Good afternoon FF,
Can anyone here speak to their experience with a Road Legal Log trailer such as a
Wallenstein (no loading arm) or similar?? Looking to get a trailer to be able to haul small loads.
I have looked at flatbeds, lowboys, military etc. Lots of older stuff out there that is rusty
or is '60 vintage worn out junk with iffy brakes if any. Called on a 12' military genset unit. Seller took all the brakes off but kept the parts, "it's an easy install" I asked him what the brake system was, "Air over Hydro" , I don't have a Mack DM to pull with I have a 1/2 ton Ram which means I have to do a Hydro surge system conversion or go full Electric.
I like the log specific trailers with a walking beam suspension systems and brakes on all 4 wheels. I see lots of Ag trailers with a walking beam system, but seems they don't have brakes or am I missing something??
Thanks
D
Are you looking at a flat deck or a dedicated log trailer with bunks? Weight is your enemy, be sure to stay within the limits posted on the door sticker if the truck has one. A flat deck will be more versatile but heavier.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but NYDOT is not gonna let you pull a 10k gvw trailer without a CDL-A. When you get caught its a very expensive tow, very expensive impound and a driving out of class felony charge.
I wonder if youll have a hard time finding a dedicated forestry trailer with an under 10k rating. youre just as bad off getting caught and portable scaled with more logs on than your truck or trailer or tires or axle(s) are tagged for. Theres just no easy way to move many logs legally without paying the CDL and big truck ransom. A car trailer, a deadheader and a few at a time is probably the safest way to cruise by a statie.
How will you load and unload this trailer at each end? How many board feet and what species were you wanting to haul?
Mike is spot on, the other thing that stands out is your tow rig is only a half ton - you will kill that in a hurry if you start to put any significant load behind it. Can you hire someone to do the hauling for you?
I would say the best thing to do is get a ford F700 or International 4300 that is under 26,000 lbs. No CDL needed. You can get a 24 foot box truck for 3-4K put a small set of booster on it. Most them trucks only wt 12K you and put 7 tons of logs on it. for the money its the way I would go.
Here's the problem in NY and each region and DOT cop is going to look at it differently, right now the ones getting nailed are the 1-ton guys with trailers moving a machine because DOT knows they dont know the rules. It's not 26,000 that gets you, it's the capability to gross over 18,000 where you fall into HUT, that's where they start the tickets. My GF works at DMV, the welfare office upstairs spends it as fast as they make it, someone's gotta pay 🤣 If your just staying local and moving a few I wouldn't get to scared, a decent 2 axle dump trailer or equipment trailer would work behind a 1/2 ton if you didnt go nuts, I dont see many of the "log specific" small trailers around, kind of a niche thing. Do you own a farm ? Theres loopholes on registration and how you go about it so it betters your chances of being left alone.
Matts idea isnt a terrible one but getting insurance may be a pain if you havent had a long term commercial policy with a carrier already. I was turned down by all but progressive commercial on my 2ton with a nearly perfect record.
I didnt know HVUT started at 18k, bout the only thing they didnt nail me with on my day in the barrel. i do know NY looks at 3 things. You door tag weight, your registration weight and your scale weight. If any totals over 26k you are CDL, medical card and log book. E-log if the rig is newer than 99. B-license for a straight truck, A license if there is a trailer involved that is over 10k tag. Doesnt matter if its empty and tares 5000# and you are parked at a rest stop.
Another thing thatll nab you in NY is "not for hire" on the rig. If you arent for hire they want a blank truck with a DOT number on the door.
No homemade trailers in NY either, the registration must have a vin. Doesnt matter where you are from, get caught passing thru means they sieze the trailer, "investigate" about a month later when you owe $2500 in storage fees and then they put on a vin and a new york title then send it to auction.
If it's got DOT #'s on the side you will need a medical card, doesn't matter if it's a 1/2 ton or a big truck, another hot fine. 18k gross combined weight, I recently got nailed empty truck and trailer. 🤣 You would be amazed how fast word of DOT set up somewhere travels around here, the other day it spread like wild fire, doesn't take much to be 2-4k in tickets, we look at it as just an extended cost of doing business because they will find something if they want. At somepoint Maine plates will go away.
E-logs are for over 100 miles in 1 direction from your point of registration on a truck newer than 2000, we have 9 big trucks, 12 trailers and 2x 1 tons with #'s and no E-logs. More an OTR thing.
Anything with DOT is attitude, if your halfway decent and your rigs not a wreck they aren't to bad. Honestly for what your doing as long as your not hauling 2k ft and going nuts they will probably leave you alone, "polite ignorance" goes a long ways, or just use an after dark permit. 🤣
I don't know if you can get and how it works up there But I run Farm tag on all my trucks. My insurance for my international 4700 that is 25950 GVR runs me $50 bucks a month for one million. Also running a farm F 25.5 tag I don't need a DOT number or yearly inspections even on my big trucks. My wife drives that 4700 some times because it's a auto and has AC she don't have CDL. But even so running a Farm tag in MS you don't need them with in 150 miles of your base. Most time I load 10 tons on it and they never mess with me. I know up there things are a lot difference we just poor country fokes. if you have both doors on it and wire is not sticking out your tires DOT don't mess with Bobtail trucks.
Try a light weight trailer and cover the logs with a canvas. Now a days I just use a farm tractor and trailer for short hops, getting too old to out run the DOT.
I mostly run NY overnight. Theyre still on the prowl but atleast you are up against one officer mostly looking at his phone and not the whole crew trying to brown nose it up for the supertrooper sgt. When you get nabbed in a 3day blitz they are all on duty and have a lot less leeway as individual humans to overlook your dirty license plate.
And yeah they come right after a maine plate. Ny is probably why maine wont plate shop built trailers anymore. Ended a year or two back.
Barge, are they enforcing the HUT requirement on all the horse trailers there in the Hudson River valley all summer? Living quarters and a dually won't take much to be over 18K.
I can't speak to the legality of any of this, seems like the other guys ha e that covered pretty well.
I worked with a guy who used a metavic on road trailer with loader. Hauled cedar (light wood) behind a 1 ton diesel dodge with an exhaust brake. Said even with the brakes, it was sketchy on hills. Plenty of go power but stopping was another thing. Just something to think of if you're only using a 1/2 ton. Not gonna have a lot of safe tow capacity.
Best bet might be a flatbed trailer or dump trailer and winch them on or parbuckle them up, and yeah, don't take many.
In Maryland its if the truck and trailers gvw combined are over 10k you need a class A CDL, in Delaware its if the vehicle is over 26k towing a trailer over 10k you need a class A CDL. I used to make deliveries and could drive the f250 with a 9990lb gvw trailer in DE but we had to send the guy with a class A with the same rig and put the dot numbers on the truck and trailer to deliver to MD.
Guys, just a small question. Sorry for the hijack.
The big goose necks trailers, that i see on American programs. Do these carry much? You need a cdl licence ?
Thanks guys.
It's gonna be hard to stay legal hauling much for logs behind anything south of a one-ton.
Not proud but this was me a couple weeks ago
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15805/0426181834.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529358680)
This wasn't any better - behind my wife's new 2500HD - went and stopped fine. But I wouldn't have wanted to find myself in a panic stop\turn situation, thank god it was only a 3 mile trip..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15805/0609180934~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529358827)
It's a bad idea but If you're gonna do it, short hauls only, go slow, stay off state highways, stick to low traffic days & times and know you're gonna be in a serious bind if the wrong guys checks on you or you hurt someone
At least you where smart about it, I see these yahoos on FB moving a 240 behind a F-250 with the "if it fits it ships" attitude. My new F-350 would yank my 450J-440D around without issue and has breaks enough to stop it, the trucks from 20yrs ago and today's newer heavy diesels are night and day.
Had an old trucker years ago told me that the best time to haul a questionable load is on Sunday morning five minutes after the local congregation's church bells stop ringing. :D
He was right.
Lots of good input, I have no ambitions at this time to latch on to #10K of logs with my 1/2 ton. Right now I'm trying to coordinate with a local tree service to haul
a 1/2 dozen logs for me, limited success thus far. Make perfect sense to have a big truck with loader arm to do the hard work.
My want is to be able to pickup small loads, Last year I took two trips to haul
about 15 White Cedar, a few other short trip's yielded some Walnut and some Locust all on a small single axle flatbed, no trailer brakes and loaded under 2K based on my rough weight comps.
I'm gonna push around some Idea's based on a 5K military Genset trailer,
#10K tandem mounts and axle assemblies with a electric brakes and see where
that totals out. I know there is a 3/4 or 1 ton in my future.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/mil.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529370435)
D
I have hauled quite a few logs on a car trailer behind my old Toyota pickup. Carried 2- 5' 2x6's to pull the logs up over the side of the trailer, and used chains and a 12 volt winch to pull them up. Park right beside the log parallel to the trailer, bring your cant hook to roll the log back and forth to get the boards and the chains positioned, and winch her onto the trailer.
Quote from: Satamax on June 18, 2018, 04:42:38 PM
The big goose necks trailers, that i see on American programs. Do these carry much? You need a cdl licence ?
More and more jurisdictions are enforcing the 10k trailer CDL-A requirement. And there are many many conflicting regulations, its hard to stay on top of all of them and impossible to get them applied uniformly. That they conflict or that the book says you are right and the officer is wrong does not prevent tickets or get them reduced or dismissed in my experience.
Goosenecks are usually electric brake trailers and most of the time dual tandems are a pair of 10k axles.. They do make 12k but theyre rare and spendy but gaining ground. So your big 8 tire gooseneck is generally 20 to 24k in axle capacity. Subtract the weight of the frame over it to get payload. 3axle duals exist but would be very rare. That size load youre just better of getting a real semi tractor and flatbed with 11R's on it and air brakes.
They work great as long as you have farm plates and a large enough truck say a kodiak or top kick 4500 plus hat has the brakes and tires to match the trailer. I’ve ran over the scales at 35k and just waved at the scale master before with fertilizer. Our trailer is a tandem duals with the 12k axles.
I had 22,500 on my 14k 4 wheeler goose.
It didnt snap, bonus!
Thanks guys.
When you say, 10k, 12k, 35k, that's thousands of pounds? In France, i have a weird licence. Road legal, with whatever weight i want, as long as the towing vehicule is legal with that weight. But the towing vehicule should not exceed 3.5 metric tons. There isn't many left, besides farm tractors.
I have a 18K Camper I pull with my one ton. Most 5th wheel campers there over 10K.
Yes, 10k =10,000.
If a trailer has a pair of 8k [each] axles, itll usually be about a 14k rated trailer because the framework consumes a portion of the axle capacity. All our components have mfr rating tags.
What I'm saying is most all 5th wheel campers are over 10K. I know the people don't have class A CDL that own them. Mine the GVR is 18K. Why dont everyone have to have class A to pull one of them?
The class A requirement is that the trailer is 10,000 or more lbs, rating, AND the combination weight of the tow vehicle and trailer is 26,001 or more lbs. Even a dually with a big 5th wheel is almost always under that, not by much, as the new ones are getting bigger, thus the non CDL-A requirement.
Rec stuff can throw CDL stuff out the window in a hurry look at the big diesel pusher motorhomes if grandpa or great grandpa needed a CDL I don't think you'd see one. Here's one for you air brakes under 26k CDL or not? From memory it's a CDL with an air endorsement all those big buses have air brakes.
If the motor home exceeds 26,001 lbs then a CDL-B becomes necessary, what do you want to bet those are tagged for 25,999. You can get an air brake endorsement for a "regular" drivers license.
You don't need a commercial license for rv's. I know someone who had a 33k International box trick with a jet dragster and a bed in the back on rv plates. An Ohio state cop pulled him over at 4:00 am. When the Mass registry opened they said let him go, it's legit.
Technically, a commercial license isn't required until the weight exceeds 26k, either single or combination. Some states have weird rules, and even the cops don't always know what they are talking about.