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Firewood prices

Started by Yosarian, March 30, 2021, 01:42:00 PM

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doc henderson

It used to be that firewood and natural gas were both about $7 per million BTUs, and electric and propane were at $14 per million BTUs.  will have to see about nan update, but seems to me the price on wood has remained constant compared to that time.  wood pellets are higher and have more processing and transportation costs.  (not the same as wood)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

mike_belben

The m2 money supply went from about 15Trillion to nearly 21trillion in the last year so thats the appropriate correction percent on consumer goods.  The closer to the financial centers of the US one is physically located,  the quicker the rise in goods has been since the residents who receive the trickle down first can afford it soonest.  Newly minted wealth is distributed via the central banks.  

I guess we can conclude that bankers and their associates dont burn much firewood.
Praise The Lord

HemlockKing

A big scam system of IOUs, what little money is real, is in your “bank” being embezzled to make big guys more money while they screw you.
And if they fail chances are the government will use your tax money to bail them out lol . Pound sand little guys (businesses)
A1

bulldozerjoe

Had 2 people call me today looking for firewood delivered..  I'm in western ny, our wood is sold by the face cord.. told them 75 a face cord delivered... good seasond ash and cherry.. 17 inch pieces.. they both responded with never mind.. lol we just don't get the prices around here other places get... o well 
New holland tc 45
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mudfarmer

Same here Joe. Once in a while find someone willing to pay a premium for a good product but mostly want it at $40 or $50 per face cord "like they've always paid" ::) Funny they don't tell walmart or the gas station the same line. They are just trying to take advantage of you (whether they know it or not). Sell it for what it costs you to produce + fair markup or set it on fire in the yard and put the video on youtub

Spike60

People struggle with the concept of "premium" because most of them just think "wood is wood". They often need to have a bad experience before they'll pay more to avoid it.

Going to be entertaining this year to say the least. The glut of dying ash over the last several years has run it's course. But it has skewed the business model around here in the sense that seasoning didn't really have to be factored into the equation. Made it easy for sellers and buyers alike. Now it's moving back to a traditional hardwood mix and folks need to allow for seasonong again.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
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Old Greenhorn

If you want to make folks appreciate what they are getting for their money, let them cut split and stack a couple of cords (elderly folks exempted). It won't take long for 90% of them to say 'forget that, $250 is CHEAP!' 
  For me, firewood is not 'ambiance' it is survival through the winter and comes down to economics. It is just cheaper to heat with wood I collect, harvest, buck, split and stack than it is to do it with oil. That's it. If I had to pay for wood with cash it would likely not pan out. I would pay about $2500. per season for wood. That day will come for me, of course, but not yet, it just takes me longer to do my wood these days.
 I am still taking all the dead ash I can get my hands on, that ship has not sailed yet, but it's working it's way toward the horizon for me too. I am a small individual cutter, not a production guy, so I can still find smaller trees and once in a while a big one to make a difference, but not like before. Besides, I like to mill the bigger logs because Ash won't be easy to get for build projects.
 Back in my working days I would buy wood from a friend down the road during years I was overworked and the kids required the little 'home time' I had, and the cash was available. I never complained a bit about getting a full sized load and stacking it myself while paying the going rate. He did give me a slight discount because he could split and load his truck and have it laying in my driveway in less than an hour (less than 2 miles away) and be back home again with no issues. But that was his choice, I never asked for a discount. In those years I split by hand so I had a good idea what work I was being saved from by buying wood.
 If they don't work for it they will never appreciate it. With firewood, they never see the work involved, so it's easy to complain. Just stop selling at low prices and let the weekend warriors beat each other to death with their price wars. I know 2 local suppliers fairly well, one raised his prices this year and is HOPING some of his regulars drop out because he has too much work and firewood just doesn't bring the profit that land clearing and tree work brings. The other raised his price to $250. a couple years back and let the chips fall where they may. He is still quite busy and he doesn't really need that work either. The logs he doesn't cut and split this year will be in the pile for next year or they will wind up in his OWB heating his complex. Bob, I am sure you know both of these guys.
 Oh, and it's just my opinion, but folks that start calling around for firewood prices around thanksgiving time should pay a good premium for their stupidity, and those that 'gotta have firewood' in January should pay 60% more, if they can find a source that can dig it out of the snow.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

HemlockKing

I was thinking the same OGH, let em split it themselves and see what think then! Don't want to pay? Good go without heat for awhile then maybe you will see the commodity I offer is much more important than  all the other material plastic junk you buy at Walmart and don't argue their prices, so what gives, you just like screwing over little guys? People are just not pleasant to deal with in the slightest. 
A1

Al_Smith

Back in the day I had one smart aleck say something about the price which was cheap enough .My response was the wood is free ,you're paying for  the labor and delivery costs .He never bought any more from me  which suited me just fine .

mike_belben

I have determined that i wont work for free at things i dont want to do, and $50 a rick is working for free.  If you factor in joint damage its worse.  So i wont sell any more wood until i build a processor but i still have all this highgrade to release so i am harvesting and piling.  What gets punky can go in the evaporator or in my stoves. 

Anyway whenever i get back to it i will handle lowballers exactly how i did before.  I give them the numbers of the guys who are cheaper.  A man can only process so much wood.  Pillheads sell soaking wet doaty wood cut down just a few months prior to burning and on front lawns in the rain. when the 3 of them pull in your yard toothless and high looking at all you and your neighbors stuff you will realize how little you like the $40/rick crowd.   


Either way, it serves my needs to have the cheap guy get bought out early in the season so i send lowballers to them as fast as possible.  No one is a lowballer in january/february when the pipes are fixing to freeze and wood peddlers are all universally sold out of sopping wet big blocks of wood that need kindling 2x4 supplments to stay lit.  Theyll see the value in the extra $20
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Theres nothing wrong with $40 pillhead wood in the summer. I have bought it from them and brought to my friends a few times.  Its real hard to sell wood here in summer and addicts gotta eat too so it helps everyone i think. 
Praise The Lord

HemlockKing

I suppose that makes sense, just overload the cheap guy, get on with the process of them finally coming back to you full circle for your original asking price lol 
A1

mike_belben

Theres a pallet shop near me that sells a truckload of oak and poplar cant trimmings for $50 for a full 8ft bed dumped in. When their pile is up i cant sell wood.  When its gone i get what i ask.  Thats the measuring stick.  


Fine.. Help that pile be depleted in cool weather.  Deep cold brings deeper pockets.  I wanna sell all my inventory in the deep pocket window.  Its not xold enough here for year round sales.  If youre wearing a T shirt you cant sell any so just wait.  But you need fast delivery capability to capitalize on the short duration arctic blasts. Thats why i rounded up the bits to build a big 1ton dump.  In summer i would have to deliver and stack 1 rick to make a sale.  In a cold snap i get to dictate the terms.  Three rick minimum dumped out and im gone. 

Praise The Lord

jimbarry

QuoteJust stop selling at low prices and let the weekend warriors beat each other to death with their price wars.
Exactly.

Quote...folks that start calling around for firewood prices around thanksgiving time should pay a good premium for their stupidity, and those that 'gotta have firewood' in January should pay 60% more, if they can find a source that can dig it out of the snow.

Again, exactly this point. And there will be some that are new homeowners to the area and need wood. For those, I offer up some education on what they need to do (buy green and season themselves) if they are receptive to listening.

Quote....let them cut split and stack a couple of cords...
We did that with a customer. Told them if they helped out stacked we'd pay them in firewood. They lasted 1 hour and told us they'd be happy to pay for it delivered.
We're now 20-30% more in selling price that everybody around us for seasoned wood. We're ok with that. We're sold out already from repeat customers and new customers (their friends and neighbours). We're up 80% over last year. Gotta say though, it took a lot of our time to get it done, so likely that is the limit for us. Actually looking at scaling back and just focusing on the kiln dried market. Will work half as much, but profit will much more. Hard to argue that math.  Some people just want dry wood delivered and put it in their house or shed with no other fuss. That's the market we are focusing on.

mike_belben

in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  come back and get my crates when i drop off the next rounds.  no more advertising, just serve that handful of richies and do whatever other jobs they require.  powerwashing, tree work, fencing, pretty up the woods, flowerbeds, stone walls, etc.

there are many large parcels of land in the area paying tax bills that exceed my family income.  the richies are out there, ya just gotta have a way to meet them and have them be impressed with you when you leave. 

Praise The Lord

jimbarry

Quote from: mike_belben on September 28, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  come back and get my crates when i drop off the next rounds.  no more advertising, just serve that handful of richies ...
That's been the plan here, pick up a mini skidsteer with pallet forks that can pickup and travel with 1,000lbs. Skidsteer would have to weigh less than 2000lbs to be able to lift it aboard the truck and still carry 2 cords on crates. 

The 257B2 we have will do the job but its a beast at nearly 8000lbs.


 

doc henderson

Jim if the delivery area has a concrete drive, maybe a pallet jack could be used for placement.  we get ours on surface with the loader then move on the sidewalks with a pallet jack.  or get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

jimbarry

Here's the variables I use form the spreadsheet I made for costing.




jimbarry

Quote from: doc henderson on September 28, 2021, 04:48:18 PM
Jim if the delivery area has a concrete drive, maybe a pallet jack could be used for placement.  we get ours on surface with the loader then move on the sidewalks with a pallet jack.  or get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
95% of our customers are dirt driveway/grassy area. I could fabricate a pallet fork device much like the roofing/drywall industry use to delivery shingles/hardboard and use the grapple loader on our truck  to load/offload. But it would be limited in distance offloading due to the weight, likely would only get about 10ft away from the truck. I think most customers would not want pallets of wood lining their driveway. 
So as Mike said, with a mini skid, offload it, then pick up a pallet and put it right where the customer wants it, whether it's in their garage, back yard, etc.  Though I'd rather charge a deposit for the pallet crates, like $20 each, and if a repeat purchase is make, no added fee. But if they are a distance away and don't want to reorder but want their deposit back, well, they can bring the pallets to us (borrow a truck if they have to), or we can pick it up if we are passing by the area.

jimbarry

Quote from: doc henderson on September 28, 2021, 04:48:18 PM
.. get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
This is what you are refering to I think.


 

jimbarry

Smaller version of that, need a tilt deck though.


 

jimbarry

Quote from: mike_belben on September 28, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  ...
Mike, this pallet truck might is an answer to moving pallets of firewood.
ALL-T Powered All Terrain Pallet Trucks - YouTube

Hilltop366


Stephen1

I have discovered if you build it they will come. Charge what you need to charge to make a living. If your working and losing money, might as well go fishing or play golf.  I charge more for my sawmilling and KD than everyone around me. I am now booking for next April for portable. My yard has a 2 month backlog of logs from people that I will saw and then hopefuly KD. I bring the 1-3 logs in by Flat Bed Tow Truck. 
I used to worry about the next guy and trying to stay around thier price, but not anymore. These are my rates. Go to the other guy if you think I am to high. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

barbender

Jim, if you and your wife are only paying yourselves $15/hr I'd like to hire the two of you for my operation😁
Too many irons in the fire

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