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New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install

Started by YellowHammer, February 04, 2021, 10:43:24 PM

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YellowHammer

We finally got our new outside cyclone dust collector installed and running.  It an Oneida Industrial Series 3 phase with an airlock, with Duct Incorporated Snap Lock heavy gauge stainless steel 12 inch duct.  

It is quite a step up from our old system, which choked on the chips from 55hp planer.  This dust collector runs several machines at once, including our sawmill. 

It was a several weeks build, but went smoothly.  The airlock lets me dump right into a dumpster, no vacuum seal needed.  Here is some walnut sawdust coming out of the airlock and falling into the dumpster.






 Here is the outside routing to the sawmill through a 6 inch flex hose.


 Its pretty tall, about 14 feet or so.

 



 

I did a series of three videos on the build, from start to finish.  There were lots and lots of parts, thousands and thousands of dollars, and lots of time spent getting everything just right.

Here are the three videos, in order.  I just watched all three again, and it's amazing how much work we had to put into it. By the end of it, we were dead tired, especially since Mother Nature decided to freeze us with a never-ending cold front.  The main thing is, the stupid thing works better than expected and should last a very long time.  Episode 1 was the basic assembly of the cyclone and stand, Episode 2 is the pouring and mounting on footers and erecting the whole thing outside, and Episode 3 is the installation of the ductwork and the test run.  

Episode 1:
Episode 1 - How to Install a Professional Dust Collector - YouTube

Episode 2:
Episode 2 - How to Install a Professional Dust Collector System - YouTube

Episode 3:
Episode 3 - How to Install a Professional Dust Collector, Final Episode - YouTube
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

lazyflee

Funny, just watched your youtube video on my feed. Didn't know that was you. Great looking setup you have. Can I borrow that jointer?!!!


tacks Y

Nice setup and well done. I would guess a couple bucks. I just bought a 4" gate w/snap lock 40+dollars wanted to match the others I have and the only plastic one broke. 

YellowHammer

Yes, this system wasn't cheap.  The blast gates were the least expensive pieces. :D  Just the air lock alone was $2,800.

At one point, we had three truck deliveries in one day, and we just kept packing crates into our building until we could barely walk around.  Pallets of stuff everywhere, and we were starting to get worried about how long it would take to get back in operation once we started.  So we came up with a strategy where we didn't shut our system down until the last minute.

It was, even for us, a big job.  I'm glad it's over.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Walnut Beast

What is the exact job of the air lock. Does it meter it out when it dumps in the waste container so it doesn't blow all over ?

Old Greenhorn

Wow, that is nicely done YH! Beautiful first class job and I bet it is more of a pleasure to run your equipment now. You just have to be careful of small children and animals in the shop that they don't get sucked up. :D

 Sometimes it is very complicated to keep a system simple and clean and it came out great! Most impressive system. Just bolt it together and stick it up! All you need is some simple hand tools, right? :D :D :D :D

 Again, very nicely done, but I think you need a bigger dumpster. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Skip

Just watched Ep.3 last night , nicely done . State of the Art .  :o

boonesyard

Wow, that is a top of the line system, nicely done! I have a little size envy going on after watching the videos  :D. We're just installing our first dust collection system, a might bit smaller.


I like it all, but I particularly like the air lock. Great System.
LT50 wide
Riehl Steel Edger
iDRY Standard kiln
BMS 250/BMT 250
JD 4520 w/FEL
Cat TH255 Telehandler
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

21incher

Wow great setup.  Oneida definitely makes the best in class equipment. Never saw an airlock before. 
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

YellowHammer

There are really two kinds of dust collector systems.  The first and most common is the one where the debris and air mix and go through the impeller and into collection bins, bags or just on the ground.  The impeller is called a "trash blower" because it has been designed with loose tolerances to allow debris to pass through with no damage.  However, the efficiency is low because of the loose tolerances.

The much more efficient system uses a high tolerance blower that can't tolerate any trash and must only pass clean air.  So a cyclone or similar filter is used to clean the air before it reaches the impeller, and it must be on the suction side.  Due to this, the whole precleaner system must operate under vacuum, and this is done by using sealed drums and hose.  You've probably seen these when looking at cyclone systems.  However, these are very inconvenient to clean as the drum or catch barrel must be airtight and resealed after every cleaning.

An airlock is a specialty rotating flapper that looks like a paddle wheel.  As it rotates the flaps maintain an airtight seal, much like a revolving door in a fancy hotel or the airport.    The airlock can maintain an airtight seal while revolving, and sawdust can enter and exit into a non sealed dumpster, just like people entering and exiting from revolving door.

So it allows the best of both worlds, a high efficiency clean air blower, and the ability to dump sawdust into an open container. 

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Walnut Beast

Thanks for explaining that very well. Excellent job on the videos. The top of the line system you have looks absolutely fantastic and seems to be worth the money 

Andries

Yellowhammer, that dust collection system looks like a gem. Congratulations on a job well done!
It took me many years of blowing sawdust out of my nose to figure out that I needed to get serious about not wrecking my lungs. The virus lockdowns gave me the opening needed and I finally pulled the trigger on a system.



My son is helping me install the five drops from the main 8" duct. The woodworking equipment is all shoved over to the cyclone, so that we could assemble the pipes. The jointer and table saw make a central island in the shop, with most of the 6" drops above that. Tonight I was setting up the 5" pipe to the table saw, got tired and fed the stove it's last load of firewood, and will finish up the hookups tomorrow. It was a big job, in both time and money.
Winnipeg is at -40 degrees tonight, so this system circulates air inside the shop. Pumping 1500 cfm. of nice warm air into the frozen Prairie just isn't good design up here. Another thing that I was told to do, was to allow for bleed air. The 8" to 4" reducer on the far left hand side, at the end of the main trunk, is normally open. That air allows for a constant minimum flow of air to enable the cyclone to keep spinning sawdust out at maximum efficiency.
My system is 'amateur night' compared to yours Robert.
Thanks for taking the time to make up the videos and sharing so openly with all of us.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Dan_Shade

Does the airlock continually rotate? 

I'm not familiar with one. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Southside

Being a tighter system are you able to get the same material removal while moving less CFM of air?  Less waste air is I guess what I am asking?
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

YellowHammer

Southside, I don't know, mine is twice the hp of my other system and moves at least 4 times the air.  I went from a 6" outlet and pipe to 12".  Some of that may be the pipe, and some of that is due to the much higher efficiency of the blower.  Of course, I can close some of the blast gates to limit airflow to pretty much what I want.    

The airlock continually rotates.  It's uses a little electric 3 phase motor through a gearbox.  The paddle wheel inside the chamber rotates very slowly, maybe 1 rev per second or less (I didn't time it.)

The cyclone had to be upgraded to work with it, a staging hopper was added to its length to store temporary sawdust if the airlock couldn't keep up.  

Also, the airlock allows the attachment of a transfer blower if we wanted to add it later.

Andries, that looks like very nice system.  Whenever someone spends the money on the true dust collector pipe, then money is involved.  Especially, when in the back of the room is something with the name "Oneida" written on it.  However, like many things in life, the price is worth it.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

samandothers

@boonesyard  Is that Clearvue system?  If so what model?  

@Andries what is the HP of your blower motor?

YellowHammer that is quite the system there.  I need to use something other than a shop vacuum! :D  Someday!  

I've gotta decide whether to use an old Grizzley 2 bagger and replace the bags with filters and/or old add a cyclone.  Actually I gotta get off my butt and do something! ;D

Andries

It has a 3hp. 220v. Baldor motor on it.



What might be more important is the cfm that the system can produce. This model is rated at 1500 cfm at a distance of 10' from the inlet with the complete cyclone and filter attached.
The cyclone is completely worth it. I used a General single bag collector for years and that stinker was a dust pump.
I've got about $1000 in ducting and about $1750 in the used Oneida collector. I got off cheap on the parts because I shopped around a lot.
Also, my little one-man woodshed is served really well by this sized machine.
Yellowhammer has his LT40 and steroid loaded jointer,  moulder,  planers and straight line rip saws hooked up to his, and that system will handle it no problem.
It's a question of "designed to fit scale".

LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Walnut Beast

Oneida System like YH has only comes in three phase systems.  The next best system down from the three phase is the high vac five. Basically same system in single phase. and it has a air lock. On the specs on cfm they give you two.  Total and actual cfm.  When I had talked to a gal named Linda from there that is very knowledgeable she had said the high vac five would be able to handle the chips out of a the system fine for a four sided moulder planer ( not the size of YH 😂) but her concern was the filteration of the fine dust accumulation. Due to so much.  My takeaways from these industrial models is if you are filtering in your shop this system is hands down the best! and if you have regulations in your area and are piping it outside that it's precisely metered into a hopper without blowing dust all over outside.

samandothers

Thanks Andries for the information.  Very nice system.  I know you'll enjoy the cleaner air and less dust film on everything in the shop.  

Old Greenhorn

I hesitated to post this here, but it is on the other side of the spectrum form Yelowhammer's gorgeous system. I am just getting started in this world of wood and really had nothing for dust collecting just a week ao. I had gotten parts and stuff and was working up to it. This week I slapped in my first system. It is ugly, only 4" lines, and I reached a little on the design, but it works.
 Most of my equipment is upstairs so I ran the main lines along the ceiling and the blower and collection bag are up there also. But I didn't want to have to carry the bags of dust and chips down the stairs. SO I added a collection barrel down on the floor.
 This is the upstairs setup:


 
 You will see that the collections lines are on the ceiling as you would expect, but the line then goes down through the floor. There is a pre-collection barrel on the floor.


 

The debris comes down the line on the right and falls in the barrel, the air goes back up on the left line, through the blower and into the dust bags. Here is another view:


 
 It's cut off just before you see the barrel on the floor, but you get the idea. When I laid this all out, I could not find anyone who had tried this barrel system out to tell me if if worked. I just took a chance because carrying all that down the stairs over and over was not a pleasant thought. Take steps to save steps, right? In fact, one of the two barrel covers I have like the one in the photo was given to my by a friend. I asked him how it worked and he said "I dunno, I think it's a gimmick, but have fun trying it."
 Well I can tell you this thing works and I am pretty happy with my entry level system. As I said, I have another barrel cover and if I get to the point I am moving a lot more ships, I believe I will try daisy chaining the barrels and see how that works out. It would be pretty easy to do. I just have to but another garbage can of the correct specs. These are a big larger than the average homeowner cans, but made in the USA so I'm sure I should be able to find one.
 Anyway, that's my hokey little entry level system. It's nothing like the work of art the YH has built, but I am on the road in that direction should the work dictate a need. It's all a learning process, right? ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

boonesyard

Quote from: samandothers on February 06, 2021, 10:53:00 AM
@boonesyard  Is that Clearvue system?  If so what model?  

@Andries what is the HP of your blower motor?

YellowHammer that is quite the system there.  I need to use something other than a shop vacuum! :D  Someday!  

I've gotta decide whether to use an old Grizzley 2 bagger and replace the bags with filters and/or old add a cyclone.  Actually I gotta get off my butt and do something! ;D
Yes, it's a Clearvue Max. 5hp and 16" impeller. I looked at Oneida as well, hard. Had a few issues with the salesman when I was dealing with Oneida, but they make a great product.  Saved a few bucks going this was, but i didn't give up anything in performance.  Just got everything finished up today and and tried it a bit, it really SUCKS 🙃 
LT50 wide
Riehl Steel Edger
iDRY Standard kiln
BMS 250/BMT 250
JD 4520 w/FEL
Cat TH255 Telehandler
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

YellowHammer

You guys have some nice systems and tools.  I know what you mean about salesman at Oneida, I got tired of dealing with them, and went straight to the engineering manager.  Each salesman quoted me a different unit, different options, and different prices.  It was a clown show.  

Old greenhorn, I know what you are saying about the garbage can separator.  I bought one from somewhere online and it wouldn't fit any of my garbage cans.  So I never used it, and I just threw it away.  Just like your buddy, I thought it was a gimmick but it sounds like I missed the boat on that one.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

scsmith42

Robert, that is one sweet setup! In hindsight, I wish that I would have designed my system with an external dump and a rotary airlock.  It sure beats a direct dump.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

YellowHammer

The more we use this system, the more the pain of installation fades and the more we can appreciate the extra airflow and suction.  For example, the segmented track of our straight line rip saw, which is oil lubricated, always had sawdust stick and pack on it.  Imagine a bulldozer track that gets caked with mud.  So every week or so, we had to take time out to clean the packed sawdust off the track, which was a pain.  Now, not only does the sawdust not pack, it actually gets cleaned off.  It's never worked better.  

Same thing with our sawmill, I haven't had to clean out under it since we installed the system.  Normally I have to clean out the residual sawdust very week or two.

  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

samandothers

Thanks boonesyard.  I lean toward Clearvue  for a cyclone.  Very nice systems one and all. 

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