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Author Topic: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!  (Read 3941 times)

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Offline doc henderson

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punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« on: July 13, 2020, 10:31:26 PM »
I have ordered materials.  some may have seen the old sycamore log I slabbed and the two live edge ones i mocked up for a bar top.  some edges are punky but solid.  i am planning to splint them with epoxy.  I used a product with a syringe years ago, to stabilize dry rot in my O'Day Javelin sail boat I had just out of school.  I want to fix the dry rot, and then fill the voids, and then prob. do a thick bar top pour.  any thought or ideas.



 


 

timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2020, 12:04:00 AM »
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Unclefish

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2020, 05:48:09 AM »
I have used the get rot penetrate epoxy also on some soft wood on a boat. Seemed to work pretty good. Think you have a good idea .keep the build going . Like the pattern in the wood also. Just need a stool on this side of the bar .so I can set down and order a Captain Coke...LOL

Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2020, 05:55:20 AM »
Thanks uncle fish!  stop by if you are in the neighborhood.  I think it is unique enough and for my cousin Mike, and therefore worth a little expense to make it all work.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2020, 08:23:55 AM »
I have used Smith's Penetrating epoxy sealer.  I used it on some oak barnwood that still had bark and used it to soak and penetrate the bark to keep it adhered to the wood permanently.  

http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/
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Offline tule peak timber

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2020, 08:56:07 AM »
Brad is right on with Smith's CPS. A couple of years back Smith started selling their formula direct to Jamestown Distributors (a boat supply place) and you can now purchase the undiluted penetrating formula directly from Jamestown under their own label. The advantage of doing this is that you can add up to 50% lacquer thinner or acetone to the base 2 part formula and achieve your own viscosity. Most other epoxy formulas tell you flat out that you cannot thin, but we successfully thin and wipe down all the time with mixtures up to 10%, but you have to be careful. The Smith's formulation is unique and really valuable in deep penetration as that is what it is designed to do. Smith's is a pretty small company and if you pick up the phone and call the owner he is a pretty interesting character to speak with. Below is a door that pretty much is all rot, held together with penetrating epoxy. Cheers, Rob

 
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Offline Larry

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2020, 10:02:26 AM »
Is that TotalBoat?  I've used TotalBoat and happy with it.

I know West really discourages thinning there epoxy.  Only thing they recommend is heating the wood first.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2020, 12:05:14 PM »
Yes on the TotalBoat, their in house relabel. The people at West are just sales people.........
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2020, 05:43:42 PM »
yes total boat.  Is it better to get some I can thin?  can I just spread it onto the warmed wood.  any tricks?  should I put something under it and flood it?  do I need to inject, or just let it soak?  If it was just for me I would experiment.  but now Mike has his heart (his wife) set on this top.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2020, 06:56:47 PM »
I would thin it, and soak/saturate.Also remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood. Take your time ! Sometimes we seal the bottom of the project with epoxy and wood flour as a putty the day before flooding the top.
 The thinned penetrating epoxy will go places you can't even see on it's own. Just guide it around the surface with a spatula, screed, or putty knife and keep putting the epoxy where it wants to go.We do several coats over time until sanding produces a flaw free surface, sometimes easier said than done ....
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 07:23:40 PM »
any more pics?  can I thin the total boat as well?  or will I need the special formulation.  I will research more tomorrow
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 07:35:33 PM »
I know it will eat Styrofoam, how abut plastic sheeting?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2020, 08:13:48 PM »
Polystyrene, polyethylene, ,,,,way different property's. Epoxy is supposed to be 100%solids which is why it does not shrink after reacting. The thinners  "vehicle"are the problem ,,,as well as the solution to getting the epoxy to penetrate.
  The Total Boat penetrating epoxy can be thinned up to 50% with lacquer thinner or acetone making it the viscosity of water .
  You can also hunt down Smiths CPS which is the same stuff ----thinner already added.
  Both of these products are a light amber color and not clear. Neither one dries super hard and have no UV resistance and should be top coated depending on end use. There is another thread going today about epoxy top coats.  Rob
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2020, 09:32:25 PM »
Doc , two tops we worked today with the penetrating epoxy. The shiny spots are pin holes we keep chasing and will eventually fill. These tops get sanded down to the woods surface then  orbit sanded with hardwax oil on a Scotchbrite pad. Monterey cypress.

 

 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2020, 09:37:26 PM »
thanks tule and all!
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline knowslittle

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2020, 09:44:12 PM »
Have to disagree with Tule.

Been using West Systems for about 18 years, built a Cedar strip canoe, and they had/have the very best customer service staff I have ever encountered for any product, actually calling me back (and not at my request) to see how the boat project was coming.  Most admirable in my view.
  If I remember correctly, West Systems believes that only the vehicle, {the acetone}, penetrates the rotten wood, and the epoxy proper does not.
According to them, if you heat the wood, just about 10-15 degrees above ambient temp., the viscosity of the epoxy lowers and penetrates better this way..


Disclaimer: this is from memory.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2020, 10:40:39 PM »
Here's one issue I see.  You're making a bartop.  You want a smooth surface on top.  I think what you need to do is use the penetrating epoxy to really solidify any rot in the wood.  The penetrating epoxy will not fill voids like regular epoxy.  So I think you may still want to use a regular epoxy(or bar top epoxy or whatever) AFTER you've solidified the rotten spots with the penetrating.That will give you a totally smooth surface you can sand and polish.  That way you can spill drinks on it without a problem.

Never mind, I just re-read that you said you were going to do that......
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2020, 04:22:19 AM »
Thanks Brad.  I appreciate the affirmation.  I am trying to do it right the first time.  It is the capabilities of the different epoxies I am fishing for and I have used epoxy in smaller quantities, this is the biggest project I have done.  I did not want t get done and have it weigh 400 pounds and cost a thousand dollars.  :o :)  thanks to all.  Thanks Gilda!
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2020, 04:24:17 AM »
 

 
William starting on the back side of the punky sycamore slab.  I ordered 1 gallon and this one slab took all of it.  had to order another two, at $157 each gallon.  I am committed now.  both slabs weighed 40 pounds each, which tells you how punky they are, and I will weigh again when epoxy is done. to see how much % by weight ends up being "plastic".
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2020, 09:29:35 PM »
@Resonator can you find the Dobro in the very neat and tidy workshop?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Resonator

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 10:02:07 PM »
Yes! smiley_guitarist
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2020, 07:04:36 AM »
DOc, you play dobro?! You truly are a man of many talents.
(You might wanna throw a sheet over that thing, you are gonna bee cleaning sawdust out of all the little innard parts for a long time.)
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2020, 08:20:25 AM »
that is what compressed air is for!? ;) :) :D.  It is a style of music, that some would say, there is no such thing as  a "good dobro player".  (I like bashful brother Oswald).  Maybe my wife won't let me bring it in the house.  8) It gets played along with music in the shop.  often at the early morning hours.  maybe a beer or two.  At my old job at the children's hospital, it was played at about 1 AM.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2020, 09:26:28 AM »
 It is a style of music, that some would say, there is no such thing as  a "good dobro player".  (I like bashful brother Oswald).  
Sorry Doc, gotta stop you right there. I don't know who Brother Oswald is, but I do know Jerry Douglas and Cindy Cashdollar. Jerry is an acquaintance and Cindy is a local friend, both are monster players over many genre's. (I also had Andy Hall (Infamous Stringdusters) buy me a beer at a bar once before I realized who he was. Yes, I bought him one too.)
 I do agree that instrument can be a 'challenge' for some folks to appreciate. I am reminded of a high end workshop I was working at with Cindy leading the talk. It was the only workshop in the whole 3 day program where instruments were not allowed. I am paraphrasing Cindy here, but she said something like "Can you imagine 30 Dobros in the same room all trying to learn the same tune or licks? Good God! I could not survive that!" :D :D
 I did get to watch Cindy and Jerry share the same stage during that weekend and it was something I will never forget. Two very different players and people but both very good at what they do. Fun folks to hang out with too.
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I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2020, 10:46:59 AM »
@Old Greenhorn I choose this one cause hit hat looks like yours.  you friends will know of him.  go to 50 seconds to start the song.




timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2020, 11:58:27 AM »
That feller has some good hands. How can anybody not like that?!
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Offline alan gage

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2020, 12:57:19 PM »
Also remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood.
 

I think this is worth repeating. I've had the same experience when thinning epoxy (multiple brands). For a day or two it has a kind of gummy plastic feel to it but after that feels and sands just like regular unthinned resin. As far as I know you can thin any epoxy but I can see why manufacturer's wouldn't recommend it as it changes the way it works and cures. Some say it might reduce strength too but that doesn't matter in an application like this.

Alan
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2020, 01:55:17 PM »
I get more stock Thursday, and we will finish the low viscosity stabilization of the wood.  I work 11 out of the next 13 days, (vacations)  so It will set for days after getting the thin on.  Will then move onto filling cracks, and flattening the slab.  should I re-flatten before or after the cracks are filled.  the slab will be more stable after the filling of cracks.  then will sand and finish with a top bar coat.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2020, 02:16:01 PM »
Also remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood.


I think this is worth repeating. I've had the same experience when thinning epoxy (multiple brands). For a day or two it has a kind of gummy plastic feel to it but after that feels and sands just like regular unthinned resin. As far as I know you can thin any epoxy but I can see why manufacturer's wouldn't recommend it as it changes the way it works and cures. Some say it might reduce strength too but that doesn't matter in an application like this.

Alan
Some epoxy's thin (dilute) better that others. Salesmen will always tell you NO ! ,,,but they are just sales people. I use about six different types of epoxy for different jobs and they all have their place. This morning alone -a phone call from Alaska, 2 customers, and a PM from a member here all relating to epoxy use. When used correctly , an awesome tool.  
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2020, 07:20:26 PM »
thanks Tule.  I was just looking at the slabs.  the slabs came from near the pith.  the heart wood has splits, and the differential density from the heart wood to punk wood has not made that better.  we are happy with the look we will get filling with an opaque black in the cracks.  do you think it is better to fill these, so the piece is solid on the mill?  I have a little twist and cupping.  It is funny that the Wagner moisture meter read 14 in the center, 3 on one edge and 0 on the other edge.  now after filling with LV epoxy, reading in the 5s on the edges.  I will have hundreds in epoxy, so I do not want to ruin it on the mill flattening it.  will it mill ok.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2020, 07:37:50 PM »
Epoxy is fine against HSS or carbide. Make darn sure that you blow out any foreign material (sand/dirt) BEFORE any epoxy is applied to your wood. Can't comment on moisture differential as we cook our woods down to 5% minus before infusion, that is 150degrees for weeks. When you go past 50 gallons a month the epoxy distributors get real friendly.... :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 PM »
I have bought on Amazon, any inside track on cheaper?  thanks for you help.  this project is worth the investment, but i do not want to ruin it.  I have 10 and 7 blades.  any thoughts?  I am thinking I will fill cracks first as at one end, some are now almost 1/2 inch wide.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2020, 08:04:07 PM »
I am sure the moisture meter was reflecting the relative density of the wood and to some degree the MC.  I think the punky wood dries faster.  No way to look up the setting for "very punky sycamore" and change it in different regions of the slab.  it is more the way the meter interprets density and converts that to a relative MC.  the limitation of the device based on tech.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2020, 09:43:58 PM »
I have bought on Amazon, any inside track on cheaper?  thanks for you help.  this project is worth the investment, but i do not want to ruin it.  I have 10 and 7 blades.  any thoughts?  I am thinking I will fill cracks first as at one end, some are now almost 1/2 inch wide.
Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc., Ultraclear epoxy, AeroMarine epoxy, best bartop epoxy, And there are various smaller distributors selling from the chemical plants as sales people. Shell Epon, CibaGeigy, and other principals. Don't discount Jamestown Distributors with their repackaging. Fibreglast carbon fiber Co, and other carbon fiber dist. (and fiberglass sales folks) all carry their own brand of repackaged epoxy in various viscosity. West, but they just are sales people not principals, but I am unable to confirm after years of their ads (Epoxyheads/ West systems). I have used these suppliers and more that I won't list who coat golf clubs, tennis rackets, bats, fishing poles, military, marine, space, aircraft, medical, secret junk ad nauseum.
  So cheapest maybe the first two. Today I used several gallons of AeroMarine 300/21 series on a 5 X42 foot walnut top spot filling while over the weekend several gallons of Smiths CPS to prep two vanities and a giant pine slab, and spot repair a bunch of walnut wall panel. I'm not much on "showing " epoxy but very bullish on it's wood stabilizing properties. Rob
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Offline alan gage

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2020, 05:44:08 PM »
Raka is very popular in the cedar strip canoe world. Relatively thin. Nice cost. Good performance. Multiple hardener choices. Haven't heard any complaints about them and I've been happy.

Alan
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2020, 08:20:43 PM »
It jumps out like a resonator guitar. 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2020, 08:49:45 PM »
Yup, epoxy is good to build guitars with as there is no moisture in it  :)

 

 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2020, 09:16:00 PM »
I would think if you made a resonator guitar out of resin, it would fail to provide resonance. ;D

Tule, what were you doing to that poor guitar?
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2020, 09:22:12 PM »
I split it in two, added a brass and walnut composite sandwich in the center that stood proud around the perimeter by 1/2 inch. Also a new pick up and some other box thing. A polished radius gave the guitar a new look.....$$$ 8)
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2020, 10:01:38 PM »
Also a new pick up and some other box thing.
I love it when you talk technical :D. I have a high end Luthier friend that would be rolling his eyes at that "some other box thing" remark. Those guys go crazy picking out just the right stuff for a particular sound and customer and playing style and the time of the year and the phase of the moon. Who makes it, what wire is it wound with, what was the humidity when it was wound, all make a big difference apparently. Who knew? :D
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2020, 10:53:30 PM »
@Old Greenhorn I choose this one cause hit hat looks like yours.  you friends will know of him.  go to 50 seconds to start the song.



Roy got nothin on the carters.  
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2020, 05:43:47 AM »

Roy got nothin on the carters.  
;D
This may be true, but they out number Roy by a fair amount and are better lookin'. :D ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2020, 08:47:59 AM »
Also a new pick up and some other box thing.
I love it when you talk technical :D. I have a high end Luthier friend that would be rolling his eyes at that "some other box thing" remark. Those guys go crazy picking out just the right stuff for a particular sound and customer and playing style and the time of the year and the phase of the moon. Who makes it, what wire is it wound with, what was the humidity when it was wound, all make a big difference apparently. Who knew? :D
This customer was cut from the same cloth. Occasionally, in the past I did work for Fender and got to see all the craziness in their big manufacturing plant in Los Angeles (Corona). The coolest thing was the thousands of guitars that hang from a moving rail system attached to the ceiling production line style. I built some drums for them also. I stay away from the exacting, VERY competitive nutcakes building musical instruments, like Fender. The cigarette burns, the drool, sweat stains....I'll stick to selling walnut sapwood :D :D :D :D :D
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2020, 05:14:20 PM »
we have some diagonal splits along the live edge.  do not want to mess that up.  I guess we will fill those carefully so it does not get all over the edge.  any other ideas?  I will add a pic later.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2020, 06:22:49 PM »
Yes, make a dryer mix of epoxy and wood flour and using a putty knife plaster all the cracks across the grain. Do not worry about being messy.
   In about half an hour wet a cloth with acetone and scrub WITH the grain the ENTIRE natural edge face- even where you did not fill -or have any cracks. This blends the entire edge and puts a little epoxy into the entire natural edge.
  Next day, spot sand gently and you will have a stable finish ready natural edge.  Rob
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2020, 06:37:20 PM »
thanks Rob.  here are a couple more pics.  I am at work, and my son held it together as I kept texting how i wanted the pics.  


 

 

 

 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2020, 06:40:19 PM »
That would be with the regular epoxy I assume?  still total boat.  I have another gallon of the low viscosity, incase I unroof some punky stuff in the flattening phase.
it is the high performance epoxy with 2:1 medium hardener.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2020, 06:46:21 PM »
I think I will pack the epoxy flour in from the back to help seal the bottom up, for the filling of the surface.  i plan to pigment with japan lamp black, and put in some turquoise stones, in the large cracks.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2020, 07:22:18 PM »
With the cracks shown in the pics I would turn the slab upright, butter, fill, dam, both sides with "mud" and the next day fill the front with liquid for a 100% fill. This is the type of work I do here ad nauseum  7 days a week, nonstop. If you use walnut flour from your sander, after sifting, colorant will not be needed.
 Another note , I only use wood flour and epoxy to make "mud"for sealing cracks on sides and bottoms-and wait the extra day to fill voids with less viscous mixes. Years of tape failure have taught me no short cuts even with production pressure.
 If that is your natural edge face , fill vertical the next day slightly lower than grade, and the day after that do the "mud"and along the grain wipe routine for a very natural looking natural edge. I can also guarantee that those splits will NEVER open again.
 Regular epoxy for the mudding and low viscosity fill mixed with wood flour for desired effect.
  I only did turquoise in one set of table tops and to me it looked like a bunch of mixed rocks that got dumped in the epoxy-I don't care for the look- even diamond cut and polished. Pretty crude even in mixed aggregate.
 Something else I came up with instead. 

 

 

 
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Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2020, 07:26:05 PM »
Yes indeed 👍👍

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2020, 08:41:36 PM »
Tule can I send my son to be your apprentice?   8) 8) 8) :D :D :D
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2020, 04:13:40 AM »
i am in the same boat. i thought about building a big vacuum chamber and using cactus juice, but i think pulling the vacuum before the juice sets up will be the challenge. so, i was thinking of other ways and was gonna start some research on low viscosity epoxy. but it seems the research is here. 
iv got 9 3" slabs of pecan, some 48" of solid heart wood, but wanting to keep the live edge with the bug holes is what a co-worker wants for his counter tops and will build several meeting/dining tables out of the larger slabs. the smaller slabs, i was thinking of coffee, end and entry tables. but all have sever punky sapwood. 

i plan to send the slabs to the local kiln, and store them in a shipping container and use part of the container as wood shop, or bring them in the house and use the living room as the epoxy shop, then back outside for sanding and router sledding. 
would storing them in a shipping container be wise, or foolish? i can kinda climate control them, but not to much, without having a huge electric bill. 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2020, 11:06:14 AM »
glad they will be kiln dried and hopefully heat treated/sterilized for your liability protection.  The epoxy is fun, but expensive so include that in any bid.  I will be resuming work on my project soon.  I will update with pics.  I have wood in a container.  it can go months and not need any attention.  as the weather cools. I follow the RH in the container.  I have a remote temp and humidity monitor in there and monitor in my shop.  it keeps the daily high and low for temp and humidity.  if it starts to creep up, I plug in and run the dehumidifier for a night or so.  during the day, the RH is often too low for the dehumidifier to make much difference.  We are having a cool spell with highs in the 60s instead of the 90s.  as anticipated the RH was up, and this dictates the EMC for the wood in there.  it has been stable at about 7%
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Offline charles mann

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2020, 03:39:27 PM »
@doc henderson

Good to know a container will work and what is rqd to make it work. 

As for being sterilized, im sure the kiln will get hot enough. I found the guy on the wm pro sawyer network. 
The guy that slabbed the logs also just installed a kiln, but a 45min drive compared to the 2hr drive to guy the sawed the logs is a no-brainer. Plus the local guy has been doing it longer and im sure has the kinks worked out. Im gonna air dry for another 6wks before taking the load to him. He has a load already in the kiln and wont be done for another 5 wks, so itll work out for timeline. 

I dabbled with epoxy a few yrs ago on some cedar and it worked out great, using just bar top epoxy from the chain box stores
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2020, 09:12:12 PM »
getting there.  add a first layer/coat of table top epoxy.  turned up the heat in the shop and will sand a bit in am and add another coat, in thin layers as instructed by @tule peak timber .  hope to install soon, for my cousin.  before Christmas.  



 

 

 

 

 

very thick stuff.  it can be nudged but did not run easily off the edge.  I had to use the orange level as I got it from a family friend for my birthday.   :)  I used all total boat for this projet.  I used low viscosity, regular and table top (thick) epoxies for this..
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2020, 09:13:52 PM »
believe it or not, I am in the middle of organizing and cleaning my shop.!   :D
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2020, 09:34:22 PM »
Doc,
From my chair your top looks pretty darn good!
I am in a bit of a quandry, on one of the tops I am doing, of whether to use the penetrating with or without a solvent for the first coat. The first coat is going to be the one that goes the deepest, has the roots so to speak, and everything else will build off it going towards the final coat. I did some destructive testing on the glue I am using for joinery, just to make sure that if I do use penetrating with a solvent, I won't screw up what I have already done. As NASA said, failure is not an option. My father also referred to NASA as "never a straight answer", but we won't get into that experience.
If you can get your coats (thin coats) to where they are pinhole free, suckout free, and totally uniform, when you sand them with a flat board, to me you are finished coating.
Check your FedEx on Tuesday or Wednesday.
:snowball: BTW, your shop looks like a mess...just sayin.
WOC
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2020, 09:48:40 PM »
Thanks so much, again WOC!  best regards DOC!  @tule peak timber
ps.  the siracha roasted pistachios seen on the table saw really help too.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2020, 10:15:44 PM »

the siracha roasted pistachios seen on the table saw really help too.
What table saw?  I see the pistachios but no table saw in any of the pictures! :D :D

The tops are looking great. 8) 8) 8)
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2020, 07:28:52 AM »
Looking good Doc! The thicker the coat, the better it holds those bubbles. I didn't see a torch laying around but I assume you do wipe the surface with a torch as needed during the first hour or two of curing? I hang a temporary tent of plastic sheet over my pieces just to keep any dust from settling in the surface.
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2020, 07:32:45 AM »
I used a heat gun yesterday.  but the is a MAPP torch there if needed. :)
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2020, 08:23:35 PM »
waiting for glue to dry.  My cousin mike and his wife Diane.  Her mom is 92 and hiding at there house for covid.  she gave two thumbs up!



 

 

Thanks again @tule peak timber for the advice and trade secrets.  I learned a ton thanks to you.  and thanks for the supplies that I was otherwise unable to get.  you are so kind.  

:christmas:
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2020, 08:41:40 PM »
Looking mighty good Doc! Nice job!
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2020, 07:36:09 AM »
Looking very fine, very fine. 
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2020, 09:38:34 AM »
Beautiful work Doc!
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline 21incher

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2020, 03:26:20 PM »
They came out beautiful.  Looks like we may have an apprentice WOC on the forum now.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, and a logrite cant hook.

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2020, 06:04:24 PM »
They came out beautiful.  Looks like we may have an apprentice WOC on the forum now.
i wish, and sorta offered!   :)   8)
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2020, 08:27:25 PM »
We will tip a glass of wine next year. Merry Christmas Doc.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2020, 12:03:29 PM »
Back to basics,  really basic. what epoxy and color flakes are best for small projects, boxes and such.  I tried one and did not like it.  Source, web site, name, etc, would be appreciated. 

Thanks, folks.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2020, 01:21:59 PM »
the automotive stuff will have a green tinge to it.  you can get stuff at hobby stores like hobby lobby, Lowes, home depot, called casting resin.  good for adding color and displaying say a penny with someone's birth year on it.  I used from the total boat system this time, to be sure it was high strength and quality.  you can add rocks, pine cone seeds, dust, shavings ect.  you can buy pigments and additives such as crushed stone.  I have done several with actual turquoise stone.  If it is decorative, the casting stuff is good, and I think @Old Greenhorn has had really good luck with it.  it is nice as it can be bought locally with out pre-planning.  I got mine on Amazon, but have to wait a few days, and more expensive.  after opening, it does not last forever, so get just over the quantity you need.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2020, 01:23:45 PM »
what did you not like?  any pics?  the additives are endless, and so it depends on your goals.  blend in or pop out!   cheap vs sky is the limit.  the casting resin is a good place to start.

Amazon.com: Art 'N Glow Clear Casting and Coating Epoxy Resin - 16 Ounce Kit: Toys & Games
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2020, 01:45:58 PM »
Doc, I followed the instructions and the epoxy never reached, or obtained a flow to fill the cavities.  I tried several times.  Don't know if the epoxy was bad, or I was.  I have ordered the stuff on your post, hopefully I can do better with the instructions.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2020, 04:40:42 PM »
you can thin it a bit with acetone according to @tule peak timber and maybe isoprople.   post a photo if that wil help.  what were you trying to fill?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2020, 07:30:53 PM »
I was tasked with building a funeral box for ashes.  I have left over wood with imperfection that I want to build into boxes for my kids.  I like the filler I have seen and want to try and do the same.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2020, 08:15:04 PM »
There is another method for punky wood, and small cracks.  For just plain punky wood I use Stick Fast Thin CA glue.  To fill small cracks and voids I use the Medium CA.  If I want to add color I use Pearl Ex Powdered Pigments from Hobby Lobby.

Another product to fill bug holes, small cracks, and etc is Starbond Medium-Thick Black CA glue.  It comes with micro tips to get into really small cracks.

The advantage to the CA glues is they set instantly when hit with accelerator.  You can fill and sand to finish in a minute.  Probably too expensive to use on large areas.

With any of the CA glues you might need to put on sanding sealer or shellac so the glue doesn't discolor the wood.  Depends on how much sanding is left to do.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2021, 09:14:29 PM »
That counter/bar top look great.  A lot of love and hard work shows. Dealing with punky wood takes patience and time.

Having read this post from front to end, and repairing old wooden boats with various epoxy brand products, I have heard that some acetone as purchased in the stores can be recycled acetone.  Recycled may be ok to wipe your tools with but since it is not pure virgin acetone, it may have some left over contaminates remaining in the can of acetone.  

When mixing recycled acetone with epoxy, sometimes those left over chemicals can cause the epoxy to misbehave and not set properly, or off color.

Being a conservative old goat and I'd rather not have to redo a project, I have always preferred to thin epoxy with Lacquer Thinner and have not experienced any problems (unless I space out and mix the ratios wrong. . .  who me?)

All of the folks posting here have valid experiences and I especially enjoyed the music video from 1964.

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Offline doc henderson

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2021, 03:08:15 AM »
welcome to the forum @Sod saw 
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2021, 09:14:50 AM »
What a nice friendly place you all have here.

Thanks for the welcome. Having quietly read for many months, I felt that I may have something to contribute on occasion, therefore my joining, however, my daughter is swifter on computers than I am.  
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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2021, 09:11:13 AM »
Update.  several of us and prob. many had noticed that the WOC @tule peak timber has been absent for a while.  He was a large component of my education for this project.  I called his number the other day, and spoke first to his wife, and then him.  He sounds great.  very busy with projects and granddaughter.  I just got a note from @Nebraska asking about him today.  so thought I would let you all know, that he and his are doing well.  Hopefully he will have time soon to update us all, and get back to sharing all he knows and experience he has.  may God bless the WOC and us all!   :)
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2021, 09:18:55 AM »
Thanks Doc, yes I had noticed his absence and am most glad to hear all is OK with him and his'n. :)
 Sometimes I am just afraid to ask, y'know? All is well!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline alan gage

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2021, 10:21:15 AM »
Update.  several of us and prob. many had noticed that the WOC @tule peak timber has been absent for a while.  He was a large component of my education for this project.  I called his number the other day, and spoke first to his wife, and then him.  He sounds great.  very busy with projects and granddaughter.  I just got a note from @Nebraska asking about him today.  so thought I would let you all know, that he and his are doing well.  Hopefully he will have time soon to update us all, and get back to sharing all he knows and experience he has.  may God bless the WOC and us all!   :)
That's great to hear. I've been wondering too.
Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2021, 09:02:29 PM »
He has been missed but is a busy guy with all his projects I am sure.   He should take care of family and business first. It is incredible the amount of knowledge/ info he shares. 

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2021, 09:07:55 PM »
I'm making stool seats out of sweet gum crotch wood.  I have several very small cracks.  Typical of what shows up in crotch wood.



I have some TotalBoat penetrating epoxy.  Can I use it straight to fill such small cracks?  If I need to cut it with acetone how much?  Any technique to force it into the crack?
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline Ianab

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2021, 09:50:09 PM »
My  experience with cracks like that (and filling nails holes / cracks in reclaimed wood) is that the epoxy will find it's way into any crack, and right through the board if you aren't careful. 

What I do is mix up a small batch, then trickle a small "bead" along the crack fully covering it, and carry on and do the same with all the pieces. Then go back over the first pour and you will see which holes it's draining into. Top those ones up. Once you have either filled the holes or your epoxy has run out / started to set, put the pieces away till tomorrow. 

Once cured you can sand off the epoxy that's above the surface and see if there are any holes remaining. There almost certainly will be, so mix up a little more and repeat. Eventually you end up with all the holes full of epoxy, and the surface sanded nice and smooth. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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Re: punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2021, 10:26:07 PM »
the low viscosity is like water so it should go in.  does the crack go all the way through.  if the other side does not matter as much, you can add saw dust to make a paste to block the exit on the backside.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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