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Bridge-Ramp-Help

Started by etat, December 22, 2003, 07:46:23 PM

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etat


Trying again.  Been trying almost two weeks to shrink this Dang Picture.  This is what I need to connect two rooms in my house.  There will be a curved stairway beneath.  This needs to be 9 feet long, crosing a 5 foot open area over the stairs, and needs 10 inches rise for headroom underneath, and appx. 4 feet wide.  I havn't yet figured out a way to get curved beams, other than laminating boards together.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Jim_Rogers

The problem I've having while thinking about your project is the width being 4'. If this is what you want you'll have to have very thick deck boards in order to span the 4' from arch log to arch log. That's why in another thread I suggested three arch logs one for each edge and one for the middle. This is to support your deck boards, personal weights of people walking over the bridge, and moving any furniture or other objects over the bridge, from side to side.
The other solution might be to place the arches under the deck and deck and divide the 4' into three sections and have the arch log supports under the 1/3 and 2/3 locations.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Here is what I've drawn, if you wanted to do a straight bridge:



The support blocks are 5' apart, and they are 8"x 10"x 4' to give you the 10" clearance you needed. The stringers are 8x8x9' and have a rabbet cut down the side 3 1/2" deep and 2" wide. The deck boards in the rabbets are 1 1/2" thick and 8" wide and about 3' long. The step is set to 8" from the floor to the top of the step and then 8" to the top of the deck. The end support blocks are 4x10's.
I haven't done any engineering math on this to see if it's safe, as I mentioned the deck boards might need to be thicker.
Railing could be added as needed.
If you wanted this in a curved log you could do something similar.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Here is another shot with a few deck boards removed and another support timber added. This timber is a 4 1/2" thick x 8" wide running down the middle of the deck.




These are just some quick ideas I had.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

etat

Jim, maybe you don't realize what a stubborn old fart I am.  Narrowing to 3 feet would be a possibility.  Incorporating a couple of steel runners underneath the top boards and enclosing so they won't be seen is well within my means.  I've got a pretty good welding shop set up over here.  Steel braces, clips etc. will be no problem. I could easily take steel beams, and slice and and form and put back together in an arch.  So if I had curved wooden beams and the notches cut out for the steps.  Underneath these notches attach curved angle iron,the length of the beams..  Across these from one side to the other weld angle heavy enough to support the floor.  Put a false floor underneath the iron reinforcement to hide the steel.  Your drawing does give me ideas, about these reinforcements and where they need to go.  Just need it curved.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

SasquatchMan

ck I think laminating is the best - the only other option would be to get some 6 by 6 or whatever, and then cut and glue a rough "arch" shape, then cut the actual arch shape out of that.  This wouldn't be as strong as a lam beam though.   It doesn't look like you'd even need to steam things to get the bend you're looking at... just a mold, lots of thin pieces and lots of glue
Senior Member?  That's funny.

Furby

Where's that articulated milling machine at  ??? ??? ???
I know we have a link on The Forum.......somewhere.


Well, I really don't remember what it was called and I don't remember if it'll do what you want.  ::) Been looking around and can't find it, a lotta help I am!  :-[

Tom

Ye seek and ye shall find! :D  Ye ask and ye shall receive! :D

I found it!  I found it! :)

The articulated bandsaw link


 ;D

Jim_Rogers

I've seen one of those band saw before, they're great if you got an extra $5000 or so to put into a saw. ;D

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Furby

That's it! That's it!
Thanks Tom!  ;)
I've been really sick the past couple of days and my brain ain't working right. I did however remember that it was a bandsaw, after I got home last night.  ::)

ck,
If it were me I'd get ahold  of some really wide beams from someone (I'm sure you can find some somewhere  ;D ), take a chainsaw and rough out what you want then do the rest by hand for that old time hand hewed look. I would make sure to reinforce it with steel though, what you have in mind will take most of the structural integrity out of the beams. Just my 2 cents.

beenthere

If you need to cut the curve in a glued-up beam, do as the laminated beam manufacturers do, and put a bandsaw on wheels, support the beam on its side, and move the bandsaw through the arc you want cut. It simulates what the articulated armed band saw does, and a bit less expensive.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jim_Rogers

I've seen that done before on a TV show, seemed to work good for them. You'll need a nice flat floor and good casters for your bandsaw, but it should work.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Don P

At that point it sounds like you're basically just facing a steel structure with a veneer of wood. Why not use thinner wide stock, 2x, it'll behave and dry better and bandsaw or jigsaw to shape. Looking at your drawing, could the walkway be a set of landings/steps (no arch) with arched side plates to which wood is attached (flitch plate).  Pickets could be bar or tube with a flat on top, arched. Wood handrail could screw to that from the flat stock?

etat

Don, I don't exactly understand what you said, but for some reason it was sounding real good.  An actual viable, doable plan that may be within my means and meet my requirements.  I hate to ask you to explain it again, but would you please.  I've got appx. 6 weeks work to do on this house before I have to start actual construction on this, to get it finished before I move in.  (IF I can stay on schedule)
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Don P

I sketched it out on graph paper real quick, 4 squares per foot. I tried to make the depth of the "stringers" 14". I got 10" rise about 6" in from each wall. You can fiddle around with all that. The blue is steel plate, I came up with 3 pieces about 10" width. Was thinking 1/2" welded up would do it (you're past my engineering abilities :D). The brown is the 2X stock on the outside, route the recess to bury the plate...you can just plate the inside with 2x then cut the arcs. I used radii of 51" and 65". The treads could be on angle iron thats recessed in a groove in the ends of the tread planking. Or are you planning on planking the underside of the bridge? Then you could just drop the angles under the treads and screw to them from the underside.


raycon


http://www.newmansknees.com/


Shows a fixture for milling braces on a woodmizer. Looks homemade out of wood. More for FYI then helping with this problem.
I'd start with a naturally curved log --using an alsakan mill cut curved timbers...might be less work than laminating. Woodenboat magazines archive has lots of info on bending 6x6's into half U's for boat hull ribs --problem is finding the archived articles.
Lot of stuff..

Fla._Deadheader

Heyyy. THAT is one neat link!!!!!!

  We have a potential customer that rebuilds AND builds from scratch, the old style Chris Craft Runabout, made in the late 30's and 40's.

  He uses CYPRESS, what else. And we are in the cypress business. Why wouldn't he be interested in the same thing as these guys are doing???  Cypress crown roots grow just like that AND we ain't gotta DIG ours ::) ;D ;D

  Gotta go see him when we go back to the camp.

  BTW, we sawed an "S" shaped Pecky log (Showed a pic on another thread), by doing the same as these guys.  Once ya get a flat side, the rest is pretty simple. That's the way I suggested to saw the "curved " logs. Flatten one side so it Doesn't roll and swap ends and turn it over. Take all yer cuts and throw away the last board.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

etat

Thank you Don.  I've got a digital camera on my 'wish' list'. I've got a super el cheapo one but the pictures leave a very lot to be desired.  I'll try to take pictures when I actually start trying to build the thing.  I liked your idea and approach to my problem.  Again, thanks.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

L. Wakefield

   Gee, Ray- up in Aroostook- that's just a short trip!   :D :D

   What an excellent idea.. my tamaracks are a mite smaller than that, tho.. I will have to look at the structure of larger ones. From the photo it looks like each trunk has 3-4 large roots?  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

DanG

CK, I was plundering around in Lowe's this evening, and spied one of those hand-held, metal cutting bandsaws. Looks like it would be great for cutting curves on large timbers, if you fitted it with a wood cutting blade. Looked like it would hog off about 4" at a whack. Might try it myself if I ever get my hands on one of them. There's a shop here that will make up any size band blades, so that wouldn't be a problem. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

etat

Thanks Dan, that's a very interesting idea.  I've had pretty good luck welding blades for my jet bandsaw, I've tried brazing, but usually cut em on an angle and a bevel and join em in a jig, with a mig.  Then grind, heat, and anneal. I'm still thinking hard about this bridge ramp thing, and still haven't decided exactly how I'm a gonna handle it.  The upstairs is finished all but painting and the bridge.  Built a surround for a bathtub and just come in a little while ago from laying tile.  That's too a first for me but it's looking pretty good so far.  Getting a heck of a coat of flash rust on my tablesaw, cause instead of springing for a tile cutter I put a 7 1/2 inch blade in it and am spraying the tile with water as I cut it. Didn't clean it up before  I come in so I'll have to do it tomorrow before I start.  Sure could use a few squirts of that rust stuff for sale around here.  Wish they had it in the stores.  Thinking about ordering me some.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

L. Wakefield

   So DanG- is that hand held but a powered unit? Gotta be :D :D :D  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

DanG

"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader

I've used a Milwaukee "Port-a-band" several times. Being as how they are a metal cutting saw (230FPM), I doubt of it would work on wood that was very thick. They are not made for power, and a wood blade requires speed???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

DanG

Back in my young youth, there was a TV show called "The Life of Riley," starring William Bendix. One of his trademark lines was, "What a revoltin' development that is!"  Somehow, I've always been able to identify with him. :-/
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

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