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Author Topic: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?  (Read 625 times)

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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« on: September 20, 2021, 05:52:20 PM »
I can't believe I am asking this because I spent almost a week last year doing a complete rebuild on my old woodstove for my shop. It worked out pretty good, but it could be better. The stove is a tad too small for the building. Now I can get through another winter with it fine, but it is a lot of work keeping it fed and making a fire past through the night and the shop is cool in the morning. Again, it's not bad and it is workable.
 But I find myself considering upgrading to an indoor furnace that would have a bigger firebox to hold just a bit more wood and some draft control, perhaps a thermostat, and I suppose it needs a blower, but I'd like the stove to function safely when the power is out. I did some looking and this 'HY-C' Shelter model seems to be about the specs I am looking at. I want something that complies with the current EPA and building specs. My shop is concrete floors and concrete block walls. 24x40 so around 960 sq. ft, However, I have 15' ceilings and a loft built around 60% of the upstairs. I sue a ceiling fan in the center of the space to keep the air churned up all the time, year round. I had very little issue getting fairly even heat with just the woodstove and one small fan (except by the garage doors where it is always cooler).
 Does anybody have one like the model I mentioned? DOes anybody have thoughts on the sixing for this space? It's not hard to keep at 50 overnight, and It takes 2 hours to come up to 65 in the morning. I'd like to see if I could do better though and get a better burn from the stove. I am thinking 130-160,000 BTU unit should be about right when considering the building losses.
 Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2021, 10:53:37 AM »
Crickets, wow.

 I guess nobody runs an indoor furnace.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Online ljohnsaw

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2021, 02:08:39 PM »
Tom,  are your garage doors insulated?  I forget if they are roll up or overhead.  Maybe that should be you first step this year if possible?  If roll up, maybe make an accordion fold up wall with insulation board and foil tape as hinges.  Then you could fold it up for when you need to get something through during the winter.
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Offline Wudman

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2021, 02:14:15 PM »
I'm running an Englander, but it won't meet your current EPA specs.  Firebox is a little smaller than I would like, but it will heat my home if you keep it stoked.  Sorry, not much help here.

Wud
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2021, 02:38:17 PM »
John, My doors are overhead. Yes, just single thickness wooden doors. Keeping the shop warm enough is not really the issue. In my last shop it was because the woodframe building leaked like a sieve and I have to do something, so yes, I covered them with rigid foam board. This shop, not so much, I think because they face east and are on the leeward side of the building which helps a lot, and they get direct sun during the day. Previous shop was the opposite.
 The reason I am contemplating change is not so much keeping the building warm, I can do that with this stove pretty well, it is more finding a 'right sized' heating unit that might be more efficient and hold a fire longer with less tending, i.e. some automatic controls. I have to feed that stove before I go to bed every night and kick it up before breakfast each morning. Also, having an air blower to circulate heat would be helpful.
 Wudman, I will look into the Englander. Maybe they have an update EPA version. Are you happy with the construction and functionality of your unit (except those things you mentioned)?
Speaking of the EPA: What is the current standard for stoves? All I can find is up to May of 2020, nothing for beyond that and I think I am missing something.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Online 21incher

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2021, 06:45:14 PM »
My last house I used a pellet stove to heat the garage and barn basement ( My metal shop ). It was easy to meet code because of the sealed firebox and no chimney needed with the 4 inch dual wall kit they use. I just had to build it up on 2 layers of block to meet the 18 inch requirement. I loved that stove. Just fill it up once or twice a day depending on temp outside and set the thermostat. Very little ash had to be vacuumed out every couple days. Around 3 tons of pellets would last a normal winter and it was definitely worth it because at the time I was working and didn't want to waste time dealing with wood or creosote. Now that I am retired I heat my house with wood and have a Jotul stove that just barely makes it through the night and it's perfect for our house. Any larger stove that would contain enough wood for a longer burn time would not run efficient and clean cranked down so it's really a tradeoff for a indoor furnace. A friend of mine used a indoor hot air furnace hooked to his ductwork for a while but it was a constant creosote problem from the low burns and his chimney needed constant cleaning. Guess for big bucks some cleaner ones may be available now but not sure how they handle a dusty wood working shop.  Almost seems like a  outdoor furnace may be better for your needs as they are made to burn long and slow with a controllable output and combustion happens in a clean environment. Not much help but just some thoughts. 
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2021, 07:21:05 PM »
Well I appreciate those thoughts and angles. An OWB will not work for me. I don't have enough property and the smoke will be an issues with my neighbors. Not that I worry about it, but I think my town has some rules, and maybe even a ban of them because of bad actors. 10 minutes ago I was at my friend Bill's place on my road working on his edger about 20' from his OWB and the smoke was 'challenging' as he had just loaded it an hour before. His has 80 acres and it doesn't bother any neighbors so that is fine. For me, not so much.
 Yes, I get that low burns cause issues. I cut the inlets back on my current stove overnight, every night, to get it to last, but it has a catalytic combustor and burns clean. I also open it up in the morning to get the heat back up and yes, I hear that creosote tinkling down the chimney when I do and I give the chimney a couple of whack to knock it on down. I only cleaned the chimney twice last year, once in midwinter (as a safety check) and once again at the end of the season, just because. I didn't get much either time, so a clean burn. But a lot collected at the base of the chimney and either burned up or needed cleaning out. My thought is a good modern furnace with air circulation and auto draft controls properly sized should do the job better than what I have now. I think I am just a tad undersized for the space I have.
 I did read the manual for the model I mentioned in the OP and am not impressed. Not enough information about the function of the unit to suit my needs. Second rate was my first thought.
 I'll keep thinking. I just can't see a pellet stove coming close to heating that space and I really don't want to be tied into buying pellets. Cash is hard to come by. My firewood only costs my labor and I can also barter for it. In really bad times if/when I get old and feeble or sick, I have some young friends that would be happy to help me out with a donation or two. Yeah, I have been thinking about those days ahead of me which I now accept are coming...eventually and trying to prepare. I assume I won't be needing the shop heat nearly as much when I am an old fart, but the house will still need 5 cords and the house stove works as good as I could hope. I guess when that day comes I will find out who my friends are. ;D
 For now I am just exploring ways to heat the shop better and easier with plain old firewood.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Online 21incher

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2021, 07:33:53 PM »
My friend had one like this but it looks like they may be near 5k with tax these days  Royall 8150 Indoor Wood Furnace - 150,000 btu
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, and a logrite cant hook.

Offline GRANITEstateMP

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2021, 08:04:18 PM »
Tom, I sell to 2 people with indoor furnaces, both are older models none of the EPA stuff. Both said they are efficient, BUT need low moisture wood, no green stuff.

One is hot air, the other I think is tied to a forced hot water system? or maybe old radiators???

When we built our house in 09, we looked really hard at the Tarm brand products. We even visited there showroom up north of Lebanon NH. Super helpful folks, but our loan required us to have a system that could be left on its own (gas,oil,electric) and we couldn't swing having 2 expensive heat systems
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Offline DMcCoy

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2021, 08:31:56 AM »
Wood furnace being different than a wood stove?  I have a hearthstone wood stove made with soap stone and am pleased with it.  I had an all metal stove prior and this produces a much more even heat. My nephew has one and he has had stone cracking and iron issues, but I'm not sure his very intermittent use played a roll.
Either way having a glass door makes 'checking the stove' a quick glance.  If furnaces have this option I would seriously consider it.
Where I used to work they built a new building and wanted to get the dimensions for a propane furnace before framing the interior spaces.  I was part of the conversation and the salesman/installer went on and on(!!!) about insulation to the point he admitted he would be a better insulation salesman than furnace salesman.  It's something to consider, insulation makes the need for wood less - forever.
So they insulated and that furnace cycled on and off rapidly all the time.  I never forgot that.

Offline jmur1

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 11:11:54 AM »
Hi Tom:
I have a question for you.  Are the block walls insulated at all?  I have a 30x30 with 8' walls and used to heat with a large homemade blast furnace.  Same problem as you no problem to heat up but holding the heat was another story.  I covered the interior with framing and waterproof (second hand) roofing insulation and it is a different building.  Now I run a small air tight woodstove to heat.  I added an insulated overhead garage door and the shop is now perfect.  Cool in the summer and cozy in the winter.  It holds the heat for a long time.  It is no problem to shut the stove right right down at night and come in at 8am to a nice 10C   (50F).  You have a larger space for losses but I would bet a similar setup would work for you as well.  My stove is similar to this one:

 

  

jmur1
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Offline J 5

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2021, 02:40:14 AM »
    We ran 3 New Mac furnaces / two houses and a shop, before going to an outdoor furnace, they worked well.
                  J 5

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2021, 04:20:18 AM »
I have a Napoleon 150 here at the house, apparently EPA changed their standards and now this can't be sold in the USA. It's actually as clean as any. And even Holmes approves of the furnace since you can have electric, gas or oil burner as back up. They also make a bigger one, the Hybrid 200 model, but I didn't need any more heat for my 2000 sq ft house, plus basement space of 960 sq ft. I just burn mostly aspen and softwoods, so not as long a burn, but I don't need heat cranking out all day long here.  150,000 btu from the 150 model. But it's all a mute point since EPA standards are higher. They want you to buy higher priced fuels from their buddies.
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2021, 07:31:12 AM »
Catching up here  a little bit. Thanks for all the responses. The building does a fair job with the heat but I have never found evidence that the block insulated however, the attic space is. Furnaces and stoves are different in that furnaces have auto damper controls, forced air (room/building/duct) circulation, etc. The one I already have works pretty good.
Unfortunately this whole thing became something of a moot point when my bank account got pretty well cleaned out with an unexpected financial hit the other day. I'll get through another winter with what I have and think on this some more in the future as well as keep my eyes open for something in my travels.

Edit to add: SD Your stove is apparently available in the states through a couple of sources. Looks like a nice unit. Maybe I can stack up some bucks for next year.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline Spike60

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2021, 08:45:44 AM »
Tom; you might want to have a look at National Stove Works up by Cobleskill. Different stuff than the typical living room style woodstove. Walt (weimadog) has one up at his place in Cortland. Does a great job. Not sure how to define the difference between a stove vs a furnace, but they do some of both. 
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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2021, 09:29:07 AM »

Edit to add: SD Your stove is apparently available in the states through a couple of sources. Looks like a nice unit. Maybe I can stack up some bucks for next year.
Read more carefully and I think you'll find a 'no longer available' message on their pages. I looked at the first 3 Google hits which were in the USA and they can no longer get them down there due to EPA.
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Indoor wood Furnace reccomendations?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2021, 09:44:22 AM »
SD you are likely correct and a phone call or two would confirm it. But since I just took myself out of the market, I would just be taunting myself. 
 Bob, thanks for that tip, I like local stuff. I will certainly check them out for future knowledge and consideration. I had not heard of them, so I useful tip there indeed.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.


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