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Other topics for members => General Woodworking => Topic started by: Polish Hammer1 on April 14, 2021, 08:23:53 AM

Title: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: Polish Hammer1 on April 14, 2021, 08:23:53 AM
So Im building the kids a playhouse and did a cedar railing now Im putting the steps up and want to put a railing on the steps and want it to match the upper railing the steps are at a 45 anyone make a good fixture or or clamping system to keep them the same?  
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: firefighter ontheside on April 14, 2021, 11:44:35 AM
To drill a hole for something like that at a 45, I have used a paddle bit.  Start the pilot point at 90 and then switch to 45 after your drill the pilot in a bit.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: dougtrr2 on April 15, 2021, 09:14:28 AM
I think I would make a fixture to clamp onto the railing and use a forstner bit to get started.

Doug in SW IA
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 15, 2021, 09:24:36 AM
since the pilot point of a forstner will not contact the wood at a 45 angle,  you can drill a hole in a 3/4 inch scrap and then use it to center/stabilize the bit.  may want to clamp it.  we did this for a covered pseudo timber frame picnic shelter on braces.  best to drill the guide board on a drill press, then you can take your board to the project.  not sure if drilling was the question.  if you treads are uniform, you measure up at the top and bottom to bet the rail to follow the slope of the steps.  or place posts in a similar fashion, but sometimes the top is a post for the structure, and not positioned in the same spot relative to the steps on a stringer.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 15, 2021, 10:35:52 AM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/015848FB-CE30-467A-9174-C6BDF0236D92.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616867546)
 

recent railing done in a shop/mancave area.  we used timberloc screws from underneath.  for tenons, are you asking for the posts and top rail, or for balusters in the railing between a top and bottom rail.  we placed the posts in the same spot relative to the stringer, and then cut the height and the railing follow the step slope.  also 45 angle

Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: DonW on April 15, 2021, 07:54:21 PM
To drill a hole for something like that at a 45, I have used a paddle bit.  Start the pilot point at 90 and then switch to 45 after your drill the pilot in a bit.
These - I call them spoon bits but ok - once properly sharp, are very well suited, either in a brace or in t-auger form, for angled drilling ( plus so much more ). Not widely popular though, many are missing out.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: Hilltop366 on April 15, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
If no drill press to make a angled guide you could drill a 90 hole through a block then cut it off at 45 to make a 45 guide. If the guide block is the same width as the railing you could add sides to it to slip over the rail and clamp on the sides. 
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 15, 2021, 08:16:34 PM
I call them spade bits. :)
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: btulloh on April 15, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
Spoon bits are an old form and not anything like spade bits. They are very handy to use for chairs and stools since the are great at angled holes. You can adjust the angle after entry and not tear up the grain at the edge of the hole. They are prized by chair makers, especially for windsor chairs. Problem is they are hard to acquire. 
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 15, 2021, 09:15:56 PM
I was referring to the "paddle bits".
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: btulloh on April 15, 2021, 09:18:21 PM
Looks like someone has started making spoon bits now. Used to be the only way to get them was to comb the flea markets and auctions. 

Spoon bits - Gramercy tool (https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/GT-SB.XX)

Looks like lee valley has them now also. 
Lee Valley spoon bits (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/57713-lee-valley-spoon-bits)
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: DonW on April 15, 2021, 10:32:45 PM
So, my confusion, paddle bit is nothing like spoon bit. 
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 16, 2021, 07:49:50 AM
I agree.  the old style spoon bits might work.  I do not have one.  I was referring to the cheap wood bits that are flat.  they are prob. the first big bits I ever owned.  certainly it would be hard and dangerous to try and drill a 45 angle into wood free hand in a hand drill with a forstner bit.  it will take you for a ride, and run over your hand.   :o  I am still not sure what the op is doing with that joint.  there might be an easier way all together.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: Polish Hammer1 on April 16, 2021, 09:12:42 AM
So the reason I asked is because the stirs are on a 45 and the railing on the porch of the treehouse is cedar log so I wanted the railing in the steps to match going up to the porch but being so steep and having a run of I think 8feet wasnt sure how to fixture it to be the same and then do it 2x for both sides
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: doc henderson on April 16, 2021, 09:20:05 AM
have we answered you question?  if not please ask a different way.  so are you concerned about getting the angle right, or about drilling baluster into the bottom.  are you using logs. or dimensional lumber.  any chance you can submit a pic?  I am still not fully understanding the question, and therefore I think you may be getting answers to a question you are not asking. :)  if the steps are on stringers, the rail should just parallel the stringer.  for a play house, it is not mission critical, but I am sure you want it to look nice.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: Polish Hammer1 on April 16, 2021, 11:03:08 AM
Yes question answered I really reread my question n I didn’t have it worded right. still you guys got me on right track. Thanks 
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: Tom King on April 16, 2021, 07:29:11 PM
They used to call them Spoon Augers.  I guess they changed the name to "bit" so more people would have some idea what purpose it served.  Somewhere in the wilderness in South Carolina, there is a waterfall called "Spoon Auger Falls", because of the way the falls are shaped.  It got its name a Long time ago.

edited to add:  I did a Google search, and it found the falls, but they have the wrong picture on the webpage:  https://www.sctrails.net/trails/trail/spoonauger-falls

Maybe that picture is from the top.  Looking at the falls from below, it does look like a spoon auger.
Title: Re: Drilling tenons on a steep angle
Post by: DonW on April 16, 2021, 09:09:35 PM
As far as I know it it was the first means of boring a substantial hole once the knowledge of forging iron had sufficiently developed. The twist or spiral channel boring technique evolving after that.