Question for the experienced millers

Ax- man · April 25, 2011, 10:50:19 PM

Hello again,

First, I would like to say that I can see how some of you guys get addictted to this milling. I got my first taste of milling with my new Alaskan CSM. There is a definate learning curve with this tool. The cutting or milling is the easy part but getting things set-up right with slabbing rails was a different experience to say the least. There is no subsitute for hands on no matter how much reading and research you do.

I just have a few questions.

CSMing is hard on a saw that is a given. Right now I am running Sthil synthetic 50 :1. Would 40:1 be better for the saw for this type of work considering how hard the saw working???

First question- Does the thickness of the cut make a difference in how fast the saw cuts ?? I myself wouldn't think it would make difference but I am just curious.

Second question- Is the center of the log just a little harder to cut than the smaller outside cuts?? I am not running ripping chain just regular Sthil RM 3/8 .050 sharpened at 30 degrees. The first cut with the rails went pretty good considering I hit a nail of all things when I was cutting the log to length. I hit another nail on the first cut with the rails about a foot for the end and that did the saw in. Beginners luck I guess.

I resharpened the saw and the second cut made me grin from ear to ear. I was surprized how fast it went cutting a 2 inch slab. On the third cut cutting a 3 inch slab and more in the center of the log I noticed the saw wasn't cutting quite as fast. Is it the type of cut or is the saw dulling down that quick? The log was an American Elm about 24 to 26 inch dia. X 4 ft. long that was cut back in September last year. It wasn't a dead tree either but nice and alive and is still pretty fresh with plenty of moisture.

I have cut a lot of wood as I am in the tree biz and done my share of ripping logs freehand but never on my best day could I do as good at making slabs for benches as I can with this tool . I am glad I got the Alaskan CSM instead of trying to follow chalk lines with a chainsaw. I am one step further along to see I can make a few bucks selling tree furniture. The bench I am working on looks really nice with these milled slabs for the seat and for the backrest.

Bill Gaiche · April 25, 2011, 11:04:20 PM

Ax- man, welcome aboard. You will get a lot of info from the FF. Dont know anything about a c-mill. Good luck, bg

terrifictimbersllc · April 26, 2011, 02:38:04 AM

Chain a little duller or wood a little harder, or you a little tireder, will seem slower. :

weisyboy · April 26, 2011, 06:00:43 AM

the wider the cut the more wood your cutting so the slower it will go.

the thinner the kerf of the saw the faster it will go, i had a 3/8 low profile on my 034 for slabbing for a wile was so nice to use. then i found the joy of a cerc saw again.

i run 25:1 always i dont care what the bottle says, a litle extra oil isnt gunna do any harm.

you might want to also turn your oiler right up to full

smwwoody · April 26, 2011, 09:53:48 PM

Weisyboy,

A little extra oil can do a lot of harm. too much oil in the gas and it will lean out your air fuel mixture and melt a piston.

Woody

Brucer · April 27, 2011, 12:12:56 AM

When I was chainsaw milling I used the standard 50:1 mix but I set the highspeed jet just a tad richer than normal. It's less efficient but it keeps the saw cooler.

weisyboy · April 27, 2011, 02:51:52 AM

Quote from: smwwoody on April 26, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Weisyboy,

A little extra oil can do a lot of harm. too much oil in the gas and it will lean out your air fuel mixture and melt a piston.

Woody

if your saws running lean you adjust it so its not.

anyone who uses chainsaws more thna once or twice should be adjusting there carby from time to time, to keep the saw rinning nice.

smwwoody · April 27, 2011, 07:30:05 AM

Weisey
To start with 13 years of professional felling I think I have run a saw more than once or twice. Adding that extra oil is a way to make sure that saw can not run at its peek. I can show you saws that I have ran at 50:1 every day for over a year steady that still look like new inside

Woody

weisyboy · April 27, 2011, 07:38:48 AM

50:1 oil has only been avalable in aus for a few years, i have 3 saws that my father ran they have run on 25:1 for 20 years of heavy use. i have 2 old canadian saws that are over 40 years old.

we have been runin saws on 25: 1 since tehy came out with 2 stroke saws, i dont care what they print on the bottles. not for saws that get heavy use.

but each to his own mate.

MartyParsons · April 27, 2011, 07:48:36 AM

Two Stroke engines get their cooling from the gasoline, lubrication comes from the oil. If the manufacture calls for 50:1 ratio then that is what you should run it. If you change the ratio to 40:1 mixture you are lowering the cooling by 10%. When you put more oil in the gas you run the risk of melting the piston.
Marty

weisyboy · April 27, 2011, 07:57:11 AM

we have always been told to run our saws on 25:1 ratio that is what the manuals always said, only in the last 2-3 years has the stihl branded oil been available the bottle say 50:1.

the stihl saws we get in aus have diferent carbys to what you run.

im not here to argue nor am i gunna tell someone what to do, im simply stating what i and every other timber cutter in australia dose and has done forever.

regards
Carl

smwwoody · April 27, 2011, 08:36:33 AM

If the manual says 25:1 by all means run it at that. But when they say 50:1 run it there. Change is not always a bad thing

Meadows Miller · April 28, 2011, 07:46:14 AM

Gday

Ax I ran a Csm with 70 cc and a 3120 for about 3 years and dont mind them for a starter or low use mill they are about as finnicky as a band to operate as far as maint goes and its better to touch it up before it needs it ;) its not much fun when you have to back a saw out of a cut to sharpen the saw >:( :D you wil get a feel for it Mate ;) otherwize they they can be pretty productive in the rite hands avverage day for me sawing 2x D/fir was 5 to 600 bft on ours and you have to remember I was 13 yo at the time too ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)

On the fuel mix Im 25:1 too ;) Its different with how you have to run saws down here just due to the severe operating conditions ;) and I have had afew Mates who have brought new saws and run mix at what the manual says and their saws are always at the bloody shop ;)

Regards Chris

medic · April 28, 2011, 08:55:21 AM

Ax
I ran a CSM for awhile before I got my band mill. A couple things I found that helped.
#1. I sharpened the chains at 0-10 degrees.
#2. Start with a razor sharp chain, when it goes down to just 'sharp' swap chains or resharpen. As you mentioned ripping is much harder on the saw than cross cutting so I try to give the saw every advantage I can. The time you lose making the swap or resharpening is more than made up for by the speed that the fresh chain will cut.

In any kind of mill typically the more power you have the faster and easier it cuts. In a CSM though you have to decide if the weight of a larger saw is worth the extra speed for whatever you're cutting.
Good luck
scott

spencerhenry · April 28, 2011, 09:13:29 PM

too much oil in gas also gums things up and tends to build carbon on the top of the piston and combustion chamber. when the chunks of carbon come off, they can get in between the piston and the jug and score the jug. 50:1 stihl oil is made to run at 50:1, some oils say 32, or 40:1, but that is not stihl oil.
i live and cut at altitude, i have to lean out my saw sometimes as much as a quarter turn to get the rpm's back. i figure the saw needs a certain amount of oil for top rpm regardless of how much gas it takes to get there. so i mix my gas a around 45:1 or so depending on the elevation i am going to be running at. sometimes i am cutting at over 11,000ft sometimes i am cutting at home at 8400' and sometimes in town at 5000ft. sometimes during one day i will work my way high enough to have to adjust the carb as i climb. i also switched over to the HP ultra oil, at 50:1 the saw looks pretty clean inside.

tyb525 · April 29, 2011, 12:03:12 AM

Oil cools as well as gas, the myth that more oil is bad for a saw is just that, a myth. It has been debated here time and again, and there will always be people that believe it is technically better to run no oil in your mix than too much oil :

spencerhenry · April 30, 2011, 09:35:21 AM

no one is remotely suggesting to run no oil. but to say that it is a myth that there is no problem with high mix rates is just wrong. if you want to run 1:1 go for it, but i think if you do some research and depend on your saws running at peak performance for your livelihood you will find there is a problem with running too much oil. and not just the cloud of smoke you have to breath when you are in the brush felling a big one.

Magicman · April 30, 2011, 09:53:10 AM

Saw manufacturers spend the $$$ on R&D. I will follow their recommendations.

I also accept the wisdom of adjusting for elevation as spencerhenry does. I happen to live and work at 300', so those changes never enter into my mixture requirements. It is very interesting to read about how folks in different locations adjust for their environments.

Ax- man · May 01, 2011, 05:12:29 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Interesting discussion on the amount of oil to be mixed with the gas. Those who took the time to reply made some very valid recommendations.

I have used ripping chain in the past but not for milling. I was not impressed with it for ripping big rounds to make them more manageable for the log spitter. That was a long time ago and never even heard of or seen a chainsaw mill. I have since learned that ripping chain works best for milling . I'll have to retry it in the future and see how it goes as this seems to be a recurring theme for chainsaw milling.

Larry