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Author Topic: Tie Beam/Girt  (Read 467 times)

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Offline traded

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Tie Beam/Girt
« on: September 28, 2021, 08:46:28 AM »
Good morning, I'm currently drawing up a post and beam barn and I'm questioning why some drawings are showing one continuous tie beam/girt and some show the tie beam/girt mortised and tenoned into each post.  I'm looking to build a 30x40 barn with 4 bents.  I'm contemplating the use of a continuous tie beam or to run my posts to the top purlin plate and connecting each girt to the posts.  I will have posts at 10' intervals.  I'd appreciate any incite into this. I will be using solely hemlock.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2021, 10:58:52 PM »
I suggest clarifying some things in your post.  When you say "post and beam", are you talking about using timbers and connecting them with steel plates and bolts?  That is what is considered "post and beam".  Timber framing uses traditional joinery- mortise and tenon and wood pegs.  Just to put it to bed, Post and Beam is not easier or cheaper or faster than timber framing when considering all that goes into it - plate fabrication, careful alignment for bolts and precise cutting and fitting post and beam.  That is a common misconception.

When you asked about a continuous tie beam, I'm wondering if you meant tie beam or top plate?  If you have figured out how to post pics here already, you might want to post some sketches with labels to be sure we understand what you are describing.

I can't understand the sentence "I'm contemplating the use of a continuous tie beam OR to run my posts to the tip purlin plate..."  I don't understand this comparison, probably because we may not be using the same terminology/labels.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline traded

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2021, 04:46:18 AM »
Sorry for the confusion, hopefully this clears up my terminology debacle. I am looking to build a timber frame and not a post and beam. The posts are 10 apart, sorry for the rude sketch, heading to work. The drawing on the left is of the continuous posts similar to a pole barn construction with tie beams of 10.  The right is of a continuous tie beam approximately 30 long. I hope this helps in clarifying, Ive always been told my communication skills are lacking. Thank you everyone. 



Offline Don P

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2021, 07:08:30 AM »
This resembles a dutch barn. The rafters are basically balanced over the tall inside posts so there is no or little thrust from them. That being I would tend to tall posts and short ties to avoid beam shrinkage issues with interrupted posts. You'll also see the tie's at different elevations in old work to allow the center, anchor beam, to pass through the post with a tall shoulder inboard and a wedge on the outboard side. Now let's see how other people look at it.
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2021, 08:24:30 AM »
When someone asks me this question, my usual reply is: "What's the longest timber you can produce, or buy?" If you can buy 30' timbers how are you going to move them around? do you have heavy equipment to transport such a timber?
You can always buy 30' timbers from the west coast but the cost could be large. If you're on the west coast then maybe the shipping costs won't be that much.
Shorter is usually easier.
Jim Rogers
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Offline traded

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2021, 12:42:46 PM »
My thoughts as well regarding shorter is easier, I do have the ability to move bents with a telehandler, and I can borrow a mill that will cut up 45. My own is limited to 24 which is why Ive been contemplating the drawing on the left with the largest post being 22 roughly. Top plates would have scarf joints; entire foot print is 30x40. 

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2021, 11:56:35 PM »
Are you planning a second floor?  In the interior, do you need to clear span 30 feet?  If yes to either of these, I strongly suggest you have it engineered.  Is your picture just the gable end walls?  One section of my shop is 36 wide and 6 bents.  Three of the four interior bents clear span 36 feet.

I have a partial second floor and the bent in the middle of the floor is a special design so that it is clear span on the ground floor but supports the second floor.

This is the gable end of my shop.  White oak, continuous tie beam.  Ordered them from a mill in Kentucky.  One other note, do not use continuous common rafters because very long lengths will be a problem with warpage.  Break them up into two sections divided at the mid/summer plate(arrows).  And one other note, don't have the rafter tails extend beyond the wall.  As they shrink, they will make openings for bugs to come in in the fall and maybe even a bat.  Ask me how I know....   Instead stop them at the wall so you can close up your entire envelope, and if you want rafter tails, install them on the outside separately.


Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline traded

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 06:36:21 AM »
Thank you for the incite Brad, the bent drawn will actually be all four bents.  The barn will be for draft horses and minimal hay storage so the second floor will be completely supported.  First and Third bay will be 12' which will give me a 16' middle or second bay.  3 horse stalls on the northeast end with a tack/equipment room on the northwest corner and the remaining area will be open.  I'll include an interior drawing soon.

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2021, 10:04:51 PM »
Post a floor plan if you wish.  The pic above is part of my shop, but our horse barn is a bit different.  It has a center aisle.  With stalls and human rooms on either side.  That barn is about 38 wide.  No continuous ties. The center aisle was assembled first and on each side it was like two lean to's.  Then rafter.  There are a lot of things to consider for a horse barn.  Are you using automatic waterers?  We used stable comfort stall mattresses.  Wonderful.  What are you doing for stall walls/partitions?  Are you keeping them stalled in barn or will they be outside in a pen most of the time?

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline traded

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2021, 08:28:11 AM »
When I get back to the house after this weekend Ill include pictures. The basic layout will be a 30x40 story and a half barn 9 first floor and 4 second floor.  Bays 1 and 3 will be 12 wide and bay 2 16. Bays 1 and 3 will have a second floor while bay 2 will be open to the roof.  Bays 1 will have 10x12 tack/equipment room and the remainder will remain open. Bay3 will have 3 10x12 stalls, we havent decided fully on design of stalls they will be used mainly for holding for farrier or a sick animal. 

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Tie Beam/Girt
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 08:50:56 AM »
For your information.
Bays are the areas between bents, going long wall to long wall.
Aisles are the area between bent post going gable end to gable end.

Jim Rogers
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