My Pith is Off Center

[WDH]

I have had my eye on an old shortleaf pine that is really slick and flat topped.  It has pretty much done its deed.  As they get old, the pine beetles get them, so I wanted to harvest it before they did.  I went several times to look it over, and one time with the intent to fell it.  However, after looking it over, I was not comfortable with felling it.  It is about 24" in diameter, and it is leaning very drastically to one side.  The stress in that tree has to be incredible.  I looked at the tree and thought, "If I don't do this right, this tree will barber-chair and kill me".  So, I walked away.

At the Pig Roast, I asked @Chet about his thoughts on the best way to proceed.  He gave me two options, one was open a conventional face, bore the tree leaving a hinge, cut back out to the backside leaving holding wood, and then come to the backside and quickly cut the holding wood.  The second was to open the front face, bore in about a third of the way leaving an hinge with holding wood in the middle, Go to the other side and bore in a third of the way leaving holding wood in the center, and cut each of those thirds all the way out to the back.  This leaves a "T" with the hinge on one side and the holding wood extending from the hinge all the way to the back with this strip of holding wood perpendicular to the hinge.  Then come in from the backcut and cut the center holding wood as quickly as possible toward the hinge. 

I settled on the first method.  Opened the face, bored in from one side as far as the 20" bar would go leaving about a 1" hinge.  Then, went around to the other side and began to bore in to meet the first bore cut.  After I got in about 4", the tree pinched the bar, and I was done for.  Took the saw off the bar, leaving the bar in the tree, went back to the shop and go another bar and chain.  Then I took a skidding chain and wrapped it around the tree about 3' off the stump to hopefully keep any barber-chair from killing me, finished the bore cut, then came in from the back and cut the holding wood.  Success!

Here is pic of the tree as it stood in the woods showing the severe lean/bow of the trunk.



 

Got the logs skidded out.  Looking at the top of the first log, the pith is about as bad off-center as any that I have seen even though the log is relatively straight.



 

The plan was to cut 9/4 planks out of this tree for farm table tops.  I wanted to modify quartersaw it and get mostly rift and quartersawn planks to help with the stability of the boards.  After looking at the pith, I am thinking that I will cut this log as if it is two trees.  Looking at the pith, center the pith in your imagination so that there is a equal amount of wood in each side and call that the first "tree".  You can see from the pic that the juvenile core is a different color than the surrounding mature wood.  I would position the narrow side of the log up on the sawmill bed and make a cut just below the boundary of the juvenile wood.  Move that off to the loader arms.  Then turn the bottom part of the remaining "tree" 90 degrees and modified quartersaw it. 

What do the experts think?  Remember, I am not cutting framing lumber. 

[Dave Shepard]

I've seen white pine that bad before. I had one log that I got nine 7"x7" timbers out of it. I was going to resaw them to 6"x6". Way too much movement. I made 1" lumber out of them.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Well im watching with interest.

[Magicman]

I understand your plan and am interested in the results.  There is so much stress in that log that I am afraid that you will be dealing with serious crook.  I personally would prefer to deal with bow.

[chet]

An 1" of hinge on a tree that heavy is not enough, as you found out. The weight of the tree can squish the hinge and close your saw kerf.  I would have warned ya if I had seen how heavy it really was.  ;D  Tree is down, logs not destroyed, and nobody hurt, good job. 
If your Short Leaf is anything like our Red Pine you better chain dat baby ta da mill when you saw it. There's some serious stress wait'n ta be unleashed.  :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

When your dealt off centered piths, make rocking chairs.  ;D

[WDH]

This is going to be an adventure  .

[Ianab]

Just out of interest, it looks like the central core has concentric rings. Suggests the tree was growing straight up until that point, and then it got leaned over. That accounts for the straight log, but it's subsequent growth has been off centre, and likely has all sorts of stress going on.

Interested to see what happens when you open it up.  ???

[chet]

Interested to see what happens when you open it up.  ???

Boing   :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good 1 Chet.  :D :D :D

[pineywoods]

Should be interesting. I sawed whittled a similar loblolly a few weeks ago. Nice looking log, about 20 inch by 16 foot. The lean was about like yours, on a creek bank. A windstorm took care of the felling.  I have cut my share of pecan, hickory, sycamore, elm, persimon etc. but that was the most cantankerous piece of wood I have ever put a blade to. Let us know how it turns out.

[5quarter]

That is a good plan, except you left out the part where you take the first "log" off the loader arms and throw it in the burn pile.  ;)

[Kbeitz]

The creek bank trees gets a heavy duty ratchet strap put on the stump about 2 feet abouve my cut before sawing
This will keep the tree from spliting and kicking back. You got to really crank down on the strap hard.
You could also use a comealong.

[Magicman]

I encounter off-center SYP quite often.  The butt end of the butt log will give you  the most grief, so hopefully you "jump-butted" the butt log at least a foot up from the felling cut.

I prefer to flat saw those uglys to prevent sawing propellers.

[WDH]

It makes the most sense to flat saw it.  I am leaning (!) that way this morning.  I could cut down another big pine to quartersaw.  Still mulling it over.  The results (at least green from the log) will be known soon. 

Ian, I see what you see and believe that the a high wind in a storm leaned it over to that extent after it was about 20 to 25 years old, then the weight from the big top all to one side cause the bend.  The tree is 70 years old now. 

[elk42]

WDH
If it is off center like you say that is what I do flat saw wide boards.

[Ox]

Following this thread intently.  That's as bad off center as I've ever seen, but mine were cut into firewood.  Interesting to see how this one mills up.

[Magicman]

 

 


 
Off center SYP piths is not uncommon, but WDH's is an extreme case.  The butt logs generally give the most grief.

[deadfall]

I cut a lot of red alder.  Nothing like pine, as the wood is even-grained, soft, and brittle.  But most of them lean and are full of stress.  They are famous for barber-chairing.  I wrap them up just above my cut with a 20 foot chain when there is a lot of lean to keep them in one piece.  I make firewood out of most of the leaners, as the cants just curl up.  Luckily I have enough of them to pick the rare vertically standing ones for the mill.  The only thing I might do with some of the highly stressed base logs that are just too nice to go for firewood is cut the cants way oversize and trim away to eliminate the stress and just waste off the trimmings.  It's worth it for that clear wood. 

[WDH]

I chickened out and flat sawed it  .



 

Sawed it like you would with a log with sweep.  Basically squared it up, and cut down with the horns down.  I rotated it often 180° to try to relieve some of the stress.



 



 

All in all, I got 420 BF of 9/4 x 10' (2 3/8" thick) and mostly 11 to 13.5" wide. 



 

I tried to center the pith on both ends as best that I could.  Even so, a few of them like the ones on the top left are wanting to move some already, mostly bow a little. 



 

I will sticker and evaluate before kiln drying. 

[rasman57]

For those of us watching at home and soaking up all the experience we can get from paying attention, this is a great thread.  From log assessment to stacking..... thanks for posting this one.  Free wisdom!   Good use of a log that many would have put up in smoke.     

[Peter Drouin]

How long did the logs set before you cut them up?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Not bad Danny. I would have sawed it the same way. 

[Peter Drouin]

Not bad Danny. I would have sawed it the same way. 

I bet he did not cut the whole log before he off load a piece of wood. :D :D :D smiley_nananana

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Not bad Danny. I would have sawed it the same way. 

I bet he did not cut the whole log before he off load a piece of wood. :D :D :D smiley_nananana

You're killing me!  :D :D :D :D :D