Clearing small saplings

livemusic · April 17, 2024, 08:14:19 AM

I've been working on my 57 acres for years now, lol. I have been and am still most curious about clearing a tract for timber stand improvement (even aesthetics in my case) of mostly hardwood saplings that are 1/2 inch diameter and larger. Countless ones 1 inch to, say, 4 inches. (Or, I could limit it to 3 inches!) I also will clear larger trees for crop tree release for the desired crop trees. I have been doing this with machete, chainsaw and brush cutter / clearing saw. Hard work! And I have spent an enormous amount of time looking at every mechanical means I can find. Everything from what fits on a tractor to a skid steer and even specialized tractor type machines.

Of course, a forestry mulcher can do this and it's awesome, I hired a guy working adjacent to my tract to do three hours on mine so I could see what he could do clearing a trail and also an invasive thicket. Works awesome but it's expensive. Have looked at buying this and that equipment. A man on a very near tract hired a guy with a Brown tree cutter behind a heavily-fortified, armor-plated Ford tractor. (I wonder if forestry mulchers have largely made the Brown tree cutter and armored tractor less desirable or if it still dollars up.)

But I know that I have seen @SwampDonkey here mention that he does this for a living in Canada, him on foot, using the large Stihl brush cutter / clearing saw? So, what comes to mind is who hires this done? Is it a timber company? And why do they use a man on foot with a clearing saw vs. doing it by mechanical means. It must dollar up. What's the story on this occupation and is this ever done in the USA and, if not, why not? TIA, I find this topic very interesting! There is lots of equipment out there for this type of thing, it's quite dizzying!

Magicman · April 17, 2024, 08:30:33 AM

After it has been cleared, a walk-through with a sprayer filled with Triclopyr LINK would/could prevent re-infestation.

customsawyer · April 17, 2024, 09:25:40 AM

I've done it with the bush saws here in GA. I was doing what is called a pre commercial thinning of natural regeneration pines. Where they come in way to thick, so you thin them out to proper spacing to release them. On hardwood you could just get a back pack sprayer and spray the trees you don't want. There is several different chemicals you can use for this. You will want to watch for drift so it don't get on the leave trees.

beenthere · April 17, 2024, 11:51:49 AM

I hear your plight there, livemusic.

I have the TurboSaw that goes on the 3pt hitch of my 32 hp tractor. Works well for tree diameter up to 11", but also works well on cut-off larger stumps (planing off 1/2" at a time, back and forth, dirt no problem).

rusticretreater · April 17, 2024, 12:09:15 PM

If the woods are fairly thick, a person with a saw is much more maneuverable than machinery. Both have their place. Then there are the attachments; turbo saw, tree puller and the like. Some folks drive a bush hog through on occasion. For small areas I've even used my lawn tractor.

SwampDonkey · April 17, 2024, 05:33:50 PM

We have a government funded silviculture program that includes pre-commercial thinning of natural and plantation cleaning on public land and private woodlots. We also have a couple mills that pay for it on their Freehold land (Mill ground). I've cut 3.9 acres this week already. I'm on a 20 acre block and I'm chewing through the bushes.

customsawyer · April 18, 2024, 05:45:52 AM

I think back to how hard of work that was when I was young. I don't know if it would be a good financial decision to hire me to do it now. You could probably hire an excavator cheaper than you could me on a brush saw.

Ianab · April 18, 2024, 06:06:48 AM

I'd ask how much of an issue 1" sapling are going to be with larger (4"+) trees already becoming dominant. A lot of them are going to get shaded and naturally die. Meanwhile they are encouraging your final trees to shed lower branches and grow upwards. Too much thinning risks short wide (open grown) trees.

Aesthetics is a whole other subject, and if you want a forest to look like a Park, that's going to take work. Sure you can do it, but you are fighting nature to maintain it.

SwampDonkey · April 18, 2024, 06:08:16 AM

They have tried using mini excavators with saws on them. The production was lower and too much damage to trees you want left. We have to cut any whips in around the trees. I think the Irvings are testing some new contraption. The reason is fewer guys are willing to work as hard. I know one crew that is hand cutting with clearing saws, but they are getting the light ground and the rate is low. They would have to cut 2-1/2 times as much ground to get what I'm paid. On light ground that I have cut, I get more money, some is like open pasture. Now if you have a block that is dog hair thick, which they don't cut, you've got to make a lot more steam to cover your cheque for the week. Usually what hits you about then is a saw break down. I have 2 spare saws.

SwampDonkey · April 18, 2024, 06:14:02 AM

If timing is right, mostly what suckers is fodder for hares, deer and moose. Most will die off once the canopy closes back up. There is the initial burst of growth off suckering because the roots are established and then quickly diminishes. If you cut the softwoods below the green whorls, they don't come back. If it is cedar your cutting, any green at all on the stump will grow a tree. White cedar is very shade tolerant. On some of my second thinning, this time with chainsaw, the aspens suckers mostly wither at the tips like a blight, the wildlife eat a lot of them.

livemusic · April 18, 2024, 09:03:37 AM

Quote from: Ianab on April 18, 2024, 06:06:48 AMI'd ask how much of an issue 1" sapling are going to be with larger (4"+) trees already becoming dominant. A lot of them are going to get shaded and naturally die. Meanwhile they are encouraging your final trees to shed lower branches and grow upwards. Too much thinning risks short wide (open grown) trees.

Aesthetics is a whole other subject, and if you want a forest to look like a Park, that's going to take work. Sure you can do it, but you are fighting nature to maintain it.

Yes, you are right. Aesthetics is a main part of my goal. If nothing else, around the trails. It's nice to hike or ride the trails. Another reason for clearing brush and small saplings is to make more of the entire tract accessible to drive a John Deere Gator, ATV or tractor to a large, dead firewood tree or blowdown. I leave some dead ones for wildlife but also process some for firewood and I have to get to them!

OTOH, I have often pondered of late that all of this is futile without someone doing this permanently, because as you say "you are fighting nature." Like, 'what's the point!' To 'solve' this, I have wondered about turning this into a nature preserve of some sort but then, who, in posterity, would maintain this tract? I'm not sure anyone would 'care' as much as I do. Because it is hard, physical work. So, for now, I continue because it makes me happy. For now, lol. As I get older (and I am 70), this will be a problem! I am active now but that can/will change.

I have actually considered leaving this to a university. My brother manages something like this as a research station but I fear that my land might not be 'enough' acreage. I will say, though, that my tract is quite nice aesthetically. I've built nice trails and it's 98% hardwood with interesting diversity, which is rare around here.

moodnacreek · April 18, 2024, 09:04:10 AM

I clear old fields as a hobby. If you can drive a 4 wheel drive tractor and the rocks are not too bad it is almost fun. Stuff bigger than 2" gets cut low by hand and pushed up or just run over with a bush hog. After continuous bush hog mowing for a few years I switch to a sickle bar. The little 20 hp 4x4 / 5' bush hog has a loader with 2 2' forks on the bucket. Although I have other and larger machines this little rig and patience does wonders. Same for the 12 hp Cubs with side mount sickle bars around the rocks if you maintain them.

beenthere · April 18, 2024, 12:23:12 PM

livemusic
I'm still doing this clearing/maintaining my trails and enjoying them at age 85. 70 was a looong time ago. I hopped out of the Gator a lot faster back then than I do now, but still enjoy playing the game and the trails.

The best tool I think that I use on the trails is my Stihl battery-power pole saw HTA-65. It is 7' long and can reach out a good ways, or just stay tucked close for easy carry.

livemusic · April 18, 2024, 12:32:18 PM

Quote from: moodnacreek on April 18, 2024, 09:04:10 AMI clear old fields as a hobby. If you can drive a 4 wheel drive tractor and the rocks are not too bad it is almost fun. Stuff bigger than 2" gets cut low by hand and pushed up or just run over with a bush hog. After continuous bush hog mowing for a few years I switch to a sickle bar. The little 20 hp 4x4 / 5' bush hog has a loader with 2 2' forks on the bucket. Although I have other and larger machines this little rig and patience does wonders. Same for the 12 hp Cubs with side mount sickle bars around the rocks if you maintain them.

I have not considered old fields but I have wondered about doing this type of thing for others with woodlots. Because I like being in the woods and it's cool to see other tracts. Don't know if there is a demand for this but maybe so. However, I have a lot to do on my own!

I have also considered a very small tractor with some kind of attachment due to the advantage of being small and maneuverable. My tractor is 50hp.

livemusic · April 18, 2024, 12:42:40 PM

Quote from: beenthere on April 18, 2024, 12:23:12 PMlivemusic
I'm still doing this clearing/maintaining my trails and enjoying them at age 85. 70 was a looong time ago. I hopped out of the Gator a lot faster back then than I do now, but still enjoy playing the game and the trails.

The best tool I think that I use on the trails is my Stihl battery-power pole saw HTA-65. It is 7' long and can reach out a good ways, or just stay tucked close for easy carry.

WOW, you're my hero, lol! My brother plays golf with a bunch of 80-somethings. He is a kid at 65. I hope I'm alive at 85!

I have a Milwaukee battery polesaw, used it just yesterday. My 94 year old neighbor had an apple tree that split and I cleaned it up and then she has an umbrella tree, whatever that is, and she wanted it topped to keep it from growing taller. I also have a hedge trimmer attachment for it and use it on trails.

I also used the polesaw a few days ago on some wicked thorny water locust trees on the edge of my pasture and that is going to be quite a project by itself. I finally decided they have to go and I called the forestry service to get herbicide recommendation. I try not to use herbicide, ever, but I am making the exception here, they have to go. My thinking at this time is to girdle them and apply herbicide to that, let 'em stand until the bark and thorns (hopefully) fall off, then fell them where they stand and push them into a pile and burn. Then rake and burn if I can until I don't see any thorns. When I was a kid we used to get lots of tractor flats from these thorns. I wish my locust were thornless, they are attractive trees otherwise. I don't like flat tires! Or punctured feet.

Magicman · April 18, 2024, 01:20:57 PM

Honey Locust has to be my most "un-favorite" tree species. True, I hates Sweetgum but a Sweetgum ball never gave me a flat tire.

livemusic · April 18, 2024, 02:02:53 PM

Quote from: Magicman on April 18, 2024, 01:20:57 PMHoney Locust has to be my most "un-favorite" tree species. True, I hates Sweetgum but a Sweetgum ball never gave me a flat tire.

Yep. I understand that there is a cultivar of honey locust that is thornless and has been planted as landscape trees in some areas. Just yard trees, I suppose. Guys I know who are in the know scramble to get those for firewood if they are felled for whatever reason. Terrific, super-hot burning firewood. And, even the ones with terrible thorns, get rid of those and they make the same, great firewood.

thecfarm · April 18, 2024, 05:34:01 PM

I've been maintaining old fields for more then 40 years. Claiming back old pasture the same amount of time. Just remember the more you clear, the more you have to keep clear.
I do all mine with a chainsaw, because that is what I have. Some places I even used a push lawn mower to keep down the bushes. I found that works the best. I can get around all the leave trees and rocks much easier then when I am on a tractor. My ground is uneven. I do have a bush hog, but one side can be digging into the ground the other side up in the air a foot.
Then I have to go back and cut the stumps down again because the ground settles around the stumps.

moodnacreek · April 18, 2024, 07:21:09 PM

The Farm: Never herd anyone say the ground settles around the cut stumps but in sure does. It pains Me to see the old fields someone worked so hard to clear grow back, must be the way I was brought up. Pretty soon I will be back cutting and mowing on the land we bought last year up north, can't wait.

SwampDonkey · April 19, 2024, 02:34:10 PM

No end of such work if you're looking for it, that is for sure. Been thousands of acres of cleared land grow up over the last 150 years around here. A lot was just small fields, everyone cleared at least their 10 acres to get the other 90. Kinda like the rail road days, 1000 acres given for every mile of track. Then some lines were abandoned and the land sold off to mills for next to nothing.