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RR Ties for $40

Started by GeneWengert-WoodDoc, December 29, 2012, 08:36:07 PM

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WV Sawmiller

Ron, et. al,

    Following is a quote from a US EPA document listing proposed recycling methods for old tires. Other sources I reviewed indicated the grip of nails and such as comparable to wood. When I first heard of it I thought it was a creative use of a problem asset. I do not know the cost to manufacture or what other environmental problems they may create but it did seem like a good method to get rid of old tires. I do not know if they are more subject to fire/burning than wood or other issues. They would seem to be more resistant to rot and insect damage. They would seem to have flexibility to resist some of the problems associated with rigid materials like concrete. They look like they would be preferable in very wet environments.

"Railroad Ties – Highly durable, rubber-encased railroad ties are being produced using scrap tires. These railroad ties have a steel-beam core filled with concrete that is then encased in 80 pounds of ground-up scrap tires and discarded plastic bottles, held together with a special binder or glue. These railroad ties are over 200% stronger than creosote-soaked wooden ties, enabling railroads to use fewer ties per mile. Moreover, rubber-encased railroad ties could last 60 to 90 years versus 5 to 30 years for wood."

    I am not advocating their use over wood. Just advising the technology is in the works and does help dispose of a problem waste product.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

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sandsawmill14

most of us will never know if they last 60-90 yrs. :D  but seriously as a nation we do waste so much it is crazy  i am a big supporter of recycling anything possible.  Thats one of the reasons i run a band mill in stead of circle. I could have bought a circle mill for 10000 less than my b 20 less than 10 miles from my house but it took 5 men and about 40 bucks an hour for diesel add in the extra kerf and you saw 1000 ties per week and make the same amount of money as with my b 20. just makes no sense to me
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Ron Wenrich

I did some searching on the rubber RR ties.  Seems that they came up with it back in the early '90s.  Another was a company that was going to produce them.  Went to their website and there was scant information on it.  Seems if it was a big marketable product, they would have it plastered all over the place. 

I think there are several things in play.  Just because you have a product, doesn't mean you have a market.  Recycled ties have a place, and they may even be more desirable.  It doesn't mean that they can crack the market.  Tried and true often outweighs new technology.

Economics can be another factor.  Getting material to recycle is relatively cheap when there isn't much of a demand.  When I did work recycling urban timber, we could get logs for free.  We could have gotten them for a tipping fee if it was allowed.  But, there were no other mills in the area.  Our competition was mulchers who did charge a tipping fee.  We got plenty of logs.

If they could produce a tie cheaper, then demand would rise, but so would the demand for the base material.  And, if profit levels would be high, more producers would come on line.  That would make demand for the base materials even greater, and costs would go up.  We have to pay $5 to have tires recycled.  What would base costs be if they paid $5 to buy the tires?

In addition, you have the market force of the entrenched current suppliers.  Would supply dry up if they dropped price by $1-2?  Probably not, since there isn't an alternate market large enough to take in the supply.  That drop in price would be driven back to the stump.

I'm not overly concerned about recycled material coming into the marketplace, at this time.  We can grow trees and mfg ties rather cheaply compared to the capital outlay to build a recycling plant.  Maybe sometime in the future they will be able to make it cheaply with a big 3-D printer. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Leigh Family Farm

Not about rubber ties, but when I was in France over the holidays, I noticed that they use concrete tires for nearly all of their railroad ties near Paris. They have huge piles of concrete ties like we have wooden ones. Just interesting...
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

goose63

I have seen some concrete ties up here
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
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SawyerBrown

Quote from: kilgrosh on January 06, 2015, 12:22:54 PM
... when I was in France over the holidays, I noticed that they use concrete tires ...

No wonder French-made cars aren't very popular!   :D
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Okrafarmer

Quote from: SawyerBrown on January 07, 2015, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: kilgrosh on January 06, 2015, 12:22:54 PM
... when I was in France over the holidays, I noticed that they use concrete tires ...

No wonder French-made cars aren't very popular!   :D

Ha, nice!

Well, I'm not sure what price ties are going for, but my parents are having their fifteen acres or so of hardwoods logged off right now (heavy selective cut, leaving as many small trees and a few selected favorite species as possible) and I'm glad they waited until now instead of back when ties were $20. Not sure what ties are in their part of western Kentucky, but the logger said tie logs were a major driver for them as they do the job. They are using chainsaw and cable skidder. I think they're getting mostly oak but some other hardwoods as well. Dad was pleased with the price he's getting, and it sounds like the logger is being considerate with the land (Dad keeps an eye on him and pokes around with his D-2 to smooth up the trails and clean up after them a bit).
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

stavebuyer

As of today sawn 7x9s ties are bringing $40 in KY

longtime lurker

Concrete ties have become the norm here over the last 20 or so years. They still use wood on bridges, points, in the yards... but the main lines are steadily going to concrete. Dedicated tie operations are definitely a thing of the past in my part of the world

There are also trials being done or recycled plastic ties now. The data looks good ( for plastic), the higher initial cost is compensated for by a longer service life/ less maintenance.

Thing being that in either case - concrete or plastic - you can't mix and match them with wood. So replacement of wood ties with wood ties is going to be ongoing even as a roll out of new materials occurs.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Okrafarmer

So does anybody have any updates on tie prices now-a-days?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

stavebuyer

Quote from: Okrafarmer on March 04, 2022, 10:35:36 PM
So does anybody have any updates on tie prices now-a-days?
$40 for 7x9

customsawyer

Sounds a lot like your last reply on this matter. ;D
Interesting that is the title of this thread.
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