Single wall stovepipe and unseasoned wood

[Papa]

I just put a new wood burner in my mobile home, couldn't afford the double walled setup and through the ceiling installation, so until I can have that setup for next fall I tried using the cheap stuff, and ran it through a spot where I took out a busted window 32 by 40 opening. I covered that on both sides with sheet metal (Pretty thin stuff) ran a double wall pc in there and the rest single wall. Well I thought it wasn't a great setup, but it may get me by until next year. Next problem was I didn't want to buy any firewood so I started cutting from my property, some nice cherry some white oak, and maple. I let some dry in the house for a week before I used it but knowing it wasn't seasoned I thought I might have some problems. It was hard to get the fires started but eventually I would get one going and the wood seemed to burn ok I burned for 3 or 4 days and everything seemed fine until I started seeing liquid creosote oozing out of the seems of the single walled pipe. I hoped it would burn off but then on last day I used it the other day I looked out the window and creosote was pouring from the elbow outside, and then the pipes inside started smoking out the seems esp when the wind kicked up which was a very windy day. The pipes are pretty covered outside with the creosote leaks. I screwed the single walled pipes and put fireproof sealant on them when installing. Needless to say it scared me pretty good and I haven't used it since but I really want to so should I try it again?, make sure I don't burn on windy days? Stop unless I have dry wood, or just give up until next year, because I just can't bring myself to buy any dry wood. What I was using mostly was the cherry wood which seemed pretty dry even it was just cut down and once I had some good hot coals going it would pick up and burn.

[submarinesailor]

Papa,

If I was you, I would STOP USING IT!!!!!!!

The first question that comes to mind...did you put the pipe together correctly???  Do you have the male ends point towards the fire or male end down.  This should keep most of the creosote on the inside.  One other key point to remember,is that creosote burns very hot near 2000 degrees:  http://www.hearth.com/what/guidelines.html.  Which is hot enough to damage some metal pipes.  I believe if you used the cheap thin wall stuff, 26 ga or thinner, you are in danger.  Do you have SEVERAL smoke and a carbon monoxide detectors for your, and your families', protection?

Bruce

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum.

Prolly several of us burning wood have learned about creosote drips and green wood the hard way.

It sounds to me like you have the male ends of your stove pipe up and/or out. The male ends should point to the stove so any creosote drips/runs back to the stove (not out the joints).

But if me, I'd hold off until you get dry wood. And wood cut now won't be very dry even by this fall, so no time like the present to start laying in a good supply that is split and stacked for drying to be burned next winter.

A couple of woods like shagbark hickory and white ash can be burned sooner than some woods like oak. Oak takes a good season and half to begin to be burnable without problems and with good heat output.

[JohnW]

Hey Papa, it sounds like you did your pipes backward.  An upper pipe is supposed to go inside a lower pipe (like gutter pipe) so the creasote flows.  Don't worry about the smoke, it'll flow.

[Papa]

Thanks for the replies , yeah I think I will stop using until I get my wood seasoned and fix up the double wall through the roof like I was wanting to do. yeah I have the male end going to stove. Thanks again

[Al_Smith]

As a generally accepted rule of thumb it's not considered a safe practice to install a wood stove in a mobile home unless special installation practices are observed.

Firstly the way a mobile home is constructed it's not considered to be of fire retardant materials .The older it is most likely the worst for that construction you will find .

In the case of a fire those older ones will combust like a paper bag and be burned to the frame in a matter of minutes .

I don't mean to be negative about the adode or to scare anybody but people usually don't make it out of a mobile home fire .

[submarinesailor]

Just thought of another question for you.  Do you have several large fire extinguishers?

Bruce

[Jeff]

I totally agree with Al Smith on this, I'm guessing you don't have any home owners  if you are burning wood in a mobile home, or that if you do, they don't know about it.

I've seen too many mobile home fires here in Michigan. Fire extinguishers will do little good unless you happen to be looking at the spot that is going to combust before it does, with the extinguisher in hand. If the mobile home has the older crank out trailer windows, escape is futile. They are death traps.

Don't think I'm looking down on the mobile home. I was raised in one, but they are what they are. From 2nd grade until I moved out after graduation. We did burn wood, but our home was a rarity, Dad put it on a full basement. The stove was in the basement, the stove pipe went through the masonry wall, under ground to a free standing masonry chimney.

[John Mc]

Folks do put wood stoves or pellet stoves in mobile homes out here pretty regularly, but you do need to know what you are doing to get the installation right. If I followed your description, it sounds like you at least got the double wall pipe section in the most important spot. I'm far from an expert at mobile home wood stove installation, but I know there is more to it than just that. Often heat shields are required, especially where clearances are tight around the stove.

The single biggest recommendation I can make is to get someone knowledgable to check out the installation. In my area, there are groups that will do this for free or very little charge for folks with a financial need.

Just as important is to burn PROPERLY seasoned wood in your stove. Burning green wood makes for a colder, "smoldery" fire that produces a lot of creosote. This causes a serious risk of a chimney fire. If you are buying, you can often buy green wood cheaper, but this is a false economy, since you lose up to 40% of your BTUs as compared to burning the same wood dry/seasoned. (This comes from a combination of wasting heat vaporizing all that water in the wood, and the cooler burn fails to ignite the gasses which come off the wood, wasting a significant source of BTUs.)

If you are cutting your own wood, there are a couple of good threads on here somewhere about seasoning and the time it takes. I don't know where you are located, but in most parts of the country, we're talking MONTHS, not weeks, and getting wood well seasoned in less than a year takes some pretty good stacking and storage methods. (Don't count on much drying to happen when the temperature of your wood pile is much below freezing. You need heat and good airflow to dry wood in a reasonable time.) If you have to burn green, Ash and American Beech are two good woods to consider. The Oak you mentioned would be the last thing I burned if it was alive when you cut it -- In my experience, it takes about double the time to dry that other hardwoods do.

For some good wood burning and seasoning tips, check out Woodheat.org

[Al_Smith]

My buddy had one but it was in a later model mobile home,big one 14 by 70 .He built a side nook for it between his connecting breeze way to his garage and installed it with heat shields ,masonary tile floor,triple wall pipe etc .

Actually it was probabley as safe  the average home installation the way he did it .

[Handy Andy]

  My new wood stove is recommended for mobile homes. Guess they stock ones that have a wide variety of applications.  Hope you bought a stove that is safe in a mobile home.  They do make a through the wall flue kit so you don't have to cut a hole in the roof. Do you have a pitched roof or flat?

[r.man]

I will second, or third, the recommendation about getting someone to give you advice on safety. Heat shields on nearby surfaces are very important and don't forget the floor under and in front of the stove. I have seen lots of burn marks on floors around stoves over the years. You need to go way out in front and practice safe loading and burning habits. As to the green wood you can burn it but you need to clean the pipes on a regular basis. Start ridiculously soon after burning and work your way up to what is a reasonable length of time for your situation. You are the best one to determine this time since every situation is different. Do not skimp on cleaning pipes, ever. Do a good complete job every time, replace anything that needs it and if in doubt clean. Your life may depend on it.   

[shelbycharger400]

the best instilation is having the pipe comming off the stove in as straight as possible,  to develope a good draft

all i burn here is mix,  oak ash elm maple boxelder, popple.   too many people think they HAVE to burn just oak to get good heat.    due note.,. i can cut 2 to 3x amount of material in same time with popple and boxelder than it dose cutting oak and elm.  You dont burn 2x as much for heat tho.   just have to have a decent plate stove!

[downeast]

All of the above: pipe install, green wood, no CO detectors. Sounds dangerous.

What kind of stove are you using ?

As a fill-in for fuel, try looking at construction site cut-offs, cabinetmakers' hardwood scraps, demolition debris in dumps; we all did that at some point. But year-round look around for roadside firewood from tree crews, ask arborists to drop off their cuttings, call the highway dept guys. There's plenty of scrounge sources, but it's a year-round job long before you'll burn.

Just an opinion: don't go cheap on stove pipe. Yes, the double walled and high gauge pipe is $$$$. It's smart to go safe and efficient. The 26 thin cheap pipe sold too often at hardware stores is more than "cheap". Unsafe and doesn't last long.

[talldog]

I pretty much agree with all the experts above.Just wanted to add something about roadside cuttings from tree crews.That wood that has been trimmed for power or visibility belongs to the landowner directly behind it!Do not take this without seeking landowner permission.When Maine had THE ICE storm in '98,there was a lot of roadside cuttings.My father in law was fitting up some nice oak that was cut right by the end of his driveway.( his property)He went back to the house for lunch.When he came back,there was a guy loading his recently fitted wood into his pickup.They had a few words,I would have many words,and the guy drove off.I believe the sheriff was contacted and he educated the guy up the road with a pickup full of oak.
  So ask first!

[downeast]

Neighbor: roadside "ownership" varies by local custom, by legal property rights, by town. Most roads along with some feet on either side are legal property of the state or locality, not the abutting property owner. Sometimes the property owner does own up to the pavement. It all depends.
Butt: you're right about the asking first; it's a courtesy. Why Law Enforcement was brought in is a waste of their time....or, there were and are other ways of handling this since who actually "owns" the right of way is not clear ( Modifed the "waste of time" statement ).

Now, are you sure that in your dad's town, the property owner owns up to the pavement with only a right of way easement for the road ?
No firefight over this is worth it, and making the assumption that the guy was stealing. Give him the break of innocence...first. Better ( if you're sure of ownership ) to explain that the wood is for the owner and remove it from the truck. Law enforcement has more vital things to do for us.

[talldog]

Waste of their time!!??How would you like it if someone helped themselves to a bunch of wood on your property that you had just spent a half a day fitting up?You are right about the State and power companies having a right of way so many feet wide,but that wood belongs to the landowner.

[downeast]

Waste of their time!!??How would you like it if someone helped themselves to a bunch of wood on your property that you had just spent a half a day fitting up?You are right about the State and power companies having a right of way so many feet wide,but that wood belongs to the landowner.

The woodlot we have is owned property. Taking of timber would be cause for action IF the thief could get gear onto the woodlot. It was bought long ago for income ( sawlogs and pulp), and forever firewood.

See my modified post above,  Talldog.

[Qweaver]

I have a friend that has a tree service and they sell tons of green split firewood.  It is a large part of their income.  They actually think that burning green is OK and even better in most cases.  Maybe their customers are drying the wood before using it...I don't think so.  I burned a green load of Oak wood a few years back before I knew better and we had a pipe fire.  We got lucky and had no damage but I learned my lesson from that scary event.  That pipe was red hot for almost it's whole length.  The top of the pipe looked like a big blow torch. 

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Neighbor: roadside "ownership" varies by local custom, by legal property rights, by town. Most roads along with some feet on either side are legal property of the state or locality, not the abutting property owner. Sometimes the property owner does own up to the pavement. It all depends.
Butt: you're right about the asking first; it's a courtesy. Why Law Enforcement was brought in is a waste of their time....or, there were and are other ways of handling this since who actually "owns" the right of way is not clear ( Modifed the "waste of time" statement ).

Now, are you sure that in your dad's town, the property owner owns up to the pavement with only a right of way easement for the road ?
No firefight over this is worth it, and making the assumption that the guy was stealing. Give him the break of innocence...first. Better ( if you're sure of ownership ) to explain that the wood is for the owner and remove it from the truck. Law enforcement has more vital things to do for us.

My deed states that I own to the center of the road. I actually beat a ticket because of this. I was driving an unregistered truck from one part of the farm to the other on 'my' land (road), while a State Trooper just happened to be making his rounds (not too often out here). After some discussion, he ticketed me anyway. In court, I argued my point with documentation and the JOP dropped the charges. He said to, please, just get some farm plates to avoid any future hassles.

[downeast]

Neighbor: roadside "ownership" varies by local custom, by legal property rights, by town. Most roads along with some feet on either side are legal property of the state or locality, not the abutting property owner. Sometimes the property owner does own up to the pavement. It all depends.
Butt: you're right about the asking first; it's a courtesy. Why Law Enforcement was brought in is a waste of their time....or, there were and are other ways of handling this since who actually "owns" the right of way is not clear ( Modifed the "waste of time" statement ).

Now, are you sure that in your dad's town, the property owner owns up to the pavement with only a right of way easement for the road ?
No firefight over this is worth it, and making the assumption that the guy was stealing. Give him the break of innocence...first. Better ( if you're sure of ownership ) to explain that the wood is for the owner and remove it from the truck. Law enforcement has more vital things to do for us.

My deed states that I own to the center of the road. I actually beat a ticket because of this. I was driving an unregistered truck from one part of the farm to the other on 'my' land (road), while a State Trooper just happened to be making his rounds (not too often out here). After some discussion, he ticketed me anyway. In court, I argued my point with documentation and the JOP dropped the charges. He said to, please, just get some farm plates to avoid any future hassles.

Yup, it all depends who owns what, and where. Good thing to know.

[SwampDonkey]

Never heard of owning to the centre of the road, unless it's private road. On public road government owns a crown reserved right of way and they can move it by expropriation if they  want to shift it or widen it. On the river, the government expropriated a set back from the river where they have head pond. So them old deeds that said one ones to the centre of the river  won't hold in court, only own up to the set back. In fact it can be moved as the river bank erodes. In the woods, often there are crown reserves on baselines separated a tier of lots. These often get cut by adjoining neighbors, but is actually considered theft unless a permit is applied for from DNR.

[beenthere]

That be in Canada, right?

[downeast]

Hey, we got rid of The Crown in 1776. 8)

Sorry yes, "that be in Canada".  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

That may be true, but the crown is the government and as far as I know you still  have lots of government. Reserves like what I talked about is to everyone's benefit being you don't have to fight for access because some bum thinks they own it.  8)

[Corley5]

Primary county roads here have a 60' defined ROW while some 2ndaries only have a 30'.  We own to and pay taxes on land to the center.  It takes a court order for the county or state to move the road out of the ROW if the landowner doesn't agree.  That's how it works here 

[John Mc]

We own to the center of the road on my property here in Vermont (and no, it's not a private road). The town holds a right of way or easement (I forget which is the official term in this case). Trees along the edge are mine. If the town or a utility cuts them, I have right to the wood. I know in some cases the guys doing the trimming offer to haul it away as a "service" to the landowner.

[Corley5]

A few years ago the power company did some serious trimming along their lines that run on state land across the road from my place.  A couple guys got caught by a conservation officer cutting on the piles of sugar maple the trimmers left.  Their fines for not having fuel wood permits were pretty DanG steep.  Just because it's laying there doesn't mean it's free for the taking   

[SwampDonkey]

We own power line rights of way up here and usually if they clear the lines and trees they ask permission especially on yard trees. Not so much on woodlot frontage, they just trim and cut as they need to. But, if any need cut you get the wood of course but no money from the utility. Also, if it's along the road on woodlot frontage you better get it as quick as you can get to it because someone else will come along and just take it. Theft, but it will happen. The government here will expropriate, but there will be meetings with the public before the ground work, there is some compensation quite often, but it is what the government determines not you. This has one advantage as it doesn't hold anything up any longer than necessary. Everyone likes power and roads to drive on and most of us see it the same way. 

[downeast]

We own to the center of the road on my property here in Vermont (and no, it's not a private road). The town holds a right of way or easement (I forget which is the official term in this case). Trees along the edge are mine. If the town or a utility cuts them, I have right to the wood. I know in some cases the guys doing the trimming offer to haul it away as a "service" to the landowner.

"Right of way" is only one kind of easement. Ownership is property and rights to the property.

It all comes down to due diligence concerning who has rights/ownership to where and what. Example of our easement in the deed includes our access over our two neighbors' land on a mutually maintained road ( ~ 1 mile ) to our property. Other easements are restrictions on buildings' height and use, restriction of subdividing for any sale or gift, and easements for setbacks from mean high water.

It gets detailed and often complex. The land is also under a "current use" Tree Growth: a positive restriction of usage.

Then there are informal uses such as NOT posting against hunting, "hunting with permission"; too many deer and turkeys here. Neighbors and friends do hunt since we prefer not to. As Lord of the Manor (sic) we usually get some cuts. 

With all the serious crimes around, it's a stretch to call the cops for firewood scrounging on roadsides. Call it "theft" if you want. Ask if possible, but usually it becomes a spur-of-the-moment thing. We roadside scrounged for years in a northern Massachusetts suburb; wood would ( sorry ) sit in ditches or on the road shoulder for weeks. I'd keep work clothes and a small saw in the car for this commuting. Much of the yearly firewood came from roadsides then; a few logs picked up each week over the year made close to what was needed. No screaming 'owners', no cops (they'd wave), no court.

[SwampDonkey]

Nobody would bother reporting road side firewood pick up here either, but around here wood isn't usually left for weeks. The owner usually wants it as quick as he can get it, as wood is not treated as waste in rural NB.

[downeast]

Nobody would bother reporting road side firewood pick up here either, but around here wood isn't usually left for weeks. The owner usually wants it as quick as he can get it, as wood is not treated as waste in rural NB.

...nor in rural Maine, or any rural region. Too many depend on wood for heating since Maine has little low cost nat'l gas.....oil and propane are close to $4./gallon.

Back to the O.P.'s dilemma. I hope that he takes some of the solid advice about safe burning here. CO and smoke detectors with a safe install are mandatory for the life of your family.

[Jemclimber]

People don't "own" any land. You lease it from the government with certain rights and restrictions. If you think this is not true don't pay your lease, aka taxes, and see how long it takes the government to take what belongs to them and evict you to lease it to someone else.

[36 coupe]

Late reply but you are doing every thing wrong.I am 75 and have spent 2 winters in a house with out wood heat..Fireman for 35 years, building inspector for 15,single wall outside stove pipes are are illegal here.Single wall stove pipe rusts out fast and adjustable elbows will fall apart.The only wood you can burn green is  White Ash.Standing deadwood is good.Any thing else will just sizzle and make creosote.There are plenty of good books on heating with wood.You can buy good used books for 3 to 5 bucks.If you have children  I saw a burned 3 year old boy in 1970.People are strange, you can tell them how to set up a stove safely ,They will look at you like you are crazy.You could buy the insulated pipe one piece at a time if money is short.My friend has a wood stove in a mobile home and has no problems.He did it right.

[Yoopersaw]

All of this is excellent advice.  I reccommend listening to it.  My sister burned to death because of incorrect heating useage  this past March in Pennsylvania.

[clww]

Here's a story I'll throw in for consideration:
When I go to our property in Highland County, VA on Route 250, heading west between Staunton and Churchville, there sits an old, two-story farmhouse, about 20 yards from the roadway. Starting last fall and through the winter months, the young people living there were burning a wood stove. The problem was that they did not utilize any of the house's three chimneys, for whatever reason. Maybe these were all unusable. They had run a normal stove pipe out the kitchen window! The pipe came out maybe 18" then followed the profile of the house upward to maybe two feet above the lowest point of the roof. They DID remove part of the gutter, soffit and roof for a uninterrupted straight line upwards, too. Unbelievable! The pipe was attached to the house outside the second story window, and again at the top, with what looked like coat hangers. I told my wife one time as we drove past, "That house is going to burn down one night".
I was dumbfounded the first couple of months we'd drive by that old house and see smoke coming out the stovepipe. I also noticed in January that the otside wall had started to lose paint and become darker behind the pipe due to the heat emitted. I contacted the Augusta County fire marshal, then the sheriff's office to express my concern. I don't know if anything was ever done by the authorities, but probably not.
In early February, I was making another trip up to Williamsville one morning. The house had caught on fire, and burned a large portion of the back half down. All the windows were busted out and there was smoke and soot around them. There were two pickup trucks backed up to the front porch area, loading up whatever could be salvaged after the fire I guess.
This was like watching a car crash happen in slow motion for five months. You knew it was going to happen sooner or later. I don't know if there were any injuries or deaths associated with this house fire.

[Al_Smith]

Although a lot of people do it ,it's not a safe practice to run stove pipe up the side of a house .It's just an accident waiting to happen .

FWIW although you may pay taxes to the middle of the road,street, alley whatever in Ohio  it's public right of way including the side ditchs .

Any utility company such as natural gas ,electric etc. that has an easement also has the right to maintain .This includes trimming the trees .They usually ask and in my case there isn't much they need to do as I keep them clear any way .If somebody is going to mess up my trees I'll be the one doing it ,thank you very much . ;)

[tcsmpsi]

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I had a new bride.  She was new to the art of tending a wood heater.  Coming in from work about dusk one evening,  I could see, as I approached the homestead, great, billowing smoke coming from the stovepipe.  During my increased approach , I am pleading to please, please not open the door on the woodstove and just let me get there.  I could tell by the smoke, she had kept adding wood (more wood=more heat)(bless her heart), without letting it catch up, and it had smouldered to the nth degree.  As I was opening the door to come in, I saw her stoop to open the door.  Fortunately, the old parlor stove had eyes in the top.  Blew both of them to the ceiling.  Scared the whingdinkus out of her.  Fortunately, I was there and got everything quickly under control.  Sometimes it is good to be the 'hero'.  ;)  It was a good lesson that she was most eager to know.  A lot of what I had previously explained in the manner of operations became much more clear.

I have never found any benefit of burning green wood. 

Here, 3 or 4 years ago, I got us one of them newfangled EPA/mobile home certified, closed cell, baffeled, 'how the heck does this thing work?', woodstoves.  Shucks man, that thing is the cat's meow.  Good thing, for getting that 22" firewood burner up the stairs into the house was a doublenaught chore. 

I know how money can be tight, and heat/cooking necessary.   Single wall pipe, out the window/wall, etc. are all fine, BUT have very sincere limitations.   It can all be made as safe as anything else with proper considerations to fundamental rules of nature.  Fire.  Get some help.  On the quiet if you have to (regulations, etc.).  Being burned ain't no pleasant exercise.  A few dollars toward safety, properly applied, is cheap.

Good thoughts and suggestions throughout this thread.

[Al_Smith]

You get a big long section of stove pipe or even 6-8 inch steel pipe going up the outside of a structure the smoke will condense and fill the pipe full of oily creosote .It's only a matter of time before it catchs fire and then heavens only knows what could happen .Usually not good .

It wasn't so much of a problem back in the days of the Warm Mornings or Round Oak non air tight stoves .It is now of days though with air tights .

[SwampDonkey]

You get that stuff burning in the pipes and they are going to expand. It swells up like spray on foam insulation. Better hope it's not the snap together stuff, but it's not probably going to matter much.