Satilla Lodge

[Tom]

Here are pictures of the interior of the lodge on the Satilla river that Jeff took when he visited.

The Lodge is made from Southern Yellow Pine, Water oak, Cypress, Sweet Gum, Black Gum and Holly. All of it was cut on-site.  The furniture was made from the same woods.

The floor is made from 22" SYP, the widest my Wood-mizer would open up, and some was lost to straight edging after drying.  It's still a wide board.   :D

The Redness is the heartwood.  You don't find too  much SYP with that much heart anymore. These were lightening struck, blowdowns or bug killed trees. The Doctor who built the lodge refused to cut any live trees.

[Jeff]

That was an amazing floor. The pictures don't do it much justice.

[JoeyLowe]

Too beautiful Tom!  How thick did you cut that flooring?

[Tom]

I cut it 4/4 and they had one side skip planed and the other planed to 7/8 thickness.  the subfloor is 3/4 plywood and the pine was set in glue and surface nailed.  The straight edging was done with a skill saw and they did a very good job.  A long straightedge (angle iron) was used to run the saw against.

[Norm]

I really enjoy seeing wood from other areas of the country that we don't see up here, that is some beautiful flooring.

Nice job Tom, thanks for sharing it.

[CHARLIE]

Tom took me out to the place too. It's a beautiful, huge lodge with a porch that overlooks a deep tanic stained black meandering Georgia river. A fascinating place set way back in the woods away from the noises of civilization.

BUT......looking at that picture of Tom standing there I'm thinking....."DanG good thing those floor boards are 22" wide and there is a 1 5/8" of wood under him....."  ;D

[Bibbyman]

Charlie,  

I thought it but was not going to say anything - considering Tom a friend.  I guess you can get by with it being his brother. ;D

[Jeff]

You shoulda seen the other big guy scrambling up and down an old board walk way on the banks of that river just down from the lodge trying to catch a DanG lil' lizard for Stacy.

You look dignified standing there holding those boards down Tom compared to how I looked crawling up those boards on the River!

[trees]

I've heard of southern yellow line floors before and always wondered how they stand up to wear being a softer wood. I'm used to mostly hardwood floors where I am. Can you give me some info on this?

Thanks, Trees.

[Bro. Noble]

Southern yellow pine flooring is real common in older buildings in our area.  It is harder than most pines but still, high traffic areas do show a lot of wear, especially where it was used in bussinesses.  With better methods of keeping floors clean as well as much more durable finishes, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Noble

[CHARLIE]

They'll last a couple or three lifetimes...... :   I think it would be a long time before you could wear out a Southern Yellow Pine floor. You might be able to do it with heavy traffic in a 150 to 200 years....

[Tom]

First, hard wood and hardwood, soft wood and softwood are different. I know you know that but I'll reiterate for the heck of it.

Hardwoods have real leaves and are usually deciduous.
Softwoods have needles or scales (conifers) and are usually evergreens.

That means that "hard" and "soft" as a texture is not being compared very accurately.

Long Leaf Pine has been used for flooring in the south since we began putting floors in the buildings.  It has been used with great success and stood up under decades of wear from sandy traffic.  

The Wood Handbook list the side hardness of Long Leaf as 870 psi and N. Red Oak at 1000 psi.  Many of the other numbers are comparable.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
One time I found some "wear" values but, I'll be dogged if I can remember where it was.

Of course winter wood wears better than summer wood so the floor with the tighter grain will wear better between finishings.  

I grew up on a SYP floor and it showed no appreciable wear during my entire life n the house, about 22 years.  To my knowledge it was refinished only once in 50 years and that was for looks not wear.

Most pine floors that I am aware of are laid in thicker and wider boards than the hardwoods.  If the wear is comparable then the life of the Pine Floor will be greater for this reason.

One thing Hardwood floors have going for them is that the wood is "cleaner".  SYP will "bleed" for years sometimes because of Pitch Pockets that may be hidden inside of the board.  Even Kiln Dried Pine where they tried to "set the sap" is not immune.

Pine has a warm, soft, look when the red heartwood is used that makes a house feel mighty homey.  I like it.

[CHARLIE]

I like it too Tom. Here in Minnesota, DanG near everything, molding, cabinets and if the floor is wood...is red oak. Southern Yellow Pine has a softer warmer look to it but it's quite durable.

If anyone has a problem with a pine board bleeding sap, try sealing it with shellac first and then varnish or paint it. The shellac should stop the bleeding.  

[Eggsander]

Charlie, Why does shellac stop the pitch bleeding? What does it do that other finishes don't?
I am asking because in drying the pine for our addition I have yet to get the kiln hot enough (160°+) to set the pitch. I still intend to try to get the kiln hotter, cause this pitch makes the DanGdest mess of my planer and everything else. But if the shellac works then it would sure help with what I've already run through.  ;)

[CHARLIE]

Eggsander, I don't know the why part that shellac will keep pine from bleeding.  I learned the trick a few years ago from the Wood Magazine Forum. I've used it on a problem area and it worked fine. For your application, the only thing I can suggest is to give it a try. :P

[Brian_Bailey]

Eggsander,  Shellac just forms a layer over the pitch and seals it in the wood.  You can use any film type finish for this purpose but shellac is favored because it is compatible with so many different kinds of finish.

Also,  I don't think you need to get your kiln to 160 degrees to set the pitch,  that's the recommended temp. though.  I've been told that getting the temp.to 130 is good enough, as you would have to exceed that temp. for the pitch to start bleeding again.  Hope this is of some help .

[Eggsander]

Thanks Brian and Charlie,
I'm gonna try the shellac and see what happens. For what I've got so far, I'm not so sure about the 130° thing though. I've gotten to 130° (admittedly not for 24hrs though). After that the pitch in the pockets is thicker but will still move. Maybe it won't bleed through, but I want to try to head this off. The thought of sap running down the walls, and the look I'll get for that one makes me shudder.  

[Brian_Bailey]

Eggsander,  I don't do much pine but I did saw and dry several mbf of E.White Pine for a customer about 10 yrs. ago.  I only went to 130/ 140 degrees,  my standard routine for sterilization.  He used the wood for paneling and hasn't had any problems that I know of.  He did seal with shellac though.  

If your buying the canned already mixed shellac from a store make shure you check the date of mfg. on the can.  If it's over a year old don't buy it.  It won't cure properly.  Also, if you plan on top coating with polyurethane,  use only de-waxed shellac.

[woodsteach]

That is some awesome looking flooring.

I am going to try some bluestained pine for wainscotting it will most likely be airdried, so,   should I hit it first with some de-waxed shellac to help set the pitch and follow up with poly?

Paul

[scsmith42]

RE SYP durability, I have a slightly different experience than others on this string.

Two years ago I redid my house in antique heart pine from reclaimed timbers.  The timbers came out of an old textile mill and came from a section that was erected in the 1870's.  They are primarily flatsawn.  The entire house, save for the laundry room - is wood floor, with 80% being SYP.

Without question the floor looks spectacular.  However, the SYP in my house is nowhere near as hard a wood as the oak flooring that I have on the stairs and in the loft.

The SYP dents and scratches (the wood - not the finish) much easier than the oak.  As a matter of fact, I'm hard pressed to find any impressions in the oak.  The SYP is a differnt matter though.

Granted, my wife and I live on a farm, and have indoor/outdoor dogs.  We do remove our workboots if we've been working outside and walk around in slippers or socks. 

Also, the beams that our flooring came from served as the subflooring in the "machine room" of the mill, and became soaked over the years with cotton oil.  I don't know if the cotton oil softened up the SYP or not - sure made the colors vivid though.

Even with the scratches and dents the SYP still looks great, but not as hard as the oak.

Scott