Trying out different sawmills

[boatman]

I am checking out different sawmills for a part time business.  Today I had a chance to use a Lucas 6-18 for 5 hours sawing cherry and white oak.  The logs were only @12"-14"/8ft.  The engine had a hard time with these logs, slow going.  I enjoyed it though.  When we stopped I thought it was around noon and it was 2:30 already. 

It seems this mill doesn't have the correct power to patience ratio that I'm looking for.  That is it was really slow at times and I need something faster to avoid getting irritated.  New tips on the blade.  For each horizontal cut we would only take 2 inches at a pass as it was all the engine could handle.  It seems some on the benefit of the swing blade is lost if it takes 4 passes to make a 2x6.  Is this normal?  These were not great logs.  Some of the lumber curved allot as we cut. 

Next I'm off to find someone with a manual band mill, maybe a lt28 or something similar.

[zopi]

I'm thinking you will like the band mills...they can be underpowered too...remember, you want the most mill you can afford with the biggest engine...within reason...

Where you located?

[Don K]

That is not typical for the swingmills I have been around.

Don

[boatman]

I live in South West Michigan.  Lots of hydraulic band mills around here.  I would like to get some time on a LT28 or 40 manual mill to get a feel for what's involved.  I work alone mostly.  My wife helped load the first log into the trailer yesterday and then said something about getting hydraulics before she went back into the house while I finished the rest.  If I can get her out to help once or twice more I may just find a Metavic under the tree this Christmas.

Anyway, I was surprised at how slow the swing mill was.  The man had just re-tipped the blade and it was a rather rough cut.  Maybe something was out of wack.

[zopi]

smart lady...you should listen to her..if you can afford...none of us are getting younger...

[brdmkr]

Boatman,

I have a 618 and it should not have needed to take just 2 inches at a time.  Sounds like the blade was dull, out of adjustment, or sharpened incorrectly.  I have had that problem before and it seemed that it was due to incorrect sharpening creating too much lead on the blade.   A newly tipped blade and better attention to sharpening fixed the problem.

[Firebass]

It seems this mill doesn't have the correct power to patience ratio... ?   I'm with brdmker Something must not be set up right.     I sawed a bunch of white oak recently that had been dried for 3 years ... well maybe sat for 3 years never really dried,... but reguardless only problem I had taking a 8" cut was the chips were so hard that they are like little pieces of rock and sting when they bounce off of you. ;D   Go with the swinger... ;)

Firebass

[shinnlinger]

HI,

The Oct/Nov "special" issue of Sawmill and Woodlot management magazine (One of our sponsors) has a nice breakdown of the "Great portable sawmill shootout."  It has a nice breakdown of a wide variety of mills  and how they fared in the competition and nice interviews with the operators so you can get a good feel as to the pro's and cons.  I would think it would be a very handy way for someone to compare different brands and style of mill.  Swing blades and a chainsaw mill are there with many brands of bandmill, from manual to fully hydraulic.

www.sawmillmag.com

[boatman]

I have tried to download that oct/nov issue and have not been able to open it.

I guess that was a bad joke in that earlier post,  What I was saying is that I don't have the patience for such slow cutting.  If it were my mill, I would have stopped and adjusted, fixed, replaced, whatever it took to get it preforming as I expected it should. 

This is my first time ever using a mill, so maybe I expect too much?

I am not discouraged.  I enjoyed the work and look forward to more. 

This 6-18 did not have the setworks, I can see where that would make it easier.  In all the swing blade videos I have seen they set the log up on something, off the ground.  Why is this?  It seems the log would be more stable on the ground.  We had them up on 6x6's today as that is how he had it setup already.  Sure is a big pile of sawdust!

[brdmkr]

This 6-18 did not have the setworks, I can see where that would make it easier.  In all the swing blade videos I have seen they set the log up on something, off the ground.  Why is this?  It seems the log would be more stable on the ground.  We had them up on 6x6's today as that is how he had it setup already.  Sure is a big pile of sawdust!

Do you mean that it did not have a mechanism to tell you how far you dropped the blade?  If so, you can bet that would have made it easier.  It is actually easier to mill the logs when they are off the ground.  If the notches in the bunks are cut square the log will be very stable and you have the advantage of being able to recover more of the  log.  One of the swingers advantages is being able to cut really big logs where they lay.  So, you can cut them on the ground and may need to if the log is really big and support equipment is lacking. 

I really like my swingblade mill, but I am thinking a fully hydraulic band mill is in my future (distant future).  I will likely keep the 618 for really big logs.

[boatman]

Maybe I am using the wrong term.  It didn't have that nifty hand crank to move the blade left and right.

[boatman]

brdmkr,  Why the hydraulic band mill?  Do you find them better for smaller logs?

[Ianab]

It seems some on the benefit of the swing blade is lost if it takes 4 passes to make a 2x6.  Is this normal?

Something is out of adjustment with that mill, possibly the blade has actually been retipped wrong? Have heard of some saw shops rebuilding them how they 'think' they should be, not how the manufacturer specifies them. The geometry of the cutters is critical to the swingmills performance and the manufacturers have done a lot of experimenting to get it right. Anyway my mill will cut 2x6s with no problems, and it's an 8" blade with only 8hp. You have to slow down a bit on the bigger cuts, but not so much that it would be worth taking 2 bites at it.

In all the swing blade videos I have seen they set the log up on something, off the ground.  Why is this?

None of the swingblade mills can cut all the way to the ground. Reason is that when the blade is horizontal and you swing it back to vertical, the edge of the blade swings below the cutting level. So you need to keep the blade about 4" clear of the ground and there is no way to get the last couple of boards out of the bottom slab.

You can cut logs on the ground, especially if they are too big to move easily, but you are left with a heavy bottom slab. You can pick that up, flip it over and load it on top of the next log if it's got good boards in it that are worth the effort to recover.

But for smaller logs you can roll around around with a cant hoot or move with your machinery, setting the logs up on some wooden bunks makes life much easier. You can also set up the bunks to allow for taper in the logs.

Ian

[brdmkr]

brdmkr,  Why the hydraulic band mill?  Do you find them better for smaller logs?

Likely would be, but that is not the reason.  I am just getting lazy :D :D :D :D

In all honesty, my back does not like offbearing from the height of most logs.  A drag-back feature would be really nice.

[Ron Wenrich]

If you're not going portable, you may want to consider a Belsaw circle mill.  We've had several threads in the past couple of months where guys have put these mills in.  They're cost efficient, since they are used, and they are fairly inexpensive.  Do a search on the Belsaw here on the forum, and you'll come up with the threads.

Those little circle mills will produce a lot of lumber in short order.  Your patience won't be tested as quickly, and you'll be able to use your time and money for other things.   ;)

[boatman]

I forgot to mention I now have a trailer load of Oak (to rebuild the trailer with) and a start on the Cherry needed for new trim in the house and finishing the basement.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

and Welcome to the forum Boatman  ;) ;D 8) ive read afew of your posts and it sounds like your getting into an intresting market with the boat timber im looking forward to your imput Mate  ;D 8) 8)

With the Lucas id say it was more a saw maint issue than anything to to with the mill itself from the sounds of things  mate ;) saw maint is the most important thing weather your using any type of mill some saw docs can be slack with how they setup the smaller saws thinking its not a huge drama if their out with their face and clearance grinds  it always pays even if its just come back from a retip to give it a sharpen to make sure its going to do a good job from the time you start sawing i do it to every saw ;) as a swinger should do  a 4" to 6"pass w/out any protest if the saws spoton  ;) ;D 8) an 8 or a 10-30 with a slabber woud do a good job on those wide  knees and keel sections you will be milling  Mate  ;) also my 8-20 with a 20hp briggs will pull a 6 wide cut strait of the mark but i usually do the two passes on anything over about 4 to 6" or if im in harder timber as it a bit easier on the machine and the saw  ;) ;D 8)

Brdmkr you can build yourself a work bench to go under the lucas to make life alittle easier on your back in those smaller dia logs 2x12' 8x8"s lengthwise with 4x6' 6x6" bolted crosswise should bring things upto a nice working level Mate  ;)

They do have a board dragback Mate  ;) :D ;D I use a little trick when im sawing boards upto 6x1 1/2" and 12' long when you finish your horizontal cut and swing it to vert to come back first cut on the next board tip the one you just cut down and bring it over to behind the horizontal blade guard and drag it back with you on the way back untill it gets to the ballance point and pick it up with one hand and continue  to finish the cut using the pull handel theres no wasted movement then when your sawing solo Mate

Regards Chris

[paul case]

boatman
ron may be righton the mill choice. my first mill was a belsaw m14 that ran off a tractor pto. i bought it out of the paper for $1000 and set it up, sawed with it off and on for 10 months and sold it to a fella that i had sawn for at $2500. i still had sawdust on the brain and bought a thin kerf bandmill. i get a lot more lumber and less sawdust pus it usesless fuel and the blades cost less for me to maintain . try them all out and if you are still itching(caesed by the sawdust on the brain bug)buy the one you like ,but keep on posting your ideas     pc

[revnell]

Hi Boatman, I have a 8-24 Briggs Peterson swingmill in Traverse City, MI. You are welcome to come here to my place for a demo if you like. I believe you have some Peterson literature? I take my mill to the Ag Expo in East Lansing for demonstration. Just make sure you see personally how the different mill designs operate and weigh not only the purchase price but the operating cost. You are wise to come to the Forum and ask for knowledgable advice.

[firefighter]

I purchased a Peterson Portable Swingblade Sawmill and used it last weekend for the first time it worked great ,if you go on there web site you can find a miller in your area and ask them for a demo .I had afew people watching us and it was the first time they had seen a swingmill in action ,they were very impresed . The demo might have gotten me a milling job .Good luck in your quest for a mill .

[dMizer]

You mentioned seeing a demo of a LT28 or LT40. We can hook you up with a Wood-Mizer owner in your neck of the woods to get a demonstration or you could make the short trip down to Indy for a full hands-on experience . You can shoot me an email at dfloyd@woodmizer.com.

Darryl

[Part_Timer]

Boatman

I have an 8/25 Peterson and I'm here to tell you that there is no reason that a swinger would have to work that hard to cut.  I can make an 8" deep pass in red or white oak with out a problem.  If the blade is good and sharp hickory isn't much of a problem either.  The horizontal measurement is made with a hand wheel on the Peterson.  No pushing left or right.

I'm down around Warren indiana so if your ever in the area your welcome to stop down and run mine for awhile. 

[boatman]

I am researching Turner Mills right now and haven't found much info on them.  I like that all work takes place on one side of the mill.  Anyone here have experience with Turner Bandmills?

I contacted WM about checking out a LT28 but it seems the closest was almost all the way to the HQ.  So I may just drive there this week.

[shinnlinger]

I have a Turner and love it and every one I met who has one feels like I do.  I'm not bashing other mills, but the Turner is built very simple and strong.  You can buy the belts and bearings at NAPA. If you are a decent welder you can easily  make track extensions.   I recently bent a bandwheel dropping it off my truck, but since it was a trailer tire it was an easy repair.  It is designed so that you can maintain and upgrade the mill using your local resources.

[boatman]

What little I have heard about Turner mills has been good.  How wide is the throat? I've seen reference to a width of 30-36" but this may be the track.