Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[WV Sawmiller]

   We spent a week in Colorado 13-20 Sept and my wife said is the first time she has not gotten a cold or sinus issues from such a trip and says she figures wearing the mask helped and says she may wear one from now on when she flies anywhere.

[doctorb]

Crazy as this may sound, and I do not intend this as a political statement, but maybe we should consider vaccinated and non-vaccinated health care facilities. Have those health care workers who choose not to be vaxed work at a hospital together, which accepts all patients, but would be the preferred facility of those patients and health care workers who choose not to be vaxed.  The hospital workers would be able to exercise their choice and keep employment.  The patients in the vaxed hospital would feel safer, (and yes, they probably would be).  And those that are non-vaxed would be treated by like minded people and be removed from any stigma of their choice.  

Would any non-vaccinated people have strong objections to be shifted to the care of non-vaccinated health care workers?

Now this falls under the broad heading of discrimination, but by choice.  Is anything like this possible?  Just free-form spit-balling an idea here.....

[Southside]

So lets further divide our society.  Did you think that through before posting it?  How about folks who have STDs work in their own facility? Those with a limp go to only one doctor so they don't feel oppressed by "normal walkers".  Where does natural immunity fall into this?  Those folks get treatment at a FEMA camp? 

Seriously, I didn't expect you to say something like that.  

[doctorb]

Of course I see that end of it.  My intent was to have dedicated healthcare workers not lose their jobs, and have people who need all types of care continue to have access to it.  Under this current system, we have both  negatives....people out of work and people whose care is diminished because of Covid.  Obviously, this would be a temporary fix for the good of a community.  Geesh!  We are already so divided on the vax issue that I was merely proposing a potential win win.  People don't have STD's by choice.  People are vaccinated or not by choice.  There is a difference.

[21incher]

That sounds like a good idea. I definitely would rather  have a properly educated nurse with 40 years of experience following procedures that is unvaccinated than what NY is starting  to do bringing in untrained National guards and nurses from third world countries without  proper  credentials to fill the gap because they are vaccinated.  They also have closed all walk in care offices and pulled any vaccinated employees  to staff hospitals that will put a big load on emergency rooms in our area. Along with forcing more covid positive to visit er's. Meanwhile the mailman that doesn't  have to be vaccinated and followed no procedures touches everyone in the areas mailbox and mail with  the virus being  able to survive days on paper and cardboard can easily  contaminate a whole neighborhood.  There is no explanation or science for the divisive rules being implemented at this point. 

[Texas Ranger]

My daughter works for a company that places staff in hospitals, I have had an in depth discussion with her of how to handle the staffing and the virus.  It seems that the bureaucracy is so screwed up that your method would take years to be considered much less applied, and for the states to get rid of their restrictions on nurses, and for the feds to open up the green card applications from foreign nurses to allow them in with out the current years wait for vetting.

The feds have this so screwed up they should be charged under RICO for mass murder. 

[Southside]

So how is it temporary?  Until those who choose not to accept a completely unproven jab - you know the ones that even the company executives say to not give to kids - are forced to comply? 

For the good of the community we need to remove the tyrants, with extreme prejudice.  The Founding Fathers had no issue with doing so.  We have a history of doing exactly that in foreign lands at the cost of much treasure and blood.  

What are you so afraid of? You are protected, you had your jab.  I have much greater faith in my immunity.  

[Ianab]

a completely unproven jab

Nope. 

The vaccine HAS been proven safe, and mostly effective. Not 100% effective, but that's not the point. Like about 5 million doses here in NZ, and only one death that was somewhat related to the vaccine. 

The point is that if hospitals are full of Covid patients, or even worse Covid infected staff, then what about the kid up the street that needs treatment for lukemia, or the little old lady across the road that has a stroke? 

The vaccine isn't about ME, it's about putting a lid on the pandemic and letting us all get back to some sort of normal life. Take the politics out of the equation, and what's the best way back to "normal"?

[doc henderson]

the issue with kids is the same for all drugs.  no good parent signs there kids up to get some new drug with potential side effects. it always starts with adults, and in this case the most vulnerable.  I respect peoples rights to decide for themselves, especially lets say pregnant or wanting to be pregnant women.  But there is also so much misinformation spread, so it is not like people can really make a good decision.  All of the covid patients I have admitted to the hospital this evening were unvaccinated, and all the ones I diagnosed and sent home were unvaccinated.  one was 20 and 300 pounds, so now she gets man made antibody, vs a shot to make her own, since she is at risk.  It is a world wide pandemic and killing people, so there have to be some drastic measures, and make choices with the least amount of risk.  If it is too politicized, then no one will believe any information to the contrary of what they already believe and here we are.  I had a doc say at med exec meeting, let the unvaccinated, just go home and take care of themselves.  I do not believe in that.  We are fortunate that we have not got to the place we all give up and go home.  It has been considered by many.  the people loosing there jobs are prob. at that point.  and what a way to thank them after almost 2 years of risking there lives.   we are all going to get the shot, or the disease, or some combo of all the above.  I get what you are saying @doctorb .  wait till unvaccinated patients then refuse to be cared for by unvaccinated healthcare workers.  everyone is afraid, and no one knows what to believe.  God bless all.

[HemlockKing]

So how is it temporary?  Until those who choose not to accept a completely unproven jab - you know the ones that even the company executives say to not give to kids - are forced to comply?

For the good of the community we need to remove the tyrants, with extreme prejudice.  The Founding Fathers had no issue with doing so.  We have a history of doing exactly that in foreign lands at the cost of much treasure and blood.  

What are you so afraid of? You are protected, you had your jab.  I have much greater faith in my immunity.  

So how is it temporary?  Until those who choose not to accept a completely unproven jab - you know the ones that even the company executives say to not give to kids - are forced to comply?

For the good of the community we need to remove the tyrants, with extreme prejudice.  The Founding Fathers had no issue with doing so.  We have a history of doing exactly that in foreign lands at the cost of much treasure and blood.  

What are you so afraid of? You are protected, you had your jab.  I have much greater faith in my immunity.  

Governments make me laugh hard. Reminds me of climate change to, “we care, let’s be more green” , “let’s burden our citizens with carbon taxes” ……lets “recycle” by burning tons of diesel fuel to container ship all this plastic back to asia(contradicting no?)
then we got the anti logger activists that want to stop cutting down forests but in the same stroke they want millions of immigrants a year to pollute us, more trees need to be cut(for more homes)?So not so green no?
And now we got this COVID, which has turned pretty much political now and used as another wedge, I know, I agree with you, people who have their shots, what’s to worry? Go on with life and let the rest live with their decisions

I’m just rambling but just examples of why I won’t let my opinions be eroded down by propaganda/question every motive government has, it’s just a big business and that’s it.

[HemlockKing]

I knew going into the pandemic that COVID was REAL, I'm not anti vax, but i did fully expect the government to use this to benefit themselves(it's in their best interest to try to turn any situation into something that will help them) never let a good crisis go to waste comes to mind

[HemlockKing]

I know some would say “but what happens when the hospitals overload?” What about the folks who got vaccinated or people of other sicknesses need to see a doctor but can’t because unvaccinated? I don’t know the answer to that, maybe we need to pay doctors more to attract more to adjust, but we’re getting to near 80% vax rate where I live, how far can you take it? You could never hit 100%, because some people for reasons can’t take the vaccine. We had a shortage of doctors locally here pre pandemic, oddly enough we pay the highest taxes in Canada though, with very little services to show for.

I do know one thing, we have enough restrictions in today’s world. Enough is enough

[doctorb]

Interesting responses.  My "proposal" was entirely theoretical, as has been pointed out, it would take years and lots of squabbles to have something meaningful be a change for the better.  But, as a healthcare worker, I hear every day from my friends in the business how stretched they are because of Covid.  One of my good OR nurse friends told me yesterday that they really can't absorb more staffing loss, and they will lose 6-7 nurses this month because of the Covid mandate.  I know some of those nurses well.  They are excellent, experienced people who I would let take care of me.  I feel for them as well as the majority of the team will be left behind to pull the wagon with less horses.  Just trying to find a way to have all patients have access to care.

[Magicman]

My understanding is/was that the vax does not prevent an individual from contacting Covid nor prevent an infected individual, vaxed or not, from passing it on.  The vax benefit does seem to lessen the effects of the virus on a vaxed person.

If this is true then why does it matter whether health car workers or anyone else chooses to vax or not?  

Edit: I do realize that the severity of the virus in unvaxed folks seems to be causing the overload on our medical facilities and personnel.  This to me would be the only argument for the vax.  ??

[barbender]

So, a question for the two Drs.- what is the reason that you hear most often from the nurses that are refusing the vaccine? I don't intend this as a "gotcha" question, either. I know quite a few nurses but haven't had an opportunity to discuss the issue with them, so I'm honestly just curious.

[Southside]

ne of my good OR nurse friends told me yesterday that they really can't absorb more staffing loss, and they will lose 6-7 nurses this month because of the Covid mandate

These are people who have worked through this entire event, and are now suddenly considered a health risk?  Why?  Because a politician is demanding those nurses bodies financially benefit a chosen pharmaceutical corporation, while completely ignoring the science and medicine of immunity. 

You want to retain those employees?  You all walk out of the hospital together, let the weak hospital administrator who refuses to stand up to the politicians care for every patient in the facility.  At that point he or she will make a decision.  Either they will quit at which time they can be replaced with someone with an ounce of common sense, or they will tell the politician what they can do with their mandate, and actually stand behind the employees who have sacrificed throughout this.

You can remove the politics from it, or you can cover for the lost staff.  It is your choice.  

[OlJarhead]

My understanding is/was that the vax does not prevent an individual from contacting Covid nor prevent an infected individual, vaxed or not, from passing it on.  The vax benefit does seem to lessen the effects of the virus on a vaxed person.

If this is true then why does it matter whether health car workers or anyone else chooses to vax or not?  

Edit: I do realize that the severity of the virus in unvaxed folks seems to be causing the overload on our medical facilities and personnel.  This to me would be the only argument for the vax.  ??

The problem is that is what they would have you believe.  It's the new pushing the propaganda but it isn't real.
UK hospital data shocks the world: 80% of COVID deaths are among the vaccinated? COVID deaths up 3,000% after vaccine wave
There are literally hundreds of articles out there that talk about the vaccines utter failure and indeed many that talk about it being the cause of more variants and the simple logic that asks:  if the vaccine works, why fear the unvaxed?  Of course the hospitals!  People say they are full.  This has been proven false over and over and over again.
There is so much out there that isn't being reported on the main stream news that you'd never know about it if you don't go looking.  It's a virtual war out there.  A war of information -- crazies to the left of me, crazies to the right and I'm stuck in the middle with you! (see what I did there).....
and finally, as for treating patients....what this guy.....
Pulmonary Nurse of 31 Years Testifies How he Unknowingly Killed Patients by Following COVID Protocols - The Goodly Lawful Society
Note:  I had covid, I am unvaxxed, I did not need a hospital.  I got treatments that were NOT in the 'Covid Protocol' that hospitals are using (thank god) and I did just fine.  What this nurse says is what I experienced (doctors saying "go home take tylenol and if you can't breath go to emergency") but I went to doctors that are treating pneumonia the way they always have and geee wiz wally, I'm here to talk about it.

[doc henderson]

it is the politics dividing us.  Out hospital is FULL.  I admitted several covid patients and took the last covid bed.  we have another 140 beds, but no nurses to staff them.  NY (state politicians) is doing this because they are obedient Biden soldiers.  He wants the vaccine.  All the patients dx. with covid last night ( 8 ) were unvaccinated.  all of them admitted had co-morbidities.  the only places that have a high rate of admissions and death in vaccinated people are places with nearly 100% vaccinated people.  you can still get covid, if vaccinated, but less likely to die of it or be as sick, which is why I have not seen any in the ED since the 100 y/o lady a few weeks ago.  I think if you had covid and survived you are better off than with the vaccine alone.  If someone dies from the immune response to the vaccine, might they also have died from the disease that provokes an even stronger immune response.  Our area is about 50% vaccinated and have had I think 10k cases in a county of 45K.  so with immunity and dx. we are at 22.5K + 10K = 32.5K /45K so 72% immune... and we are seeing cases starting to drop off.  Now we need flu vaccine as mitigation wanes, and are seeing RSV.  still got a ways to go looking at the big pic.  I hope covid dries up so we can all talk about something else.  

[21incher]

Yesterday they admitted 20% of those 15000 illegals living under the bridge and released into US cities had covid and 100% were exposed to covid. There are approximately 1200 illegals  a day released into America with  up to 20% being infected and they are being  distributed to  every state and released into the population  without being  vaccinated.  This problem  is not being taken seriously by our leaders and will strain the healthcare system for years.  Yesterday  on the news they said drug overdose cases are now outnumbering covid cases in areas near the border and that is expected to spread  to all large cities soon. There are tons of dangerous drugs from China entering  America every day with  the open borders. The current  administration is supporting this and is responsible for overloading the healthcare system.  Bad decisions  by our leaders  that are praised by the fake news become a problem for all of us.

[doc henderson]

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this is an al natural, all medicine is bad, anti vax propaganda source.!  this is not news.

[doc henderson]

My understanding is/was that the vax does not prevent an individual from contacting Covid nor prevent an infected individual, vaxed or not, from passing it on.  The vax benefit does seem to lessen the effects of the virus on a vaxed person.

If this is true then why does it matter whether health car workers or anyone else chooses to vax or not?  

Edit: I do realize that the severity of the virus in unvaxed folks seems to be causing the overload on our medical facilities and personnel.  This to me would be the only argument for the vax.  ??

so @magic man.  if I was unvaxed, and I saw 42 patients last night.  and some of them had cancer or were immunocompromised and at high risk of death from covid... i expose them all in the name of health care, and 1 of them dies of covid they got from me... i should feel bad.  i also want to live for my family, and not bring it home to my kids and wife even though I am exposed at the highest rate by profession.  the Hippocratic oath says 'fist do no harm".  but we have to sometimes choose what we think is the lessor evil.  I have a problem with people who refuse a vaccine and also refuse to mitigate in public, and punch a Walmart greeter in the face who offers them a mask.

[doc henderson]

guys on these articles by "news" organizations you have never heard of, just keep scrolling down and look at the headings of all that they are about.  you may just think I drank the koolaid, but I am a conceptual person who has learned what I can about how the body works.  none of this makes sense.  there are bad docs, but most are not evil and only worried about money and profit ect.

[OlJarhead]

What I have always said about these alternate sources is to look for the source of their articles.

Ignoring what is posted because the site is shoddy or way out in right or left field doesn't make the gist of the article wrong.  That nurse, for example, did testify and does appear to be credible (and from my personal experience with covid, anecdotal or not, would appear to be correct).

The UK stuff is based on findings that are easily searchable, so too Isreal....and Sweden?  No increase in deaths YoY -- searchable.

So the 'news' (if we can call it that) site may be a wacka doodle site but the source of the article or the article itself may not be....and CNN?  Give me a break!  MSNBC?  CBS?  ABC?  Fox?  All corrupt.   Project Veritas has done a good job of exposing them frankly.

Covid is real, it is dangerous, the news makes it scarier than it needs to be but it is treatable.  Don't think Ivermectin works?  Do a little searching on India and the provinces that used it vs those that did not?  Check into Tokyo.  

And that nurse?  (did you watch his testimony?) He's right.  I had pneumonia 30_ years ago, they treated it much the same way it was treated this time too....I recovered both times.  Pneumonia is a killer.  Heck, even treated it can be a killer -- but treated properly it is very survivable and we are not treating it if the word 'covid' is attached to it and that is medical malpractice and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- not politics, just opinion from a survivor.

[OlJarhead]

we have another 140 beds, but no nurses to staff them.

Weird, I responded to this and it isn't there.

This is the problem -- not that the hospital is full (glass half empty?) but rather they don't have the nurses to man the beds they have.  Is that because of Covid?  Or poor policies?  Laying off nurses because they stopped elective surgeries?  Then started them again and got a covid spike at the same time?

Just saying they are full is disingenuous. Addressing why they are full is the key.

First, hospitals try to run at a high capacity for business reasons.  ICU's typically run at 85% to 90% on a normal non-flu/non-covid day/week/month as is.  So now you get an outbreak and they should, mathematically peak.....except for the most part they aren't changing much.  Maybe because they aren't doing other procedures but still, accidents, drug overdoses etc happen.

All those tempo hospitals that weren't made use of?  Come on, something is amiss.

And now we fire hospital staff who have fought through this thing for nearly two years and then complain the hospitals are full.  Pure politics.

State troopers are quitting.  Nurses and Doctors are too......70% of PHD's don't want the vax......Big Pharma's folks also have a higher than normal rate of NOT getting them......

And then we create a tiered system where the vaxxed are at the top and the unvaxxed are at the bottom?  But wait, those of us who've had it should be at the top....call me unvaxxed?  Sorry, call me 'Survivor and immune' (more likely anyway than any triple boosted vaxxer).....

If I have to be out of work because I won't vax, so beit.....watch the economy tank because politics -- that's all it is.  And big pharma money.

[21incher]

I find that newsmax has the most accurate news these days. They use actual unedited clips of the hearings and public statements of out leaders that are currently  takin place. They also show areas that the mainstream news channels are editing out to change the meaning of interviews.  I have a great honest doctor that is also a great source of information