quarter saw or flat saw

[2firs]

Good evening,
Well I finally was able to find the time to get my new to me 8" WPF set up. Spent the last few days getting to know the mill and cutting boards out of logs I had. I have achieved the vertical criss cross blade pattern the manual calls for but have not been fully successful achieving that criss cross pattern on the horizontal plane. Saying that I am not feeling any resistance when I am cutting and the boards have been dimensionally good. I am sure there is room for lots of improvement but I am happy with the way the mill is cutting and operating.
 
What I am having troubles with is deciding whether I should be trying to quarter saw my logs or flat saw them? The trees I have are Red Cedar (average 25-27"at the butt) and Douglass Fir (22-24"). I am hoping to sell some lumber and I'll also be using some for my own projects. The trees are second growth and straight.

When do you quarter saw?
When is it advantagous to flat saw?

I have some Fir a friend wants me to cut and I have to decide how I am going to tackle them. The Fir are in that 24" diameter range.

Thanks for your time,
Henry

[Walnut Beast]

Welcome. I'm sure Ianab will have some good advice for you

[Ianab]

Welcome. I'm sure Ianab will have some good advice for you

Put me on the spot    :-[ :D

When do you quarter saw?

Personally, either Really good logs, where you can get clear vertical grain grain boards that are worth a premium, because they look really good. OR, woods you know are going to misbehave as they dry. Quarter sawed boards generally don't cup or bow, they may crook to the side a bit, but they can be ripped straight again after drying. Many hardwoods fall in that category, as well as the appearance premium of woods like White Oak. So there are times when Q-sawing makes sense. 

When is it advantagous to flat saw?

With a band mill, flat sawing is easier, so unless they get a premium for Q-sawed, they don't do it. But with a swing blade it's a wash as far as sawing speed goes. One advantage of flat sawing is the way knots present in the boards. Generally you get the best (clear) boards from the outside of the log, then get into more knots as you near the centre. So if you are flat sawing you get a decent % of clear boards, then a % of lower grade ones with knots around the core. But the knots are in the face of the board. So a 1" knot in the 8" wide board is OK. If you quarter sawed the same boards that 1" knot would be a spike across the face of the board (spike knot), and it would probably snap in 1/2 at that point.  Conversely, you may find you get NO clear boards when quarter sawing as the inner edge of the boards is getting into the knotty area of the log. Now you have ALL lower grade boards, and are losing value. 
With the logs you have, I'd tend to flat saw to get the best clear boards, then saw the lower grade part of the log into 2x for rough building lumber. But remember you can change plan part way though a log depending on what you find in there. You aren't stuck with the original plan you had when you first opened up the log. 

[2firs]

Thanks Ian!  well explained, even I can understand your description. Thanks.

Do you stack your boards in diffrent piles according to your diffrent grades?
Is most of your cutting done with the vertical angle or your horizontal angle? Do you take most of your deeper cuts with the vertical or horizontal?
When your by yourself milling, do you start with your vertical first? I would think this would make it easier for tailing your boards 

If I understand it correctly, when your flat sawing you would level the top of your log and the horizontal blade angle would do most of the wider cutting. Along the sides of your board the vertical blade angle would do the wider cutting. Exact opposite of quarter sawing.

Lots to learn. 

[moodnacreek]

If you are sawing with one of those 'skill saw on a track' frames you will have plenty of quarter and rift lumber whether you want it or not.

[Ianab]

If you are sawing with one of those 'skill saw on a track' frames you will have plenty of quarter and rift lumber whether you want it or not.

You get some rift sawed lumber either way you go. But you can saw for mostly flat or mostly quarter, by changing from cutting say a 1x8 to a 8x1 as you go through the log. The "corners" are going to be rift to some extent of course. 

Do you stack your boards in diffrent piles according to your diffrent grades?

Generally no, because I'm cutting for myself. I might sort and kinda grade the boards as I take the drying stack apart at my leisure later, and put aside particular boards for specific uses or to sell. A commercial operation usually grades as the wood comes off the saw of course, as different boards go into different streams. But personally when I'm sawing it all gets stacked up together and sorted out later. 

Is most of your cutting done with the vertical angle or your horizontal angle?

Probably more 50/50 as whichever cutting pattern you use, 1/2 the boards are in the other dimensions (1x8 vs 8x1 etc). Cutting full depth seems easier on the vertical though. It's sometimes quicker to make deep horizontal cuts in 2 passes of 1/2 the depth. My mill is only a 6" cut, but also only 13hp. It can make a 6" cut, but it's generally faster to make 2 x 3" cuts. Your mill should power through a 6" cut, but you may find the same thing applies for a full depth. Vertical cuts seem easier (and less practical to take in 2 bites), so you can just ease the saw through those. 

When your by yourself milling, do you start with your vertical first? I would think this would make it easier for tailing your boards 

Yes, that does make things easier / quicker. When you finish the 2nd cut and release the board you are standing beside it. Makes it easier to off load with minimal steps, then reset the saw for the next pass. Of course it's even better to have a good helper to rush in and grab each board. 
Had a hard time on the last sawing job though. It was a big cypress log in a backyard, and was laying uphill. No practical way to move it either. Had to mill uphill, and the saw head would only stay put at the bottom end stops.  :  Just had to deal with it. Log was worth the effort to salvage though. 

If I understand it correctly, when your flat sawing you would level the top of your log and the horizontal blade angle would do most of the wider cutting. Along the sides of your board the vertical blade angle would do the wider cutting. Exact opposite of quarter sawing.

Basically, yes. As mentioned, you get some rift sawed boards no matter which way you go. But for most things you would use WRC of Fir for, that's not a problem. 

[dgdrls]

https://petersonsawmills.com/resources/operating-a-peterson-sawmill/efficient-sawmilling-tips/

Hi Henry,  Peterson makes a dandy swingmill
and they are a sponsor here on the FF,

As Ian said you can change your plan easily as you saw
and as the log opens your eye and experience will guide you
based on what you want .

D

[2firs]

"skill saw on tracks".... :D

Thanks again for your time Ian. I can tell by your responses that you have put a lot of time into pushing your mill up/down your tracks! Your presentation is easy for me to understand, greatly appreciated.

I'll give my freinds Fir a go after my annual Deer hunt and we'll see how it goes. I have to improve on my lowering/raising blade adjustment so I can be consistent. I'm excited about the mill and looking forward to improving and getting to the point where I can break down a log efficiently and effectivley.
Will keep you posted on my progress.

I agree DG, Peterson makes a dandy swingmill!!

Henry.