line I painted up there 4 years ago, then hit onto a logging road and walk around to the left in a wide circle and hit on a 25 year old logging road to walk back to the old farm. Then I walked across that 150 acre field, hit the public road and on back to the car. In that walk I was curious about a 75 acre lot that is for sale. I found it and it was one of those roads that I walked. It encircled the lot almost and all I could see was raspberry bushes, pin cherry and sparse clumps of junk trees and immature evergreen patches mixed with cedar, red maple and aspen. The road was one that was dozed into the subsoil and not ditched or elevated. Pretty much a wasteland. Shame, I remember a nice piece of woods there 5 years ago. It became obvious another woodlot was liquidated for a quick buck. The land owner inherited it from his folks and has gone through about 3 unsuccessful relationships since. I doubt it will sell. If they had build a better road it might have helped sell it. These wastelands don't fetch much, maybe $50-200 an acre. It's isolated by a farm field in front and I wouldn't want to have to travel across someone's fields to get to my woods. If I owned it I would plant some spruce in those raspberry waste areas. As I walked further north I seen an even worst site. Someone was trying to clear a 50 acre field in wet soil. Seen ditches 15 feet deep, piles of debris and pushed up roots and stumps as high as a barn. What a mess.  : They may eventually get it into shape, but it's going to be costly. It was about a 3 hour walk and I figure I covered about 800 acres in all. The old farm including mine was 435 acres alone. ;)

[Ironwood]

Sounds like you need an "indoor" or sheltered saw shed operation.

                Ironwood

[thecfarm]

Or stop boo-hooing about 40° weather.Bring it on I'll take some of that weather.  ;D In the low 20's and snowing.Looks like digging rocks is done for this year.I have 3 brush piles to burn.Will get to them now.

[Bibbyman]

This morning the sun came up and it was in the low 20's but no wind.  I went out and got an early start and then we sawed some cedar and cleaned out from under the mill.  We got a good little bit done.   It's still not "warm" out but the sunshine and no wind really make a big difference.

[ibseeker]

It's funny how you can get spoiled by the weather. It's in the 40's here in San Diego at night and DanG it feels cold!
I read about you guys living where it's really cold and I wonder how you do it. I live about 5 blocks from the beach and my comfort range is down to about 10 degrees each side of 72F....yup, I'm a weather sissy. I do enjoy going back to TN and experiencing the change, except in the summer. I prefer the cold better than the heat, there's only so much clothing you can take off and not go to jail! We spent some time at Thanksgiving a couple of years ago and it was in the 20/30's. My wife and I really enjoyed it but then again we weren't working in it very much. I ran into the heavy clothes problem that Bibbyman was describing so I'll try the layering method that was advised.

I hope this latest storm system isn't too hard on any of you folks. Best of luck and stay safe!

[SwampDonkey]

About the worst job during the bitter cold is the tally man, I'd rather be the tree hugger and most often I'm both as I do most cruising solo. ;D These days it's pretty much dried up with no one harvesting or planning much.

[Beweller]

A bitter cold January day.  I was walking along, slipped on an icy spot and fell into a barb wire fence.  My ear, very cold and numb, felt funny.  "Heh, John, ake a look at my ear!"  "Looks like you cut it.  I'll put on a bandaid when we get back to the truck."  That evening back at home, I ask my wife to take a look.  "ACK!"  Off to the emergency room, my ear lobe hanging on by a thread.  The nurse started cleaning things up--with a scrub brush!--got a look and asked "How did that happen?"  On a whim, I replied "Oh, my wife got carried away in a fit of passion and bit me."  The nurse stopped scrubbing, looked at me and said "AHHH!" and went back to scrubbing with greater vigor.

[Bibbyman]

 ......  Off to the emergency room, my ear lobe hanging on by a thread.  The nurse started cleaning things up--with a scrub brush!--got a look and asked "How did that happen?"  On a whim, I replied "Oh, my wife got carried away in a fit of passion and bit me."  The nurse stopped scrubbing, looked at me and said "AHHH!" and went back to scrubbing with greater vigor.

That's the kind of thing I'd do..   :D

I've made up my mind I'm not going out to saw when it's below 20 wind-chill. And that's it's been about half the time since the first of the year. I'm about to go out of my mind with cabin fever. 

My problem now is I can't get regulated.  I'll be in by the stove in the living room and I'll get so hot I can't stand it.  I'll go back to the back bed room and putt around on the PC and soon I'll get so cold I can't stand it.  And it can't be over 80 by the stove or 60 back in the back bed room.  Then in the bitter cold nights I couldn't get warm.  It was like I was chilled to the bone.

I've just come in from sawing for a couple of hours.  It's about 20 and overcast. My toes are cold and my face is frozen.  But I'm sweating most everywhere else.

[Dave Shepard]

You gots to keep them toes warm Bibby! I find if I can keep my feet warm, that's the most important thing. I wear Rocky Snowstalker Extremes. Warm enough for any weather, but wont melt your feet when you come in for lunch. In our sawshed, we can close up the doors pretty well, and that knocks the wind down, makes a big difference. I don't like it when the slabs have to be chiseled off the log, that's about when sawing quality is going to take a nose dive.


Dave

[SwampDonkey]

It was -5 F this morning and by 11 am it got up to 25 F where it stayed all day. Warmed up fast. It was real sunny until noon. A storm is to our south, we have a few light flurries, not enough to shovel. Sun tommorrow they say into Tuesday and mild or about 32 F. Bring it on. ;D

I don't like it hot in the house, I haven't stoked the furnace since 3:00 pm and won't until 12:00 am. Even up stairs it feels like 75F in this room now. Walking this morning I almost got too hot, had to take my winter gloves off, can't stand sweatty hands.

[semologger]

Dont worry bibby we dont have very much longer. I am tired of cabin fever also.

The only problem is spring is around the corner and here comes the rain. :(
I dont think i am ever going to get back in the woods. as soon as i think i can here comes more rain or sleet and ice. I hate to ever ride my 4 wheeler in the back field its so wet. I walk thru the yard and sink in about an inch.

Have you got plenty of logs on your yard all the mills around here are out or just about.

[stonebroke]

Bibbyman Have you ever tried pac boots? Northern innovation but they are real comfortable and very warm.

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

Got up to 32F today. Sun feels real warm from now on out.  It's so bright I can hardly see when I'm outside. ;D