When you're sawing, how small is too small to bother?

[MacPhly]

In the course of a couple weeks, I went from considering an LT15 with no wheels to what I've now ordered... LT35HD. Will be here in 14ish weeks. So I'm a complete newbie. While I wait, I'm clearing an area of my property to set up on. Concentrating on taking the pines for now. I've been cutting the logs into 12-16 foot lengths. The 'big' ones are 16-20" or so at the base. I've been chipping the tops. 

My question is at what point on a narrowing tree (log) do you stop? I'm sure this is a somewhat subjective question as a lot of you guys are sawing for money. And time = $$. But whats your general rule of thumb? Whats too small to put on the mill? 

Thanks
Mac

[Haleiwa]

Depends some on what you need, how tired you are at the end of the day, and what the weather for the next week is supposed to be.  I often break small logs into three by fours; that seems to be a handy size to have around for cribbing, runners under a stack of lumber, and just generally useful for posts or the oddball framing situation.  Stickers are another thing I always seem to need more of; I hate to make stickers out of a nice log.  Realistically, if you need eight inch boards and you're down to nine inches at the small end, you're wasting your time to try to get something out of a log that isn't there.  You'll get a sense of it after you saw a few hours as to what is worth the effort and what isn't.  I'm not kidding about the weather; if you have more logs than you can get to before a storm (assuming you are sawing outside) it just makes sense to work on the good logs first and that way if you run out of time the stuff that's left for another time isn't a big deal.  Sometimes it starts to look really good for firewood if it sits for another week or two.

[btulloh]

You're right about it being subjective. Best thing is to experiment when you're starting out. Then you'll know what your minimum is going to be. A lot depends on what you need and how fast. Small logs do eat up more time for little yield. One thing I usually do is saw tops into 6x6 and 4x4. That way you get something useful and you're not wasting a lot of time trying to get 4/4 lumber out of the small stuff. I never have enough 4x4 and 6x6 for dunnage and other uses, so it's a good way to build up that inventory. 

A 6" log will yield a 4x4 if it's a straight log. A 9" will yield a 6x6. Neither will yield much 2x or 4x lumber.

Enjoy your new mill and welome to theFF. 

[doc henderson]

so it depends on what you want to do with the wood.  for length, hardwood is usable at shorter lengths than softwood for framing.  the lengths on my mill, is it has to be over 3 feet to span one bunk.  a big 3 foot stump meaning 35 inches around, can be a mess as you move it or try to roll it, if it falls between the supports.  I need 6 feet to use the clamp, and turner.  I need 8 feet to use my clamp, roller and toe boards.  each bunk has a log stop.  I can do cookies or a shorter log using a jig to hold it.  for diameter, there is a 2/3rds rule,  it means if you want board, you can get a cant (sounds counterintuitive  ) that size.  so a 12 inch log (at the diameter small end) should get you a 8 inch cant.  when you mill through it, say at 1 inch, you can get about 8  1 inch boards 8 inches wide.  so a log that is 20 feet long and tapers 15 inches (DLE) to 6 inches (DSE), can get a total square cant of 4 x 4 inches.  so it would be better to cut wood in a thickness you can use and get to the 20 foot post.  of you may decide you have no need for long stuff, and cut it to 6.5 foot logs of hard wood, or 10 footer if longer is needed, or a 12 and a 8 if that works for you.  all this assumes the log is straight.  any major change in diameter (just above a group of branches in pine)  or a bend in the tree, may help you decide where to cut to get the most boards from a log.

[Fern Wood]

Yes depends on what you are after. I have been sawing some 10 foot larch 4x4's about 7- 8" on small end. Four passes = $10/each. Larch slabs make good firewood for outside furnace. Typically I don't buy logs smaller than 12".

[doc henderson]

if you develop a standard pallet, the you cut logs to make boards to fit your pallet.  mine are 6 foot 2 and 9 foot 2inch.

[alan gage]

With me "it depends" on what the log is, what I have a need for, how easy it saws, and my mood at the time.

If I'm feeling good and there's a nice log with an 8" top I might saw it up for battens or narrow boards. If it's been a long day or I'm cutting something like knotty spruce, which always seems to give me troubles, I might look at a log with a 10" top and say 'forget it.'

I don't get much softwood here and what I do is always knotty so I usually don't bother with anything under 12" unless I need battens.

Some days I'll throw something in the firewood pile and then pull it back out a couple days later when I'm in a better mood. But usually when I do that I wish I'd just left it in the firewood pile.

I currently have a small pile of small spruce I'm hoping I can just throw away, or maybe turn into 4x4's, but am keeping just in case I run short on battens for my house siding next summer.

Congratulations on the new mill! I'm sure you'll love it.

It might be worthwhile to cut some logs shorter than 12', especially the smaller tops, unless you actually need a lot of 12 and 16' lumber. Turning a 16' log into two 8' logs might get you a better yield since the bottom log would have a larger top and thus produce wider boards.

Alan

[moodnacreek]

The answer , if there is one, will be different every few miles. In oak I need 2 2x8 min. per log. Why?, because we live in oak and I can always sell all the 2x8 I can get. Anything smaller goes boomerang and I don't have a pallet market. A mill 50 miles north, west or south of me will have a completely different answer. There are mills in northern w. cedar that saw 6" poles. This is how it is and you may find it interesting.

[Don P]

I try to eat the whole pig if at all possible but there comes a point. I was doing that with some pines I harvested here and had to go back to paying work before I finished the last couple of pecker pole tops. They were probably 6 or 7" dia x 8' long. 

A friend asked if he could drop off some logs from some clearing he was doing. When he came out a few days later there were some nice logs and then about a dozen poplar logs that couldn't have been 8". I asked why he brought them and he said "I hadn't planned on it but then I saw the little stuff on your deck and figured there must be something good in them after all". Always clear the deck even if it is into the bonfire pile  :D

[Durf700]

In the course of a couple weeks, I went from considering an LT15 with no wheels to what I've now ordered... LT35HD. Will be here in 14ish weeks. So I'm a complete newbie. While I wait, I'm clearing an area of my property to set up on. Concentrating on taking the pines for now. I've been cutting the logs into 12-16 foot lengths. The 'big' ones are 16-20" or so at the base. I've been chipping the tops.

My question is at what point on a narrowing tree (log) do you stop? I'm sure this is a somewhat subjective question as a lot of you guys are sawing for money. And time = $$. But whats your general rule of thumb? Whats too small to put on the mill?

Thanks
Mac

I don't like to mill much below 10 or 12" diameter... you just don't get a return on your time like you do with a bigger log.  however i've had a heck of a time getting my hands on a load of logs since I used up my 25,000 board feet of hemlock I clear cut where my new home will be getting built.  when you run low on logs the smaller ones will work for some things but are frustrating if your looking to pump out some volume for your projects..  I might be cutting more of my own because prices seem to of gone up on my local Hemlock..  the truck load I just got didn't impress me for the money!!!  but at least I have a load of nice 18" to 24" logs sitting there for me now incase we end up closing down again due to COVID...  you will love your decision on the LT 35 HD.  I started with an LT 15 used mill.., built trailer for it before using it this past spring and then quickly upgraded due to loving this new hobby to an LT 35 HD.  its an awesome mill and you will absolutely love the hydraulics!!!!

[Banjo picker]

10 inches small end or you  pay by the hour.  Tim

[moodnacreek]

I try to eat the whole pig if at all possible but there comes a point. I was doing that with some pines I harvested here and had to go back to paying work before I finished the last couple of pecker pole tops. They were probably 6 or 7" dia x 8' long.

A friend asked if he could drop off some logs from some clearing he was doing. When he came out a few days later there were some nice logs and then about a dozen poplar logs that couldn't have been 8". I asked why he brought them and he said "I hadn't planned on it but then I saw the little stuff on your deck and figured there must be something good in them after all". Always clear the deck even if it is into the bonfire pile  :D

Unrelated to the question: Don't ever let people see you sawing stuff you don't like to saw!

[GullyBog]

 3-4" is literally Too Small.  The mill can clamp the stick but there is so much curve that I can't get a right angle. The cant ends up out of square.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I will saw it if I can clamp it. I tell my customers if under about 12" I charge by the hour. For myself. I can cut a a 6X6 crib block out of a 9-10 inch short log. Some high value wood like cherry and walnut I will cut short pieces 2-3 ft long.

[Banjo picker]

I try to eat the whole pig if at all possible but there comes a point. I was doing that with some pines I harvested here and had to go back to paying work before I finished the last couple of pecker pole tops. They were probably 6 or 7" dia x 8' long.

A friend asked if he could drop off some logs from some clearing he was doing. When he came out a few days later there were some nice logs and then about a dozen poplar logs that couldn't have been 8". I asked why he brought them and he said "I hadn't planned on it but then I saw the little stuff on your deck and figured there must be something good in them after all". Always clear the deck even if it is into the bonfire pile  :D

Unrelated to the question: Don't ever let people see you sawing stuff you don't like to saw!

I hit the like button.  But I really really like this.  And its a good rule to live by.  Tim.

[SawyerTed]

Generally if it won't make at least a 4x4 I don't saw it. I try to guide customers away from sawing less than 10" SED logs.  Like others, there's always a need for dunnage around a sawmill.  

If a customer is paying, I'll saw air if he wants. 😝  It's rare that I will refuse to saw a log a customer wants cut but sometimes I do if too small or crooked etc. 

[WDH]

Small logs are mostly juvenile wood and the lumber is usually poor.  Boards that are predominantly juvenile wood cut from the juvenile core are very prone to warp and twist, and I cannot use or sell twisted and warped boards. 

[Dave Shepard]

If it's hard to clamp, I try not to mess with it. Value of recovered lumber is a factor.

[Patrick NC]

When I'm sawing cedar I'll cut anything big enough to make a 4x4x 8. Takes only a couple minutes and pays about $20. 

This 66" long 6x8 came from an ugly short piece that was in the bonfire pile. Sold for $75

[YellowHammer]

"If I can unload it from your pickup truck or trailer by hand, then it's a stick, not a log, and I don't saw sticks, only logs."

And "If a 5 gallon bucket fits over the end, it's too small."  
5 gallon buckets are almost 12 inch diameter, everybody has one, and that keeps customers from getting confused between circumference and diameter.  

These are the corollaries to my "If it won't roll, it's not a log, it's still part of a tree, and I only saw logs."

[Chuck White]

I tell customers that I'll saw 8" or larger.

At the least, I know I can get a 4x4 (2 2x4's).

[MacPhly]

Great information! Thank you all for chiming in. 

Mac

[Peter Drouin]

 

 keeps customers from getting confused between circumference and diameter

:D

[terrifictimbersllc]

Here are some responses I've made. 

10"

12"

8" if its straight.

Little logs give little boards.

Put the smaller stuff in back of the pile and see how you feel when we get to it. 

Once you start using your larger boards, you'll have a lot of smaller pieces left over.

It's a matter of clamping it, not going to set any production records. 

I'll saw whatever you want me to. 

[YellowHammer]

"If I can unload it from your pickup truck or trailer by hand, then it's a stick, not a log, and I don't saw sticks, only logs."

There is the memorable genesis of this saying.  It still makes me smile when I remember it.

I had a guy several years ago call me up wanting me to saw up an Osage Orange log.  He was one of those "rabbit brain" guys on the phone, so I repeatedly asked him how big it was, and all I got back from him was "Oh, it's 3 feet across, no problem, maybe bigger."

Well, I'm always on the lookout for big Osage so I said if it was 3 feet across, I'd buy it from him if he'd bring it to me. That really got him fired up and some time later that day I see some ratty old pickup truck rolling in the driveway, with no trailer.  So I mention to my wife and another guy that the way he described the log, it would need a trailer, and this didn't look good.  Then, I figured it was so big and heavy, he must have had to buck the log short to get it in the truck and all I would have are a bunch of osage cutoffs, which were worthless.  I've had that happen before, so I started to get that sinking feeling.

After he rattled to stop in from of the barn, he said "Here it is! How much are you going to pay me?!" and we looked at each other, then looked at him, then looked over the side of the bed like one of those comedy movies.  And sure enough, in the bed of the truck there was a little 3 foot long osage branch, maybe a couple inches across, about the length of a crooked baseball bat.  I just laughed when I realized what had happened.  Then he said, "See, it's 3 feet across, how much is it worth?"  :D :D  So I said, "No, it's 3 feet long, its only 3 inches across."  However, the guy still didn't get it, so then my smart aleck kicked in.

So I went and got my Doyle Scale stick, which was longer than the osage limb, measured the diameter, then acted like I was doing some math in my head and told my wife that we owed this guy $1, like as if we were buying any other log.  Real business like.  The guy's face fell and he said something like it wouldn't even pay for the gas to get here and I made a comment that he should have brought a couple more. :D :D  By that time, nearby folks were trying not to just blow out laughing because I really don't think the guy ever figured it out.  Finally, I broke it to him that only sticks fit in the back of a pickup truck and I don't saw or buy sticks, only logs.

I later took the osage stick and leaned it against a tree, sticking out of a five gallon bucket for a couple years, and would use it as a teaching aid for future customers who wanted to bring logs.