Deck screws instead of nails?

[hackberry jake]

I built my 32x18 sawshed using mainly 2 1/2 or 3" deck screws. I have had a couple decks collapse because the nails pulled out so I haven't liked them ever since. My neighbor came down and saw the saw shed and he said that screws might shear off over time. Now I am wondering If I should go back through and put some nails in all of the connections as well as leave the screws in. Have any of you guys seen screws fail like this? I have a minimum of 4 screws per connection. Rafter to header is the main connections I'm worried about. Or joist to header I guess would be the term to use. Just 2x6 mixed hardwood on 2' centers. Max span in 10'. They are screwed into 2x10 headers of sycamore. I didn't use joist hangers, instead used a 2x4 ledger below all the joists.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

When I use nails, I make sure they are ring shank.
When I use screws for outdoor building, I use ceramic coated screws with the star heads on them.

[DouginUtah]

When I use screws for outdoor building, I use ceramic coated screws with the star heads on them.

That's what Dean Johnson is using on the timber-frame he is building on Hometime (PBS). (First episode was yesterday.)

[gspren]

  Drywall screws will break quicker than deck screws. What size/gage screws did you use?

[Slabs]

Try to not put a load on the screws or nails by designing your framing so that loads are compression on standing timbers (studs etc) or headers.  Fastenes should not be subjected to  shear loads .

[ely]

i ve had not dry lumber break dry wall screws when it dried out, i have since used nails if i am building with green wood then come back and hit  the project with a few deck screws after it has cured some.
on my house i have primarily used the screws that were mentioned above, so far so good.

[clww]

Every structure I build in the mountains is with decking screws. Chicken coops, fences, wood sheds, tree stands, etc. I haven't used nails, except to hang a picture, in more than 25 years.

[florida]

Deck screws are not designed to resist shear which is the force you apply to them in many framing applications. Plain nails don't have a lot of resistant to withdrawal but a lot of shear strength. I use a lot of deck screws in non-shear applications but nails or bolts otherwise.

If you've already had a couple decks fail you're doing something wrong. I'd go back and shoot some ring shank 16's in all the shear joints at least.

[hackberry jake]

I get 25lb buckets of screws from lowes (I believe hey are the coated ones). I would say 3/16 or 1/8 thick. I'd have to look. I think deck screws are pretty standard aren't they? An you guys are making me feel better about the screws. They are lifetime guaranteed against corrosion. The deck that failed twice, only one time was my fault. I didn't build it. It pulled out and collapsed once, then I went back and put it back together with a couple screws. I put two in each joist and I put them in the end grain. They actually pulled out as well. The last time I bought joist hangers and used deck screws. I actually believe that the boards would break before the joints failed now. Maybe not.

[grweldon]

I built my stick framed 24 x 24 house entirely with 2 1/2 and 3" coated star-head deck screw.  I was using all KD lumber.  None of the joints were connected relying on the shear capacity of the screws and I've had no problems.  Also, I've had to pull a few of the joints apart because I couldn't access the screw heads.  The screws WILL bend about 45 degrees before they break and the weakest part of the screw seems to be right at the joint of the head and the shaft.  Had a few heads twist off, but I've used at least 40 pounds of them and only a handful sheared.

When I build my barn from green pine, I will be using nails, but mostly for expedience as I'll be using a nail gun.

[nas]

I would agree with florida.  Check your local building code.  I believe that screws do not comply for many framing applications in Ontario.

Nick

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

I would agree with florida.  Check your local building code.  I believe that screws do not comply for many framing applications in Ontario.

Nick

Don't tell Mike Holmes that. All I ever see them use is screws on his show which I believe is filmed in Ontario.

Herb

[clww]

I agree, Holmes is always saying (and doing), "Glue it and screw it".

[tyb525]

Drywall screws are one thing, they break because they are actually very brittle. Deck screws and other screws are not, they bend more before breaking, and they also have thicker shanks compared to drywall screws.

Personally I have built many things with screws, and seen many thing put together with screws (even house framing, headers, etc) and haven't seen any broken screws. I like the way they draw things together much better than nails.

However, I have seen many cases of nails working loose (except ring shank, but they are basically screws anyways ) The main concern with shear strength is joist hangers and hurricane straps. Special thick truss nails are used for those, or screws designed to bear loads also work. Most other framing does not rely on the shear strength of the fastener. Headers for example, have cripples under the ends to support the load, rather than the fasteners supporting the load.

All in all, I have seen drywall screws used in indoor framing many, many times, and deck screws for use in treated lumber framing. I think the bigger issue outdoors is rust resistance, because I have noticed that is what causes breakage more than anything.

[nas]

If I said what I think of Mike Holmes I'd get sent to the wood shed pronto   One thing I will say is that he is a better actor than a contractor, never letting the facts get in the way of a good story or a plug for his sponsors. : : :
Screws have a tendency to snap without warning when shear weight is put on them.  Nails on the other hand, will give you some "warning" before they pull out.  As an example, screw a piece of 2x4 to a couple of studs on a wall and stand on it.  Do the same with nails, but make sure the nails are angled slightly down.  Unless you are using a screw thicker than #10, the screws will snap.  The nails won't, especially if they are in at a downward angle.

Nick

[Al_Smith]

Get the kind with torx head self starters made by Rustolium .I think the big ones take T-25 drivers .You might also want to get a pack or two of extra drivers because they do wear out .Get the long ones because the short ones aren't worth a hoot .They won't pull out and you won't break them .The things are about as permanent as a rivet .

[hackberry jake]

That's what I got was the t-25 star head screws. Installs most of em with a dewalt impact driver and a few with my dewalt drill. The impact drive is the bees knees as far as that goes. It's unloaded speed is faster so it starts screw faster and bits don't wear out as fast. I only snapped a few of them when I was installing joist hangers on a hickory 6x10. A lot of the connections were oak into sycamore or sycamore into cedar. I love this place. Guess I'll just keep using screws  8)

[clww]

Happy Birthday, hackberry jake!

[jdtuttle]

Here's a link to screws and their proper application. As a building inspector I have seen a lot of improper use of screws. The one that really bothers me is using drywall screws to fasten joist hangers. Some deck screws do have enough shear strength to use the way you did. Check the link to see if their OK.
jim 
http://www.nachi.org/home-inspectors-evaluating-problems-with-fasteners.htm

[Al_Smith]

Well you have to use some thought in the type of screw for certain .Dry wall screws are made to hang drywall not screw together structures .

Take like sub flooring,3/4" plywood .Over the years they just nailed it with 8 penny nails ,pretty soon it squeeked .Then they used ring shanks and liquid nails ,just took longer to squeek .Screw that pup down with 2" deck screws about every 4 inchs and it's not likely to ever talk to you as you try to tip toe through a room quiet as a mouse as opposed to sounding like a elephant walking on broken glass .

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Well you have to use some thought in the type of screw for certain .Dry wall screws are made to hang drywall not screw together structures .

Take like sub flooring,3/4" plywood .Over the years they just nailed it with 8 penny nails ,pretty soon it squeeked .Then they used ring shanks and liquid nails ,just took longer to squeek .Screw that pup down with 2" deck screws about every 4 inchs and it's not likely to ever talk to you as you try to tip toe through a room quiet as a mouse as opposed to sounding like a elephant walking on broken glass .

Course if you come home early enough you don't have to tip-toe... 

Herb

[Al_Smith]

 :D Well that too but at my age that doesn't happen .Besides that my wife could sleep through a marching band complete with majorets ,six base drums and 25 tuba players going oom pa paa .

On the other hand a squeeky floor about drives me bonkers .Some say it gives the house character but I say it makes it sound like it's falling apart .

[sprucebunny]

The stainless steel ring shank nails that I used on my board siding are sticking out 1/8 to 1/4 inch  : They weren't cheap. I've put a deck screw next to everyone I can reach.

I only use coated deck screws. I would recommend hurricane clips for rafters and I often use whatever sort of metal Simpson plate will fit to beef up important joints.

[redbeard]

A little trick I learned on deck screws the ones that are phillips head you can also use a square drive bit they actually work better especially removing one that may have hit a knot and got chattered up from the phillips bit.

[Larry]

I built a FEMA tornado shelter supposedly good nuff to survive an F5 twister.  The sheathing was two layers of 3/4" plywood and a layer of steel.  FEMA specified deck screws be used to attach the sheathing to the framing.  They suggest the use of USA manufactured screws as some foreign screws failed when tested.

[drobertson]

Not sure on shear strength, but I use the green torx head deck screws for most of my constuction.  The phillips strip out to easy and the galvanized coating is second to the green coating.

[sparky1]

I always use nails when framing, but then screws to hold on what ever im doing typically drywall or siding. I mainly use nails when framing because i have a framing nailer.. 

[tyb525]

Framing nailers are nice to frame fast with, but I don't own one and they are fairly $$$, for a big project I would probably get one. For smaller framing projects I use screws and an impact driver, I find it's easier to control exactly where they go, and their end-grain holding is better than nails.

I like putting headers together first with a few screws, two on each end and one or two in the middle, they draw warped boards together really well. Since my boss normally only has brittle 3" drywall screws and not deck screws, I pepper some framing nails in for added shear strength.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I still feel sorry for y'all south of the 49th. Phillips head screws are so useless. Roberts first choice and torx second for me.

On decking fasting I have gone to the steel strips that you nail/screw to the joist and then attach the decking material with 1 inch # 8 stainless screws from underneath. (robertson of course). It is amazing how much better the decking lasts when fastend this way. No holes for moisture to penetrate and the sliver factor is drastically reduced