New blade burning not cutting.

[Stevenjohn21]

I've had a recent issue on my mill so one of the suggestions was to change the blade on my hm130max. 
I have woodmizer blades so I took off a 10 degree blade and put on a 7 degree blade to cut a basswood. 
The blade barely cut 1" into the wood and was smoking. I could smell the wood burning. I switched back to a 10 degree blade and it cut as it should. 
 Is this a faulty blade or does the degree make that big of a difference? 

[Old Greenhorn]

Um, you are going to think I am a wise guy, and maybe I am, but in this case, no. Don't get insulted, many of us has done this, but is it possible you put that bade on backwards? That is, with the teeth pointed in the wrong direction? None of us realize this is even possible, but in fact it is. I think this is what happened here.
 OH, and I said "many of us has done this" but I in fact, have not done it myself. I can neither confirm nor deny whether or not I have caught myself in the act of doing it though. I check every time these days.
 Somewhere on the forum there is even a thread about flipping blades inside out to get them facing the right way.

[fluidpowerpro]

I agree with OG. Must be a blade for use in Australia   :D

[Stevenjohn21]

Now you've got me super confused! 
How in the world is it possible to put a blade on wrong? Either the teeth are facing the log or they are facing the back guide ..... which I admit I'm not the brightest but I definitely do that 🤣

[btulloh]

A blade can be turned inside out and make the teeth face the other direction. It happens. 

[fluidpowerpro]

The tooth is still facing the log, but the tooth profile is facing the wrong way relative to the saws rotation.
To correct it, hold the blade with both hands, one at 3:00 and one at 9:00. Now twist the blade "inside out" and the teeth will be facing the other way.

[Patrick NC]

Had a whole box of new blades that were shipped to me "inside out ". Won't name the supplier. 

[Stevenjohn21]

🤦‍♂️ I feel like a complete idiot!

I didn't even think about it being inside out. This was suppose to be a fun hobby, it's making me feel dumber everyday 😞

[SawyerTed]

Forget about it!  

Remember we have a Did Something Dumb thread you can read when you want to feel better about yourself.  :D

Mark it up to learning and go on.  We typically don't remind anybody about their mistakes until they occur 7 or 8 times.

[thecfarm]

I got a free WM blade from the anniversary show.
That blade had to be turned inside out for it to run on the Thomas mill that I have.
Somehow, I could tell it was backwards. But I took a black marker and drew the design on the cover so I would remember.

[Southside]

I have done it a couple of times. The first time with plenty of witnesses and a dry 8" reclaimed white oak on the mill.  The noise sounded like we were killing hogs.

[Old Greenhorn]

🤦‍♂️ I feel like a complete idiot!
......... This was suppose to be a fun hobby, it's making me feel dumber everyday 😞

Whoa now! Back up the truck there just a minute pard'. This IS a fun hobby, and what you (allegedly) may have done is something you should laugh at.....HARD and LONG. I did when I caught myself doing the same thing, you should too. This is not a tramp through the daisy's, it complicated and there is hard work and learning involved. There are a lot of (simple) things to learn, but as was mentioned, it is a long list. Back up a bit, relax, take a breath, learn to laugh a bit more, then dive back in. We call most of this stuff "required mistakes" because EVERYBODY makes most of them, like hitting a backstop or clamp. Have you done it yet? Of course not, but you will, there is no question. It might take a few years, even a decade, but you will. OTOH, you may do it next week. But whenever you do it, don't be shocked and give up for the day. Just laugh at yourself, cry over the blade cost, throw another one in and move on. That's the game. I GAR-UN-TEE it will be a while before you do it again. That's how we humans learn, and some of us learn and remember better than others. I am not saying which is which, because I don't know. :D ;D  Some guys learn fast, some guys learn slow. I am in the middle, I think, I am what you could call halfast. ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

..........  We typically don't remind anybody about their mistakes until they occur 7 or 8 times.

We don't?! I didn't get that memo. Neither did the guys that keep 'mentioning' my alleged 'shortcomings'.  :D

[WV Sawmiller]

   When I first started milling I had 2 turned inside out, reported them to WM, I sent them back and they sent me 2 replacements. They never thought to ask me or suggest I try turning them inside out. I finally figured it out later what had happened.

[fluidpowerpro]

The first time I realized a blade could be inside out, I did notice it before I tried cutting, but for a brief instant I thought " what the he#$, they sent me a bad blade".

[Old Greenhorn]

  When I first started milling I had 2 turned inside out, reported them to WM, I sent them back and they sent me 2 replacements. .......

Now THAT is downright bizarre right there. Funny too! :D

[LeeB]

When I first started milling I had an old LTGA sharpener and single tooth setter. You had to flip the blade inside out to set one side and right side out to set the other, Needless to say. I  forgot to turn  the blade right side out more than once. After a while you just learn to look for the right tooth direction. I  actually still have that sharpener and setter but don't use them any more. Stole the push motor off of it and used it on the mill to replace a burnt out adjustable guide motor.

[barbender]

Haha Lee thankfully Woodmizer does have a lot of commonality with their electric motors.

I've made smoke with a backwards blade before. There's no shame in it😂

You don't have to think less of a blade manufacturer if they send you blades that the teeth are pointing the wrong direction. Some mills cut to the left (Woodmizer does) others cut to the right. I have one local supplier I'll buy from now and again, I have to flip all of those blades.

[terrifictimbersllc]

  When I first started milling I had 2 turned inside out, reported them to WM, I sent them back and they sent me 2 replacements. They never thought to ask me or suggest I try turning them inside out. I finally figured it out later what had happened.

Wish I had a transcript of that customer service call

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

I have had a blade on backwards more than once :. It happens. I appreciate this thread as I am sawing Saturday and will be conscious of it in front of my customer! Last week I hit the clamp.....again. I've been sawing since 2010 and still have stuff happen from time to time. Smile and saw on my friend

[maineshops]

Be sure to laugh at yourself. When I ran the machine shop I would have an apprentice learn to weld blades. While "inspecting" the weld I would invert  the bleed and tell them they welded it backwards. Small blades so easy to flip them. Tell them to cut and get it rite. Repeat.

While on the subject does any of you folks silver solder your blades? I've tried it with little success but my eyes are getting bad so it might just be me. Dan

[WV Sawmiller]

TT,

   It was a very straight forward call. I told the customer service guy at WM I got 2 bands in the box that would not cut and he said just include them in the next box of resharps I sent back and they would replace them which they did. (For all I know they might have just flipped them back right side out and returned them.)

   I don't know why he never thought to ask about turning them inside out. Maybe he was new at the job and a more experienced rep would have known to ask. To their credit there was no dispute or embarrassment and they were totally ready to make it right no matter what it took. ;)

[SawyerTed]

..........  We typically don't remind anybody about their mistakes until they occur 7 or 8 times.

We don't?! I didn't get that memo. Neither did the guys that keep 'mentioning' my alleged 'shortcomings'.  :D

You might not be "typical."   :D

[terrifictimbersllc]

So wv, Let me get this clear.You had them on the sawmill inside out, Thought the teeth were manufactured backwards and found out they didn't work?

[GAB]

TT,

  It was a very straight forward call. I told the customer service guy at WM I got 2 bands in the box that would not cut and he said just include them in the next box of resharps I sent back and they would replace them which they did. (For all I know they might have just flipped them back right side out and returned them.)

  I don't know why he never thought to ask about turning them inside out. Maybe he was new at the job and a more experienced rep would have known to ask. To their credit there was no dispute or embarrassment and they were totally ready to make it right no matter what it took. ;)

You were very lucky that the rep was kind to you by not bruising your ego too badly.
GAB

[GAB]

..........  We typically don't remind anybody about their mistakes until they occur 7 or 8 times.

We don't?! I didn't get that memo. Neither did the guys that keep 'mentioning' my alleged 'shortcomings'.  :D

OG:
Don't feel bad, I didn't get the memo either.
GAB

[Ljohnsaw]

Running them backwards burnishes the tips like running a straight razor over a leather strop.  Now they are really sharp! ;)

[WV Sawmiller]

TT,

   Yes I had them on the mill and never paid attention to the direction the band was traveling and never thought about the fact you could invert them.

GAB,

   He would not have hurt my feelings one bit by asking. I am pretty thick skinned and except for people insulting my ATV driving and not knowing Rosa is Ponderosa pine (Which don't grow here and I have never sawed) I am pretty tolerant of others asking me things that should be obvious. ;)

[John S]

A WM representative told us that he did it once at a demonstration.  As soon as he saw some smoke he knew what was wrong.  He calmly stopped the engine, backed out, removed and then inverted the blade.  He reinstalled it and continued the demonstration as if all was normal.  I check every time I put on a fresh blade.

[Crossroads]

When I was chasing landing under a 100' Berger tower, there was 2 of us and we played tricks on each other no and then. My favorite was to pull the chain off his saw and put it back on backwards when he wasn't paying attention. The first time, it took him a while to figure it out. 

[SawyerTed]

I had a pile of logs that a buddy wanted to cut for firewood.  He needed a chain sharpened so we used my sharpener.  He put the chain on and started cutting.  After about 30-45 seconds he shut it down and said his chain was worse than when he brought it and something to the effect that I didn't know what I was doing. 

I looked at the chain and suggested that we either sharpened it backwards OR he had the chain on backwards. That set him into a cussing and spitting fit!  After a a good 2 minutes of words I didn't know went together and a subsequent apology, he changed the chain around.  :D :D :D

[Magicman]

It would be quite easy to decide to flip the bar after installing the chain.  Nope....  

[Deese]

I remember the first time daddy watched me saw lumber on the LT40. I had it set up in my Granddaddy's yard that particular day. I was changing the blade when he pulled up in his old GMC pickup truck, parked, and I swear I could feel his eyes fixed on me. Man, I wanted to impress him, show him what a real sawmill man can do  :D. I fired the mill back up and let'er RIP!  Smoke started pouring out everywhere, drive belt screaming, and then I realized my error.
I killed the engine and he hollered "what was that!?" I yelled back that I put the blade on backwards. 
He shook his head and drove off.  smiley_clapping

[moodnacreek]

When I was a kid I put a hack saw blade in backwards once. That's how you learn.

[aigheadish]

I've never run a mill but I have put my chain on backwards before...

My mind is having trouble picturing what you guys mean by backwards or inside out.

Are you saying the blade is on upside down? Like the tooth pitch makes a difference or there is a 7 shape to the teeth and it'll only cut when the 7 shape is oriented properly? Like if the 7 was moving down it will cut because of the angled part on the bottom of the 7 but won't cut if the 7 was moving up because of the flat spot? And, maybe it's backwards from how I have it and the flat part of the 7 does the cutting?

I don't know if that question makes sense... I can only compare, in my mind, with a bandsaw blade or chainsaw chain.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Hold the blade in hand with the teeth facing forward and your thumb on the back. Push up with your thumb and twist and the blade will invert itself. The back of the blade will now be facing away and the teeth will be facing you. You can still put the band on with the back facing the rollers and the teeth pointing forward but the direction of the teeth are 180 degrees away from what they need to be to cut.

[Southside]

One of the Chinese knock off saws has the chain on backwards in their advertising photos. Probably don't notice a performance difference.  :D

[WV Sawmiller]

   Either that or the blade turns backwards (throwing the chips into your face). :D

[sealark37]

More than a few chainsaws from big box stores came to our service counter for 
"a chain that will cut oak".  We solved with a short demo, and sharpening.  Not unusual for the customer to be angry at us.  

[dustyhat]

The most fun ,is to flip the saw chain inside out . you can really mess with the new guys. not saying i ever did this. :D  I use to do it at the saw shop while nobody was looking ,and put them back in the box ,i know it was mean.

[Cornerstone]

I'm still one who has never done such a thing. Yet. It probably helps that I'm only on my second blade ever. ;D

[Satamax]

I've never run a mill but I have put my chain on backwards before...

My mind is having trouble picturing what you guys mean by backwards or inside out.

Are you saying the blade is on upside down? Like the tooth pitch makes a difference or there is a 7 shape to the teeth and it'll only cut when the 7 shape is oriented properly? Like if the 7 was moving down it will cut because of the angled part on the bottom of the 7 but won't cut if the 7 was moving up because of the flat spot? And, maybe it's backwards from how I have it and the flat part of the 7 does the cutting?

I don't know if that question makes sense... I can only compare, in my mind, with a bandsaw blade or chainsaw chain.

How to flip the band saw blade - NEVA - www.neva.cz - YouTube

[Old Greenhorn]

I've never run a mill but I have put my chain on backwards before...

In the Game of Logging competitions, they start by handing each competitor a dull chain to fir their saw. They have to sharpen, install and tension it to use in the timed cutting events. My friend who is usually chief judge sometimes knows a competitor who is a bit of an experienced smart aleck. The chains get hand out in a ball and each cutter must untangle it. For the smart aleck he might get handed a chain that has been flipped inside out before balling up. It's good sport to see if the guy can figure it out and fix it, or if he gets dumbfounded. :D
 Chains going inside out doesn't happen much, blades being flipped happens a lot. Hopefully the OP has now gotten the point that almost all of us have had our 'issues' with this.

[KenMac]

When I was a kid I put a hack saw blade in backwards once. That's how you learn.

I put hacksaw blades in "backwards" all of the time. They cut better on the pull stroke in my opinion. An older friend got me started doing that.

I have never put one in with the teeth pointing towards the frame of the saw if that was the reference.

[beenthere]

Now that would be very awkward. Teeth cut on the forward or push stroke (for me).

[moodnacreek]

When I was a kid I put a hack saw blade in backwards once. That's how you learn.

I put hacksaw blades in "backwards" all of the time. They cut better on the pull stroke in my opinion. An older friend got me started doing that.

I have never put one in with the teeth pointing towards the frame of the saw if that was the reference.

I would assume most use a hack saw on the push stroke. Growing up with grandfathers shed full of tools I forget how everything is now. You can't put a saws all blade in wrong. Anyhow when a saw won't cut, look at the teeth.

[DennisK]

You can't put a saws all blade in wrong.

Been doing that in my Sawzall for fpr 35 plus years, when cutting cutting vertical from overhead.

[moodnacreek]

You can't put a saws all blade in wrong.

Been doing that in my Sawzall for fpr 35 plus years, when cutting cutting vertical from overhead.

[moodnacreek]

You do that on purpose and it cuts. There are times when a simple hack saw blade needs to cut on the pull stroke. Do you grind a new notch when you break the tang off? There are always exceptions.

[SawyerTed]

 

[KenMac]

Now that would be very awkward. Teeth cut on the forward or push stroke (for me).

I thought the same thing until I tried it. It works well for me. Kinda like the Japanese style hand saws are becoming much more prevalent in woodworking circles nowadays and they all cut on the pull stroke.

[Old Greenhorn]

I have met more than a couple of fine wood workers who flip their handsaws around and pull them by the blade for careful cuts. They say it gives them finer control. I've done it once or twice.

[rusticretreater]

The Japanese saws have a different tooth profile of course.  I use one to separate turnings on the lathe.  It is a better, smoother cut but not great for all wood types.