I was throwin back a couple of cold ones yesterday evening with friend, when we got talkin about the river.
So what I'd like too know is; How does one "water way" get the "creek" label, others are "streams" some are "brooks" and "runs"? Is it a regional thing or is there more too it?
I was thinkin, maybe it has too do with the length or volume of water.
I didn't google it yet, I figured this would be as good or better.
Thanks
I would think it's a "local" term.
Down here, any moving water is a "River", even a spring fed flow. ::) ;D
you mean a crick?
Quote from: Raider Bill on June 15, 2009, 08:06:31 AM
you mean a crick?
Ouch, how'd that get there, I thought it was in my neck!
Herb
I dunno we always called creeks, cricks
or branch..
In this area, it goes something like this!
Crick - - - - - Usually not over 2-3 feet wide and maybe no more than a foot deep. We have no "CREEKS" here.
Cricks flow into brooks.
Brook - - - - Maybe 20-30 feet wide and varying in depth, from a few inches to several feet.
Brooks flow into branches.
Branch - - - - Usually 30-50 feet wide and varying 10-20 feet deep.
Branches flow into rivers.
River - - - - - Usually well over 50 feet wide, and varying from a few feet to maybe as much as 100 feet deep!
Rivers flow into bigger rivers or the ocean.
Chuck
Anything that small I generally call a rill, unless its only seasonal, in which case it is a sike. 8)
Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on June 15, 2009, 07:23:14 AM
I would think it's a "local" term.
Down here, any moving water is a "River", even a spring fed flow. ::) ;D
Nope, that would be a quebrada, The rivers are only those on the map, quebradas rarely are seen on maps. Size really isn't the issue here, it is length. It could be a big quebrada, but only go a kilometer until it hits a river, or it could be a river, though in our section, very small.
In my experience, creeks are short, rivers are long. Cricks are creeks that go through cow pastures... :D
Must be a colloquial thing. When I was a kid growing up in Georgia, folks usually referred to a small stream as a "branch." Around here, they tend to use "creek" more. You'll never hear anyone call a stream a "brook" unless it is babbling. ::) :D The water around here doesn't usually babble, though some people do. If someone know's the name of a stream, they usually use that term, but there doesn't seem to be any real criteria that assigns the names. I know of creeks that flow into branches, then into other creeks or rivers. Some rivers flow into other rivers, but never into a creek, as far as I know. If you look on a map, you only see creeks, branches, and rivers.
While we're at it, what's the difference between a pond and a lake? :P Why are some named Lake So-and-so, and others named Such-and-such Lake?
And why is Ricky Lake sometimes big and sometimes small?
Water retention. ;D *ducks and runs*
Quote from: Jeff on June 15, 2009, 10:25:31 AM
And why is Ricky Lake sometimes big and sometimes small?
Melt off?
Around here its streams or runs that flow into creeks that flow into rivers that flow into the bay or ocean.
Some of our creeks are bigger than your river definition.
Quote from: DanG on June 15, 2009, 10:23:26 AM
Must be a colloquial thing. When I was a kid growing up in Georgia, folks usually referred to a small stream as a "branch." Around here, they tend to use "creek" more. You'll never hear anyone call a stream a "brook" unless it is babbling. ::) :D The water around here doesn't usually babble, though some people do. If someone know's the name of a stream, they usually use that term, but there doesn't seem to be any real criteria that assigns the names. I know of creeks that flow into branches, then into other creeks or rivers. Some rivers flow into other rivers, but never into a creek, as far as I know. If you look on a map, you only see creeks, branches, and rivers.
While we're at it, what's the difference between a pond and a lake? :P Why are some named Lake So-and-so, and others named Such-and-such Lake?
Among loggers, the only thing that babbles is us... :D
Crick/creek runs into the brook
the brook runs into the stream
the stream runs into the branch/river
the branch runs into the river
the river flows into the seaway
seaway into the golf , then to the ocean .
or something like that . :)
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on June 15, 2009, 11:08:59 AM
Around here its streams or runs that flow into creeks that flow into rivers that flow into the bay or ocean.
Some of our creeks are bigger than your river definition.
Ron, some of our creeks are bigger than some of our rivers, too. We also have a couple of well known "rivers" that ain't rivers at all. They are actually lagoons. The only map of Penn. I have is in the road atlas, but I was able to pick out one "Branch" in your State, and I caught a "Run" sneaking into a river without benefit of a creek. :o Y'all don't seem to have an Ocean at all. You got some frontage on Lake Erie, but my map doesn't indicate that you're contributing much water to it. Most of your rivers seem to be feeding other rivers.
Now that I've thoroughly butchered your post, ;D I'm gonna agree with it. That's just the way I think of them too, except for the "runs" part. Around here, "runs" is something entirely different. :D :D :D
Don't ferget the "fork's".
North fork, south fork, etc. :) :)
LL I know isthat our creeks are much bigger than most(but not all) the rivers in the great plains. I think the people out there are so amazed to find flowing water that they call it a river no matter how small, course a hundred and fifly years ago most of their rivers probably had a lot morer water in them.
Stonebroke
DanG, those branches are usually things like the West Branch of the Susquehanna River. We even have branches on creeks. I've even seen a few branches on trees.
We don't have ocean frontage, but the Delaware river has 56 miles of tidal water in the state. The boat commission says we have 83,261 miles of rivers and streams. There was no mention of creeks or runs, but I'm sure they're included. ;)
More than you wanted to know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_(water)
I'm for sure size has nothing to do with it. The people on the right coast call the ocean a pond. When I'm thier I tell them I live on the other end of the creek. I call the ST. Lawrence Seaway a creek just to keep them happy. ;D
SE
Creek/crick, branch, stream. I have observed it to be a local-colloquial "expression".
However, Mr Webster did address the difference some time ago. Up to you to look it up since I'm too lazy and type too poorly.
I have a copy of Mr. Webster's fine book right here at my left hand, but I've resisted consulting it. This discussion is far too precious to interrupt by an actual answer. I could have answered the original question on the very first reply, but we wouldn't have had this glimpse into one another's concepts and connotations.
Now, just what is it that qualifies a body of water to be called an ocean, a sea, or a gulf? Why do we have inlets, and no outlets? It seems to me that the primary purpose of an inlet is to let the water out. ??? ::) :P
In my neck of the woods a branch is the water between two hollers. Branches can have a seasonal flow but mostly year round.
Branches run into creeks (usually named creeks, the ones you have to leave a buffer zone). Creeks run into a river.
When we built our ponds, the lady from the Ag Dept. told us not to call the branches "creeks". They were technically water shed runoff. She said if they were creeks then we would have to have the Corps approve the plan.
We have two springs, places where water comes up from the ground.
Anything with enough flowing water to get your feet wet is a creek. If its too wide to jump across its a river, doesn't matter how deep it is.
My Beaver River is one of only 2 in Alberta that don't start in the mountain glaciers.
Run - Smallest of all, usually only a few feet wide, and almost always seasonal. Usually found in ditches between fields.
Stream - smaller than a creek 5-10 feet wide, usually fed by a spring or drainage from fields. Sometimes seasonal.
Creek - Usually bigger than a stream, year-round, usually starts out as a stream and gets bigger as you go downstream. Fed by springs and streams.
River - Anything over 20 feet, that you can't just walk across. (although wading can be possible.)
tyb525
:) :)
Where did you come up with these definitions?
local...
Some how I new this would turn in too a North and south slang war ;) :D I just a mut cross-bred between both ( I said cross-bred not in-bred ;D)
Any how, I forgot about "branches & forks", usually around here it would be like; south branch of the potomac."forks" usually refer too where two branches come together.
I have whats named on maps as stoney creek, sorry, for you southerners stoney crick that goes through my little piece of earth. I call it a "run", because it "runs" through my property. ;) ;D ;D The "cacapon river" is mostly called a crick or creek by locals.
the term "brooks" ain't used here, but "stream" seems only to be used if it has trout in it. I guess trout stream sounds better than trout creek or crick.
Not to change subject, but is it; ya'll or you'ens, home or holme :D :D
growin up around the Mason-Dixon, you get both sides. I ain't a "rebel" or a "yank", just an American Mut. ;D ;D
hey I thought the deleware belonged to New Jersey!! :D :D :D :D
We have the merrimack river here, it flows due south through New Hampshire untill it comes to Tyngsborough Mass when it hangs a wicked 100 degree left hand turn and flows north east out to the atlantic ocean
In my research I found that one king granted all of the land north of the merrimack to someone then another king granted all of the land east of the merrimack to someone else. there was a huge fight between these two till they realized/ran into and indian by the name of Passaconway who really owned all of the land around the river where it makes the turn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrimack_River
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passaconaway
http://www.johnjhenderson.com/Notables/Biographies/passaconaway.htm
http://www.seacoastnh.com/History/As_I_Please/Tracking_Passaconaway/
Quote from: tyb525 on June 16, 2009, 12:57:24 AM
Run - Smallest of all, usually only a few feet wide, and almost always seasonal. Usually found in ditches between fields.
Stream - smaller than a creek 5-10 feet wide, usually fed by a spring or drainage from fields. Sometimes seasonal.
Creek - Usually bigger than a stream, year-round, usually starts out as a stream and gets bigger as you go downstream. Fed by springs and streams.
River - Anything over 20 feet, that you can't just walk across. (although wading can be possible.)
The problem with these definitions is they don't take into account that rivers don't start off as 20 feet across. We have Rio Caño Ciego in one of our fincas, but in that finca, it is probably not more than 10 feet across, BUT where it connects to the Rio Frio, it is much more than 20 feet across, about 50 kilometers down stream.
The start of a river may well be a spring. So, I have to say that it is length and perhaps amount of feeders into it that defines a river.
Quote from: Ironmower on June 16, 2009, 06:31:55 AM
........... a North and south slang war ;) :D ................ I guess trout stream sounds better than trout creek or crick.
..............
Don't see it as a North vs South.
Grew up with a crick to play in (north central Iowa) and now live near the Black Earth Creek that is one of the better trout streams :) in the midwest. (some call it the crick). Within a few mile of it's origin, it is running more than 20' across.
http://www.madison.com/communities/becwa/
Appears it is a local thing, and names just get attached and stick with no amount of "definition" really behind them :) :)
Growing up in Central NY, we had,
Brooks, smallest, flowed into cricks
Cricks sometimes pronounced creeks ;D flowed into rivers
Rivers flowed into lakes.
but every now and then those circks and streams and streams are referred to as runs...
Quote from: DanG on June 15, 2009, 09:42:43 PM
Now, just what is it that qualifies a body of water to be called an ocean, a sea, or a gulf? Why do we have inlets, and no outlets? It seems to me that the primary purpose of an inlet is to let the water out. ??? ::) :P
what did you do with the deltas and backwaters???
Quote from: Raider Bill on June 16, 2009, 10:48:07 AM
Growing up in Central NY, we had,
Brooks, smallest, flowed into cricks
Cricks sometimes pronounced creeks ;D flowed into rivers
Rivers flowed into lakes.
It is a brook if it has brookies in it. It is a creek, if it has creek chubs. It is a river if there is a river rat living on the bank.
I mean, they live there, surely they know what it is?! ::)
Quote from: tyb525 on June 16, 2009, 12:57:24 AM
Run - Smallest of all, usually only a few feet wide, and almost always seasonal. Usually found in ditches between fields.
Stream - smaller than a creek 5-10 feet wide, usually fed by a spring or drainage from fields. Sometimes seasonal.
Creek - Usually bigger than a stream, year-round, usually starts out as a stream and gets bigger as you go downstream. Fed by springs and streams.
River - Anything over 20 feet, that you can't just walk across. (although wading can be possible.)
and where does "brook" fit into all this???
but isnt it crick, creek and then stream???
"Brooks" only fit in where there are a bunch of foresters, loggers, and woodworkers standing around it 'babbling'. ;) In fact, if you view the flow of information on the internet as a 'stream', 'river', etc, then I think it safe to say the portion that is the FF is definitely a 'brook'. ;D
I am definitely up the crick without a paddle
Looks to me like we got two sets of questions here. One is about what term we use to describe a waterway, and the other is about official names. I think the official names were determined by whoever named them to start with. Hurricane Branch, near here, was probably named by someone who called them "branches." Mosquito Creek, which is a tributary of Hurricane Branch, would have been named by someone who called them "creeks". Spring Creek, a little north of here is one of "the Three Rivers" that make up Lake Seminole, and is plenty big enough to deserve a river name. It was probably named by someone who never saw the big end of it. ::)
those are some place near the intercoastal and over from the canal....
but not to be confused with the sluice...
but the moat has to figure in there some place....
which reminds me..
this now brings up the issue of the wadi....
and are you ignoring yur freshets???
Well, they all have banks and currents, and our Banks handle our currency. The Banks direct the flow of money. Where or who is it directed too?
We have brooks, streams and rivers, thats about it. At times I can jump across anyone of them.
Tim
Quote from: DanG on June 15, 2009, 09:42:43 PM
I have a copy of Mr. Webster's fine book right here at my left hand, but I've resisted consulting it. This discussion is far too precious to interrupt by an actual answer. I could have answered the original question on the very first reply, but we wouldn't have had this glimpse into one another's concepts and connotations.
Now, just what is it that qualifies a body of water to be called an ocean, a sea, or a gulf? Why do we have inlets, and no outlets? It seems to me that the primary purpose of an inlet is to let the water out. ??? ::) :P
I should've seen that one coming!!
and at times one boot hitsa water :D :D :D
Now this is from growing up in Western PA...
Smallest = brook (babbling, but not really flowing)
Just finally flowing = "Crick"
a slightly larger crick is a "Creek"
A mature creek is a "Stream"
Rivers are pretty big, indeed (way bigger than the little tiny things people out west called / call 'rivers'! - specially in Utah from what I've seen).
My definitions are picked up from what ive heard in my 17 years, so it's purely regional. Of course there are those "foreigners" that mistakenly call a creek a brook. :D Anyways you define them, I think it's pretty easy to get the point.
Here in Michigan we catch brook trout out of trout streams. You rarely if ever here the term brook, only creek or stream. Creek, or crick, for the smallest streams, those typically you could jump across. Streams are bigger, for the most part can be waded, then rivers.
Quote from: Jeff on June 18, 2009, 04:08:12 PM
Here in Michigan we catch brook trout out of trout streams. You rarely if ever here the term brook, only creek or stream. Creek, or crick, for the smallest streams, those typically you could jump across. Streams are bigger, for the most part can be waded, then rivers.
Then western PA and Michigan agree!
Western PA and central PA have a good amount more hills than I think Michigan does, so I imagine one could stumble across a brook once in a while in PA... but the term is rarely heard there, too.
We have water 'spring'ing up from the sides of hills, too, but no-one asked about springs.
Now how many of you all grew up with jagger bushes (thorns) and called people you thought were idiots "Jag-Offs"? (hope that term doesn't offend anyone too much here...)
We call thorn trees and bushes Wait-a-minutes. Cause that is what you have to tell the guy in front as you try to get through them.
:D
On the West Coast (CA), we have creeks and streams (sometimes seasonal creeks if they dry up) and rivers. Seems like there aren't any brooks, but we do have sloughs (murky, slow water, generally occupied with cattails or other vegetation).
Ray
Add lick and kill to your list of running waters.
The stream on my land in central NY was named lick. Someone mistakenly called it Lick Creek and that is now on the maps. Schuylkill River in PA and Deerkill NY are examples for kill.
If there's branch lettuce growing there its a "branch". At least thats what we say in the mountains. Splitter
A crick or creek can also be a drink .
Quote from: Don_Papenburg on June 18, 2009, 10:49:09 PM
A crick or creek can also be a drink .
Yea, that's what I thought one miserably hot day while running skidder on the Capert Ranch in clare county. I had my eye on the little crick that was running swiftly over a gravel bottom. I got out of the skidder and walked down to the creek, I snapped the innards out of my hard hat, then rinsed the hat out real good, then scooped up a nice hat full of clean cold water and took a long satisfying drink. I dumped the rest of the water out and gave a long sigh of satisfaction JUST the instant before I looked up the creek and saw the dead bloated sheep laying in the middle.
Just think, if you had of looked up sooner, you would have been thirsty.
:D :D :D :D There just ain't no substitute for being careful, is there?
First time I heard the term "wait-a-minute" was in Basic Training back in 1967. We were shown a vine with some wicked thorns on it, and were told that it was "Wait-a-minute Vine". I had seen this stuff all my life, but never had a name for it, so that's what I called it from then on. Just recently, while looking up something from the "Tree and Plant ID" board, I ran across it. It is called Greenbriar. It is so obnoxious that GM named one of the worst vehicles they ever made after it! ::) :D :D :D It is coming up rampantly around here right now. The stuff grows several feet per day, and can reach the top of a pretty good tree in a couple of weeks. :o
To me, a stream is a generic term that covers them all, from the smallest branch to the biggest river, but that is just my connotation of the term. A lick is just a salt deposit where animals come to lick the ground for salt. I always figured that "Lick Creek" was just a stream that had a salt lick. I look at maps quite a bit, and notice that there are a lot of "Lick Creeks". A slough is a very specific thing, officially. It is an area beside a stream that gathers water after a flood. In this flat country around here, it is common for there to be two bridges over a river, one for the river, and one for the slough.
Jeff , you are safe if it is bloated that means all the orfices that emit nasties are all swelled shut . Now if you looked up and it was just finnished deflating that would be a problem . but you would have smetl it before you got the innerds outa your hard hat.
Don't remember where I heard it. It was said that flowin water, over rocks, will "purify" the water in 50 ft (don't remember exact distance, likely further)
I personally ain't gonna try it, but it would be an interesting test.
Test the water with contaminents ( like where the sheep is layin), go down stream, and check again.
Quote from: Ironmower on June 20, 2009, 08:37:44 AM
Don't remember where I heard it. It was said that flowin water, over rocks, will "purify" the water in 50 ft (don't remember exact distance, likely further)
I personally ain't gonna try it, but it would be an interesting test.
Test the water with contaminents ( like where the sheep is layin), go down stream, and check again.
I don't know - My buddy tells a story of a pristine stream & waterfall system he found that he later found out was the equivalent of something like hydrochloric acid. To look at it no-one would know, but... lol.