Inherited a Frick

[arsascusa]

I have inherited a circle mill. A distant family member gave me the "you can have this ol' mill but you have to move it" line and I took it. 

Comes with edger too. (Have to move that too) 

I can't wait until it's done. I have milled about 200 bf with a chain saw mill and this is a nice upgrade. 

Photos as I can. 

I need some help with disassembly. How do I disassemble the mandrel? 



 

 




 

That's what it looks like after several hours of brush clearing. 

Any help with the mandrel disassembly would be greatly appreciated. I have diagram from Frickco. 

[trimguy]

Welcome to the forum. Great score, but I don't know the answer.

[Southside]

Welcome aboard, and yup - nice score.  How long has she been sitting? @moodnacreek  and @Don P come to mind as guys who might be able to offer advice.

[Don P]

Take the blade off and take care of it.
Can you just pick it up as a unit and move it? Although it looks like the outboard end is on a concrete pour?
If backing out those outboard bearing adjusting nuts releases that bearing, I'd spray paint them first then back them off. Hmmm, I musta hit the italics button :. The marks will be wrong but somewhere to start when reassembling. Or are there bolts under the bearing? If not take the mount with it. From there it looks like you could just pick up the husk.

If you want to take the entire mandrel out, the middle bearing is a regular pillow block. Often a third bearing on a mandrel is a recipe for alignment woes. If there is a way to move that drive pulley in and get rid of the outboard 2' of shaft end. Put that adjustable bearing where the current middle bearing is and it'll make it easier to adjust the lead.

Or I'm misunderstanding what I'm looking at. And I must be, I'm not seeing how that middle bearing can move with a lead adjustment? The shaft must be dead level and able to slew side to side a bit to dial the blade in with the track and carriage when you reassemble everything.

The inboard is probably another pillow block. The diagrams might show the details of the assembly but yours is probably customized to some extent there.

You really need a big truck or trailer and rent a small Lull for a weekend unless you have some lifting toys. Looks like big fun in your future  

And photograph everything, the wind direction and number of wraps on the drum, etc. Can you tell I've had to take a wild guess when hooking the carriage back up :D

[mike_belben]

Must the arbor come out? Probably safer left in.


I would not try taking any sheaves off the mandrel but i also am fortunate to have some big iron to shuffle big junk around. If you have a skid steer with forks and a deckover trailer i would probably make a little wooden trasport crate to keep the shaft from getting bent.  Pluck the entire arbor up gently from overhead with some slings at each end on with a 3pt or bobcat jin pole attachment and set it in the transport cradle.  It looks like the whole saw head will fit on a 102" deckover from the pics to me. 

[Ron Wenrich]

You're going to get as many opinions as there are old time Frick users.  My experience with 3 bearing mandrels is that the middle bearing is adjustable.  That is what your's looks like.  The back bearing support is connected to the husk by the support underneath.  It looks like when you dismantle, the back support will be free floating.

How I would do it is to take the blade off.  If you have a blade board, put it on it.  The blade will be a lot easier to handle.  I would also remove the mandrel.  You'll have to make your adjustments after you install the mill, regardless if you leave the mandrel on the husk or you remove it.  A lot easier to mount the husk without the mandrel.  I wouldn't attempt to remove the pulley from the mandrel.  Just added work.

Anytime you adjust your mandrel on a 3 bearing mandrel, you have to loosen the center bearing.  Make your adjustment, then tighten the center bearing.  Doing it without loosening the center bearing will put a stress on both the bearing and mandrel and will cause a lot of grief.  

The current setup looks really sound.  I would take lots of pictures for reference, as well as measurements.  The way the walls are set up under the husk and track is what you want to make in the new location.  

[Don P]

Reading Ron's, I agree. One thing, if the carriage is still rolling true. Run it up to the blade. Mark a tooth and a point on the carriage, measure the distance between them. Roll that tooth to the rear and bring the carriage with you. Measure the gap again. The difference is the lead, record that. Now remove and store the blade.

Reading Ron's description and looking, this guy was good with where he had the husk locked down on that pour. At the end of that long shaft he was dialed in and pretty well in the center of the end bearing adjustment.

[moodnacreek]

Success depends on accurate resetting of the mill and the condition of the mandrel. Keep the collars clean and oiled or greased and the bearings covered. This is the heart of the sawmill and will make it or break it. Get a booklet on sawmill trouble shooting, there are several being reprinted. The time and effort to set this up properly will be taxing but if you have ripped with a chainsaw your not afraid of work. Good luck, post often.

[Ron Wenrich]

Here's the handbook that most guys use on circle mills:

https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

[arsascusa]

Thanks everyone. I apologize if I don't respond to everyone. The information is so helpful. 

Yes! It's a great score. I am so excited. I have spent hours pouring over it examining it. I am expecting a year or so to get it all set up. Been watching videos and reading. 

Thanks for the link to the sawmill guide pdf. Havn't seen that yet. I was hoping someone would send me stuff like that. 

Taking the blade off was another question. Looks like a 2 1/4 nut. Is it left handed or right handed thread? Don't know what a blade board is but the plan was to clamp a couple of fence pickets to it and handle it with that. i will google blade board. 

And thank you for the blade to carriage measurement. I didn't think about that. I don't have a plan yet for squaring the track to the husk yet. but that's months in the future. 

Yes, the guy did great installing it. I have a video of it running about 8 years ago. Tired all 4 people out at the end of the day, so it works great. 

Tractor will be lifting everything for me, I just have to disconnect it all. It will be a long and fun day. 

I have those supports above it that i can hook a come a long to to lift it. But how does it come out of the bearing? 

I am mechanically inept. Do i need to pull the long spindle out of the bearing on both the large red pulley and the center bearing or just the center bearing? And how does it pull out?

[moodnacreek]

I am not a Frick man but I think if you back off 3 press screws, all on the same side [leave the others to get back against] the complete mandrel can be lifted up and away. The saw nut should be std. thread on a r/h mill so get a big wrench on it and whack it c.c. with a hammer. Put an oil soaked rag between the collars and put the nut on hand tight. Look at the saw [and collars] to see exactly where they touch, hopefully at the extreme outer edges. When the time comes don't over tighten the saw. You are lucky you got a steel husk.

[sealark37]

A blade board is a piece of  1/2" plywood with a hole in the middle, and a perimeter frame of 3/4" X 2" boards.  Dismount the blade.  It is a right-hand thread.  Leave the mandrel on the husk, and move it as a unit.  Disconnect the cable feed, and take the tracks in three pieces.  If you can, chain the carriage to the center section of track for loading.  Your heaviest piece is the power unit.  A roll-back wrecker will make the move easier.  Save all the little pieces in a bucket.  The edger is easy.  Good Luck!

[arsascusa]

Ahh, thanks for blade board idea. That will work better than a couple of fence pickets. 

I am still debating on whether to take the mandrels off before transport or not. I hate to add extra work if I don't need to, but I am scared that something will twist or tweak if I don't. 

It will be the first week in Jan before I can do much else to it. 

And Sealark37, what's the purpose of chaining the carriage to the track? not tweaking either part or just convenience? I do know i don't want to have a carriage issue. (Please don't take that as being confrontational or whatever, just trying to understand more) 

Also I am seriously considering placing a 4x6 under the husk and the outlying pulley. They are already attached and perfectly aligned, i hate to lose that. 

[moodnacreek]

I recently pulled my sawmill out. The husk is about 7' 6' wide, a 3 bearing set up like the one to be moved here. I unbolted it from the husk 'timbers' because they are staying. Problem is the feed shaft hangs down so I lagged timbers under it. This 3 bearing husk has run since '96 when the mandrel was new. What I did was make it adjustable on the husk timbers [steel I beams] so I never touched the adjustments once it was dialed in. What I am talking about is changing the lead without risk of putting a bend in the mandrel. 3 bearing [or 4] are touchy to set up and getting the shaft straight is not a sure thing unless you have a machined surface. I used a dial indicator and a machinist's level and it took a long time.

[Don P]

What is the reason for the outboard end not being a larger "box" of channel... all one unit.  It looks like that would sure make it easier to move and set back up. What is hooking up to the flat belt?

What I'm wondering is it easier to weld it into a single solid unit, cut it free of the concrete and pick the whole works up.

[arsascusa]

The outboard end is so far out to allow room for the edger. If it was any closer the belts or the offload rollers would prevent edger access. 
Hopefully this picture explains it better. 

The husk is lag bolted to the treated board which is bolted to the concrete. That was my thought was to slide a 4x6 between the concrete and the treated board to create a larger box and keep it all intact. It's already lined up, already working right so why mess it up. I just gotta do it so that the left side is raised at exactly the same height and time as the right side so it doesn't twist. 

Moodnacreek, do you have any pictures of what you did that you can post? 

 


We also found this broken sprocket. It's available from frickco I found. It's part of the cable system under the husk. 

[arsascusa]

The flat belt goes to the sawdust chain. 

[Iwawoodwork]

That gear tooth would be easy to weld/build up with a mig or stick. Mike Belbin would have that welded up in a short time.

[moodnacreek]

That gear tooth would be easy to weld/build up with a mig or stick. Mike Belbin would have that welded up in a short time.

But it is cast iron so you would need nickel wire. I would drill, pin and braze it.   I am not good at posting any thing not typed, it would take all night and a helper and I can't sit long with my back. The husk bolt's down with 4 5/8" bolts. One of these holes , closest to the spreader is round, the other holes are oval in the direction needed to shift the husk to change the lead. Remember the point or nose of head block is 1/2" from saw tooth when you start.

[Ron Wenrich]

Am I reading this right?  You shift your husk to set lead?

[luap]

leave it intact and move the husk as one unit. Call a local mechanical contractor and ask if they have a retired amillwright that could advise you. these guys have moved all kinds of industrial equipment. powerplants. factories. big.heavy stuff without breaking anything.

[Sixacresand]

I love watching circular mills run. 

[moodnacreek]

Am I reading this right?  You shift your husk to set lead?

Yes, that is what I did. The drum shaft has a self aligning bearing so I could do that. The saw guide and splitter would go with it. The problem was I would keep looking at the guide pegs to see how much I moved it, out of habit, no change there. The mandrel was over 8' longand had 3 bearings but should of had 4 because if you gigged really hard you could scrub on the blade.  Those center bearings are hard to get the windage and elevation right. The mighty C. Creamer told me I could not ever do it so it had to be done [by Me].

[arsascusa]

Hey so what is "lead" that you mention? 

Looked all through my pictures and I see where there are two lag bolts attaching the husk to the foundation on the opposite side of the blade. You can see them in the pictures i posted. Next weekend I will take more detailed pictures of the blade side. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Page 42 of the Efficient Sawmill booklet that I had linked earlier. Explains it pretty well and how to set it.

[Don P]

That's a nice solution to the multi bearing problem... get them right and never touch that alignment again.

[moodnacreek]

That's a nice solution to the multi bearing problem... get them right and never touch that alignment again.

Thanks, Don.     It may not work for everyone. Any shaft running off the husk has to have a little movement. And when the set up was done things where very close to correct. The husk was long and pivoted on one bolt with the other 3 loose. It would go about 1/2" on the routed out holes and I had a screw adjustment set up on it. If the belts are not too tight you can give it more lead with this and the belts would pull back if you needed to go back. I considered this on the husk I just put in but it is a short 2 bearing so we will be conventional. Hope you are having a nice day, Doug

[Don P]

I was thinking about it last night some more. It would be sort of the same thing if all the bearings were aligned and bolted permanently to a plate or piece of channel. That could be mounted to the steel husk frame with a "kingpin" through the plate into the husk at the blade end and adjustment forward and back for the plate at the outboard end. Basically, its a 2 "bearing" setup as far as adjusting lead, the plate is keeping the multiple mandrel bearing setup correct and permanent.

Slewing the shaft, husk or something in between the two is all accomplishing the same thing. Figure out how to fine tune the angle of the blade in relation to the path of the carriage. For the first little while you'll be real intimate with whatever lead adjustment method you end up with.

Merry Christmas Everyone  

[arsascusa]

I really appreciate all the good info. Y'all are the best. 

Thanks Ron. I will consult the book before asking questions. 

Hey, so what are opinions / recommendations for sawmill placement? I have a couple of different places I can put it. One is flat, well within 6 inches and can be graded even more. 

The second place has a little slope to it. About 2 or 3 foot total. The rail part can be graded flat. And the erosion and water drainage can be taken care of. The ground in both places are very sandy. 

I am going to dig a concrete foundation just like the previous owner did. 

What about height of the rails? The current location seems like a lot of bending over but the higher I put the track the more concrete I need. The sloped area may be good for easier off loading and on loading. 

The intent of the mill is having fun on the weekend with friends making sawdust not a business. 

[Ron Wenrich]

The first mill I placed was on a flat area.  It gave us good access to all sides in the event you have to get into it with a loader.  I put in a 2 level floor.  Where the edger is should be lower than the where the sawyer stands.  You want about waist high on the edger side, and about mid thigh for the sawyer.  It gives more comfort for the workers.  Too high for the sawyer, and they have a hard time setting dogs, too low and its too hard for turning logs. 

For the logs, we made a log deck out of hickory poles.  We had them elevated a bit higher than the carriage head blocks.  We had some pretty big log ends that we put the poles on and our deck was about 20'. 

I've seen some mills where they were higher on one side than the other.  It made it better for logs, until you wanted to roll them in.  You don't want to work being bent over.  Logs are really heavy.  My system, the log deck was about waist high. 

Figure out what you are thinking about sawing, how many different sorts, and where you're going to put your slab pile.  You don't want to be carrying your heavy stuff.  It goes closest to the rolls or off the end.  Work smart, not hard.

[moodnacreek]

My first mill was parallel and into a bank, the logs rolled off the side of a truck and gravity down to the log deck. This is how I got my strong opinions about peaveys and cant hooks. Don't do this.   If you will be handling  logs with a machine, that is carrying them to the log deck, then the log end of the mill is not so important. You want a nice long flat yard on the lumber end where the hand work is done, lumber sorted, truck and or trailer loaded etc.  Trust Me, I've done this all wrong and still pay the price whenever i am running.

[Rigg]

That looks like a really nice all steel setup. You've got all the components you need at once.

I would try to unbolt the husk from the track and take as one piece and not mess around with the mandrel, but I can't tell from the photo how its attached.

The saw nut should be a normal thread. At least mine is.  I have a 00 Frick.

Do you know if that's a 00 Frick or a 0 Frick?  Looks like one or the other.

As far as where to put it, it seems like most handset mills around here are more on the top or side of a hill with the saw dust pit down hill.

[Don P]

Here's a friend using mine.  Not perfect but has worked ok for a hobby mill. It's cut into a bank sloping down to the left and down towards the outfeed end of the track. The roller table where I'm standing to offload is about waist high. When I dig out where Rick is standing there is a deck that puts the carriage around knee level. I can still lift the world to my waist but its all gone from there up so I wanted to have the cant hook very low when turning up.

Now that I have skidsteer and having dropped it into that pit, I need to redo all of that.





Maybe I have a skidsteer, off to try to fab and weld the front knuckles back on the arms, oops.

[luap]

I have moved my mill an americn#1) at least three times. The track is steel in two sections bolted together A pair of house trailer axles are mounted under the husk. I rolled the carriage on to the far section and chained it down and slid it on a car hauler trailer. The first section was unbolted and also slid on a trailer. It al worked out well The powerunit (671 detroit is the heaviest piece and was winched onto a trailer The carridiage is a rack and pinion drive so there is no drum and cable. any modifications you make should keep the future in mind.

































i

[moodnacreek]

I have moved my mill an americn#1) at least three times. The track is steel in two sections bolted together A pair of house trailer axles are mounted under the husk. I rolled the carriage on to the far section and chained it down and slid it on a car hauler trailer. The first section was unbolted and also slid on a trailer. It al worked out well The powerunit (671 detroit is the heaviest piece and was winched onto a trailer The carridiage is a rack and pinion drive so there is no drum and cable. any modifications you make should keep the future in mind.

































i

Never seen an American with a rack feed, that must be an oldie.

[arsascusa]

Great time working on the mill. Taking more of it apart. Thank you all so much for helping me with measurements and shortcuts.

The lead measured 1/16 of an inch.

Took the mandrel off completely. Not just loosened the adjustment screws, took the bolt off from the bottom and took the whole thing off. It is heavier than I expected. Used straps to ratchet it up. Will wait for the tractor to move it. It seemed easier to do it that way then remove the adjustment screws on one side. The studs on the bottom may require copious amounts of lube to get them back in. We will see.

Built the blade board. Thanks for that.

Took track apart. It was coupled together so I had to remove it from one end to the other.

The edger tables have been taken off and moved.

Picked out the place to install it. Will be doing the post foundation. Would prefer a concrete one, but to get it to the height I want costs too much right now.  

 

 

  

[moodnacreek]

Really glad to see your progress. To have it set up and roofed over is great piece of mind and the sooner the better. Keep oil or grease on those collars, in fact the whole spindle area. Keep us posted, Happy new year.

[Southside]

@Don P  What happened? 

[Don P]

On the skidsteer? I put some pics of the repair over on the daily carnage thread this morning. It looks pretty but it hasn't brought home any bacon yet  :D.

[arsascusa]

 

 

 

 

 

 Big move day on the 26th. 3 trucks and trailers and a tractor. I have great family and friends. 

Working on the foundation and getting it ready. The plan is to move the husk and place it on the foundation. Then move the carriage and place it on the track in front of the husk. Taking the Detroit diesel 4-71 and dropping it off with another friend to get running. 

The foundation may not be optimal but it's what I can afford at this point. It will be well braced. The husk and the outlying pulley will be all secured to a single 4x6 from the end of the pulley to the other end of the track. 

[beenthere]

Good to see your progress, and look forward to hearing about your move. 

[moodnacreek]

Don't stop now.

[customsawyer]

Got a call yesterday that they have 2 two Fricks. If anyone is interested I can get more details.

[arsascusa]

Move day was successful. 3 trailers, a mahindra tractor and lots of friends. 


Y'all told me measure everything. I thought i did. 

Important measurements are:

Height of the offloading end. 
Height of the husk. 
That will help with the height of the posts or what ever you used for the foundation. 

I used a laser to measure to cut the posts off once I found that measurement. 

The tracks are 15' long. That doesn't mean you just sink posts every 15' foot. 

The drum that runs the cable has to be attached and that will determine where the track begins and end. I am 6 inches off. 

I was able to move the 2x10 that was under the husk and reattached the husk and outlying pulley into the exact same holes. That helped with alignment. 

On the outlying pulley, you can see another oops. That corner post is exactly where the belts to the motor go. 

Lots of challenges and I love it. 

 

 

 

 

     

[Ron Wenrich]

Are those posts in the ground or just sitting on top?

[arsascusa]

The posts are buried at least 2.5 feet in the ground. 

I am concerned that they are not thick enough. Wood posts have become so expensive and I have had to do something now because of timeframe. There will be a ton of cross bracing secured with carriage bolts to minimize racking. 

My plan is to make a concrete pillar made from filled blocks with rebar in the corner by the outlying pulley. I will also make concrete walls for the foundation in the areas that the track doesn't meet. That will be better than trying to shove another post in there. 

[Ron Wenrich]

If you're not down below frost line, you might get some heave in the cold weather.

Did you dig a sawdust pit?  Best to do that before you get to far along.

[moodnacreek]

If that center section that supports the husk ever moves and you are having problems sawing it will be very confusing. I realize you need to get set up but having done my first mill all wrong I have to be a little negative here. Concrete footings here and where the log gets turned is especially important. Not saying treated wood posts won't work but what's under them?

[arsascusa]

I will gladly accept criticism from your experience. 

Frost line is 8 inches. 

It is very sandy. I wonder if the posts will sink into the ground. 

And you are right. Sawdust pit will be a pain. But it's very easy digging. 

[Don P]

I jack and shim mine regularly. Its in posts cut off at ground level with 6x6 runners on top of those and then the steel legs and tracks. The ground is soft, the logs are heavy and it pounds down at the infeed end. You need a big snowshoe of concrete. 

[arsascusa]

Progress is slow. But it's coming along. Had to pour some concrete to make better supports where I had mis measured the track length.

Next week I will be leveling and straightening the track and securing it.  

 

[btulloh]

Looks like you got a top saw that matches your Frick.  lol

[beenthere]

arsascusa
You can go to your gallery and edit your photo to turn it right side up. 

Good to see your progress.

[arsascusa]

Any suggestions as to shims? What works best and is the easiest? Washers? Folded tin? 

[Iwawoodwork]

Arsas----  any updates on your sawmill. are you sawing yet?

[Satamax]

I will gladly accept criticism from your experience.

Frost line is 8 inches.

It is very sandy. I wonder if the posts will sink into the ground.

And you are right. Sawdust pit will be a pain. But it's very easy digging.

May be this could give you an idea. 

[arsascusa]

 

 

Still working on set up. The ground is so sandy, that the posts settled into the ground and made a huge difference with alignment. I was having to make up an inch in shims it had settled so much. So sandy. 

I did get a chance to go to a tractor show here locally and there is a working Frick mill there. Met all the people and I will be there this year to help get it ready for the show. Didn't get to see it run because the studs broke that hold the blade to the mandrel. It took some time to figure that one out. The impact wrench couldn't get the nut off, and leverage bars kept getting longer and finally it broke free. Big challenge. Gave me all sorts of opportunity to watch and learn about the blades, teeth, etc. 

After seeing all the pounding the track was taking, I decided to build the foundation with concrete like I should have in the first place. 

So I took it all apart and am building concrete block walls under it. You can tell I am not a mason, but each wall is getting better and better. The plan is in the next month be finished with the walls and then put it back together. 

After that, I will build the canopy part of the mill. Can't afford the whole 70 feet, but I can at least cover the important stuff. 

Tarps are keeping all the bearings dry. No rust yet. 

As to the motor, I replaced all the wires on the DD 471 and still need to find a RPM gauge. It turns over easy, but doesn't run yet. Will soon.