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Author Topic: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.  (Read 1323 times)

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Online LeeB

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Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« on: September 04, 2023, 09:22:36 PM »
My two plane clamp has started rising about an inch after lowering it. Frustrating to say the least. It will lift the cant if I don't wait for it to stop and I can't use it to pull down any slight bow in a cant. Anyone ever have this issue before?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2023, 09:34:33 PM »
Sounds like you have air in there somewhere Lee.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2023, 09:50:50 PM »
Yes Lee I have and it's not air in the system.  Get the kit and rebuild the hydraulic cylinder.  (I looked for the pictures where I rebuilt mine but so far have not found the link.  I'll keep looking.)

Bleed the cylinder both ways before you start the rebuild or you will get drenched with fluid.

Anyway, put the cylinder in a vice and turn the top ccw.  There is a square ring inside that will exit through the slotted hole toward the top.  You may have to take a screwdriver and sorta help the end of the ring to exit.  After the ring comes out the end plug/gland, will come out of the cylinder, and then the piston.

The rebuild kit will have everything that you need including a new ring.  There is a topic here where someone else rebuilt theirs last year with some good pictures.

LINK

I have rebuilt mine twice.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2023, 06:31:06 AM »
Put a seal kit in it and you'll be good to go.
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2023, 08:46:09 AM »
Lee, your mill and mine are the same age.  At various times, I have rebuilt every cylinder on my mill.  The claw started raising up on the "sand box" job.  I took the cylinder off and carried it to a shop who rebuilt it and I only lost about 3 hours. LINK. The side supports started raising up and with some help here on the FF, I rebuilt that cylinder myself.  LINK.
My log clamp started gradually releasing and I had it rebuilt.  On a Cypress road trip, my loader arms started gradually raising.  This was not a problem while I was sawing but when I folded up and headed home the loader feet started letting down. LINK.  And finally while Luke and I were sawing in 2020, a toe board started raising.  I could have removed the mounting bolts and let it swing but I needed the toe boards so we removed both of them and carried them to the shop that afternoon.  LINK  We were back sawing the next morning.

Yup, every cylinder has been rebuilt and the log clamp twice.  That cylinder is stressed when a cant falls on it while it is partially raised so it does take a beating.
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Offline DanielW

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2023, 12:19:46 PM »
I agree with the cyl. rebuild others have suggested - I saw it on a friend's father's WM. Maybe try bleeding first just in case air is in there causing havoc, but most likely the piston seals: It doesn't show itself when dropping the clamps most of the way, because it doesn't take any substantial pressure to lower. Once it bottoms out, however, that half-second or so of pressure still applied to the rod (retract) port bleeds past the leaking piston seals, ultimately resulting in both sides being pressurized (depending on valve spool shift times, orifice sizes etc.). Because there's more surface area on the bottom end due to the rod being on the top, you're effectively creating a 'regen' cylinder cycle: Applying the same pressure to both sides of the piston will result in the cylinder extending due to more surface area on the lower (extend) side.

I can't remember exactly what style of clamp is on the LT40 - never really paid too much attention so I could be misremembering. If I remember right - some models WM have misalignment couplings to prevent side-loading of the cylinders, and others have the cylinder rod capture the clamp with a groove cut in the rod end, with lots of clearance so they don't get side-loaded. Whatever the case, there will definitely be some mechanism to make sure those cylinders aren't side-loaded. You'll want to make sure it's functioning correctly or you'll burn through seals fast (and possibly bend a rod).

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2023, 12:37:23 PM »
Just as information, the hydraulic system does not need to be bled after a cylinder is rebuilt or for any other reason.  It will very quickly bleed itself.

I don't know how, I just know that it does.  I was told by Wood-Mizer tech support not to be concerned about bleeding when I rebuilt the clamp cylinder the first time which was many years and cylinders ago.  I have also replaced hoses without bleeding.
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2023, 01:15:37 PM »
Looks like the seal kit is about $26 plus shipping. Ill get one ordered. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2023, 08:44:06 PM »
Seal kit came this evening but I don't don't see a new wire in it.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Southside

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    • White Oak Meadows
Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2023, 09:58:08 PM »
I have reused those retaining wires many times when rebuilding that style of cylinder.  It should be fine. 
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2023, 10:04:04 PM »
It is actually square with a 90 bend on one end.  The bend is captured in the gland and forces the "wire" to rotate inside of the cylinder as the gland is turned.

I never found it but someone on here had one that the bend was broken off and he had a struggle to get the wire to move.  He finally was able to snag the end and get it out. 

Mine always came with a new wire.  Hopefully your old one will be reusable.
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2023, 09:58:11 AM »
I guess if you order the right seal kit you probably get the wire. I ordered the seal kit for the cylinder.  >:(
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2023, 11:38:26 AM »
The in/out clamping cylinder I suppose.  Not the clamp up/down.  ??
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2023, 01:38:30 PM »
Correct. The in and out ( horizontal) when I needed the kit for the clamping ( vertical) one. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2023, 01:48:09 PM »
While you are down, rebuild them both since they are the same age anyway.  Heck, you already have the kit.  My in/out started gradually releasing it's grip while I was sawing a job so I had to have it rebuilt at a shop so that I could resume sawing the next day.
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It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Online LeeB

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2023, 05:27:44 PM »
Good idea. The in out does seem a little weak sometimes. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2023, 11:25:28 PM »
I have not ordered the kit. I'm having a serious problem with $42 shipping on a $26 seal kit hat would fit in an envelope.  :o
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2023, 07:49:33 AM »
I agree, that it too high even for an overnight shipment.  ??

I would talk with the desk tech.  They often can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2023, 02:51:57 PM »
Finally got around to rebuilding the piston today. It was easy after i finally figured out how to get the wire out. The old one was round and not square like the new one. It also had the bend on the end 90 deg out from the old one so I reused the old one. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline barbender

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Re: Two plane clamp rising after being lowered.
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2023, 04:28:36 PM »
I don't know why hydraulic systems bleed themselves, but they do. Not like brakes. Maybe @fluidpowerpro could explain how it works?
Too many irons in the fire


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