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Author Topic: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed  (Read 5191 times)

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Offline Michael NY TF

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10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« on: April 02, 2014, 11:53:32 AM »
I've been reading and re-reading the Sobon shed book, as well as many posts on this topic in this forum.

I want to hit a max building size limit of 144 sq ft so that I can build my shed without a permit. A 10 x 14 footprint seems nice, and I like the idea of following the general Sobon design, just downsized, so that I can use the book as a guide in my efforts.

The major question I'm dealing with right now, with the smaller size shed, is post and beam sizing. One idea I have is to make the posts 6x6 and the main crossbeams and girts 6x8, and stay with the three bent design. The other idea I've had is to just use two bents, and stay with 8x8 all around to span the full 10' and 14' distances. Sobon seems to say these size would work without support in the section of the book that talks about changing the shed size.

Any thoughts on either of these approaches? Thank you.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 12:37:23 PM »
I recently drew a 10x14 shed for a client that wanted to create his shed with cordwood wall infill.
I just made it smaller and used the same size timbers due to his snow load.

Jack does make a 12x14 shed out of 6x6 posts and 6x8 tie beams but it is a Dutch house design. Which means there is a bent every 4'
The tie beam is the floor joist for the second floor 2" decking.
This design could be reduced to 10x14' as well.
The only thing you'll need to do is verify that the rafters are big enough, and spaced right for your snow load.
Do you know the snow load for your area?

Jim Rogers
PS. I most likely can find a picture of this 12x14' frame design, if you wish to see it.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Michael NY TF

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 01:32:31 PM »
Thanks Jim. I'd love to see that photo if it's not too much trouble.

I believe the ground snow load in my area (dutchess county, ny) is 55 PSF.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 01:39:19 PM »
Here it is:

 

 

Of course this is a picture of a drawing of the shed. I don't think I've got an actual picture of a completed shed.
This shed is 12'x14' and has five bents. Each post is 6x6 and the tie beams are 6x8. I believe the plates are 6x6 as well. I'll have to check the rafter size but they could be 5x5.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 01:41:57 PM »
The rafters are 4x5 and they are spaced 3' 4" or 40" apart.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Michael NY TF

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 02:38:27 PM »
This is so interesting to me - in a smaller sized building than the 12 x 16 sobon shed, there are bents every 4 feet instead of every 8. And the beams are still 8". And I believe both buildings (sobon shed and this dutch building) were built for the hancock shaker village, so you'd assume a similar snow load. I'd love to understand what makes the different bent spacing and design decisions.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 05:46:49 PM »
No, Michael. The timbers in the 12x14 and the 14x16 built at Hancock shaker village are all 6x6 posts and 6x8 tie beam. The larger one has 5x5 rafters. The smaller one has 4x5 rafters with different spacing.

The Dutch people liked to have lots of bents and Jack likes Dutch barns as well as English barns.
The timbers in these Dutch frames are smaller 6x6 so the mortise and tenons are 1 1/2" wide and the pegs are 3/4" or 13/16".

This is an easier frame for a beginner to cut as there is less wood to remove. Lighter timbers to carry, and the spacing is different then the frame from his first book.

His first book frame was made heavy, so that if it is expanded it still is strong.

I've cut each of these frames. And we changed a few things in his book frame per some suggestions by Dave Carlon his partner in teaching the class at Hancock.

The book says to do 1" deep housings. We only did 1/2" deep ones. For the roof decking we used 2" tongue and groove so we eliminated every other rafter. So the rafter spacing was every 4' as the decking could span the distance.
If you're going to deck the roof with 1" boards, rough sawn and not tongue and grooved then you need to have more rafters to support the load.
Also more floor joists if you're going to deck the first floor with boards instead of planks.

I hope this has helped you to understand more about these designs. If not keep asking questions.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 08:45:01 PM »
Here's some photos of the Dutch-style.  This one was 12 x 14.

 

 

 

e aho laula

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 08:03:26 AM »
Brian; Thanks for posting those pictures.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Michael NY TF

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 12:09:44 PM »
Thanks to both of you - I'm finding this conversation highly informative and learning a lot.

What I was trying to express was that the 12 x 16 shed from the book has 8 foot bent spacing and 8x8 posts and beams. It was interesting to me that 4 foot bent spacing was designed into these other sheds using 6x6 posts and 6x8 beams, and I was considering the design decisions that would make that so.

Going back to my original thoughts - I think potentially a 6x6 post and 6x8 beam 3 bent design for a 10 x 14 shed could work, but I got worried when I saw that, in the dutch design pattern, there might be more bents than that at the same timber sizing.

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: 10 x 14 Sobon Shed
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 12:58:34 PM »
Loading is only part of the equation when selecting beam size. Having enough timber left after cutting all of your mortises is another. I would have to do the calculations to see if a 6x6 plate would work at that span. There are trade offs between Dutch and English frames styles. Dutch uses more wood, with less joinery. English uses less wood, but has more joints. For instance, the four foot tie beam spacing means you can plank the second floor without joists. In an English barn, you would have to cut joists and joist pockets to put a loft floor in.

Brian, who's the sasquatch in the blue shirt standing in the door. Looks familiar. :D
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