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Mini excavator purchase???

Started by Hooterspfld, April 28, 2020, 09:21:13 PM

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Hooterspfld

I apologize if this is the wrong area for this thread. I'm looking into buying a cheap used mini excavator. I'm looking at a Case CX27B ZTS Mini Excavator. I found a 2011 with 1300ish hours for $16000K. I have immediate need for one, and my local option is to rent for $250/day. Beyond that, I have at least 2 weeks worth of jobs that in the near future need to be done at my house. The Mini is located about 6 hours away at a dealership where it was a trade in. There's a second mini, that would be a second choice I can check out on the way home, but still 4 hours away.

I have so many questions as this represents area's that I'm not familiar with, but I have extensive construction experience, however rudimentary in excavation and diesel/hydraulic systems.
I will be out of work for the first time in 21 years come the first of July, so this seems like an opportunity to get a job done affordably and possibly merge into future business opportunities.  
Any advice or inspiration would be appreciated! 

Thanks, Adam

BargeMonkey

 All what you plan on doing with it and how your going to move it. A 27-35 size machine is way too small unless your fitting thru narrow gates or digging in tight yards. Price sounds high for a 9yr old machine, one of my firewood customers just got a 50D Deere, cab, thumb, blade, 2800hrs for 24k. The market is saturated with them, just want to watch certain models or the older grey market machines. 

Hooterspfld

Thanks @BargeMonkey  for the response. I've been looking local and not having much luck. I'm in SW Missouri and there's not a big use for them local. I think OK where the one I'm looking at is a little better because of oil drilling... Seen a few in Arkansas that are better then local prices. I watched an auction in ST. Louis this past week with 4 JD 35's that went from 20K - 24k plus sales tax and 10% buyers premium. They were 2013 models, but all with 2k-3k hours. They had 2 50's that went for 26K and 33K plus premiums and taxes. Honestly the size is what I think might give me a niche ability. Small jobs, backyards, stuff where I'm not putting myself out of my comfort zone. Cheapest I've seen is, $85/hour on craigslist, but figure I know some contractors that might use me for small jobs, along with small local jobs from facebook or craigslist. (above all, the size is plenty big enough for the jobs I need to complete personally) 

Hooterspfld

Plus I'll be pulling with a F150 with V-8 and towing package, but I'm looking at the top of my ability to tow. Locally, not too worried, but 6 hour drive don't want to get too crazy.

BargeMonkey

I would compare and shop around machinerytrader before I jumped on anything, especially if your willing to drive 6-12hrs. 1/2 ton truck by ,"southern trucking laws" should be good to move a 80-120class excavator 😂, theres your sign.... saw that on FB. 

  


Hooterspfld

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Hope it was all flat headed home!

Iwawoodwork

If not already considering I definitely would not purchase one without a thumb and blade and pulling with a 150 size truck puts you 7-8000 lb machine weight.

stavebuyer

I am not an excavator guy but I have never been a big fan of "buy it" and the business will follow line of thinking unless you have the funds and were going buy whatever it was anyway. What may have been a good business 6 weeks ago may be falling flat today and you will be competing for work with people already in debt prior to the pandemic. If you already had a machine and then got layed-off then you wouldn't be risking as much.

I would recommend renting until the work justifies buying even if it means your working for free: it will be a cheap education. Taxes, insurance , repairs, upgrades to your truck and trailer will quickly eat much of "savings" over owing. Get familiar with the capabilities of several rental brands/sizes/features and be aware no one machine will be the right fit for every job. Number one rule of business is conserve your CASH. Best of luck in whatever direction you go.

nativewolf

Stavebuyer has it right!  The oil economy is getting ready to shed jobs and OK and TX are going to see a flood of this sort of machine I would think.  You have described the perfect need for a rental.  If it works and you can drum up some business than fine, maybe then you'd have some numbers to consider.  Until then, get a weekly rental rate and bargin a bit.  In fact for this immediate need maybe just hire someone and watch them.  

Liking Walnut

Crusarius

Alot of times you can rent the unit then purchase it and some of your rental fee will actually go towards the purchase of the unit. Look into that. If the rental place is not willing to do that, try another one.

snowstorm

i say its to small. at least a 5 ton machine then a skid steer trailer and a f550 to pull it. some of us did the same thing you want to do. i quit my job turning wrenches in 1977 and went on my own. it wasnt always easy. i am impressed you want to try

PoginyHill

Quote from: BargeMonkey on April 28, 2020, 11:08:03 PM
I would compare and shop around machinerytrader before I jumped on anything, especially if your willing to drive 6-12hrs. 1/2 ton truck by ,"southern trucking laws" should be good to move a 80-120class excavator 😂, theres your sign.... saw that on FB.

 


Machinerytrader.com is a great resource. You can get a very good idea of what you should pay for a certain piece of equipment. You may find a good enough deal a distance away where it makes sense to have it shipped to you. I've negotiated delivery as part of the purchase price rather than dicker with the price itself.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

tawilson

I'd rather take what I would have spent on a used machine and put it down on a brand new Kubota with 0% interest on the balance. Which is what I did.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter
Woodmaster 725

peakbagger

Of course there are alternatives in that price range. I picked up an ex military FLU419 SEE (Special Emplacement Excavator) rubber tired loader excavator a few years ago. Its got a case backhoe on the back and loader out front, It can run equipment plates in NH so no need to haul it. It also has the capability to run hydraulic hand tools like rock drills and jackhammers but I haven't used that aspect. One bummer is no thumb. 

The trade off is its complex machine with zero dealer support. Its Mercedes Unimog chassis so it is built rugged but when it breaks you either fix it yourself or sell it. There are plenty of military repair manuals on line for free but it comes down to you need to get your hands dirty. The nice thing with most of the SEEs was the military bought them for war that didn't happen so they just sat in storage for years. Mine had 400 miles on the odometer and 40 hours on the engine. It was basically barely broke in but the years in storage was hard on the hoses and there are lots of hoses. 

Note, there are a lot of optimists on Ebay trying to sell these rigs on occasion for big bucks. Few ever sell for the price they are asking. Take a look at the completed listings versus the sold listings. 

luap

A year ago my son and I were looking for a mini excavator. We rented a machine for a week to see if it was practical for our job . Two parcels of woods totaling 200 acres that needed atv trails and some brush clearing, trail drainage. The week rental equates to 40 hrs of run time. We ended up buying a low hour used machine from a local dealer. I saw attractive prices in the areas that were doing pipeline work, but too far away from home. I know I paid a little more from the dealer but I had peace of mind knowing the maintenance and ownership history.(not a stolen machine)  It's worked well for us and it has all the options , thumb, enclosed cab, heat, air, 6 way blade, two buckets. Our properties are three miles apart and we get by with a half ton truck but  its not ideal. The base specs says it weighs 8500 but I know it is closer to 10k with all the options. We only move it once for the time my son can be here other wise it stays at my place. Looking at ads it seems 5000 hrs is undercarriage replacement time and tracks can be less hrs depending if it was used in rocky ground. Loose pins and bushings on the bucket depends on  how well it was greased by the owner operator. We bought ours to work it, not to have to work on it so that raises the selling price. It made sense for me to pay the cash as from this point I will just be giving it to a nursing home otherwise. How you finance  or not has to be what works for you.  

pine

Years ago I needed some forestry mastication work done and none of the folks I knew could get to it for nearly a year out.  Rented a machine from Cat for a week (40 hours use time)  After that my wife convinced me to buy a machine (not a Cat, the rental convinced me of that) and I have never looked back.  For the rental costs involved and the time I would need the machine it was just not economical to rent for what we needed.  Those costs would have escalated my out of pocket expenses through the roof.  Yes I had payments on a new machine but they were less than the rental costs.  A lot less over time.  The idea was we could buy it, use it, and then sell it and still be money ahead, lots of money ahead by our calculations. 
Well years have past and the plan and calculations have been even better than we had thought they would be.  I was also convinced by two other foresters to start my own company offering services to others needing the type of service that I originally was looking for and unable to get from other in the business.

Times have changed yes but not the quality of workmanship you can find out there.  Many folks still trying to sell a pig in a poke. 

Rentals work well for short term one of a kind problems.  But when the hours start to escalate rentals fall by the way side.  Think of it like leasing a car.  It is a good plan if you normally trade your car in every year or so for the newest model.  If you buy and keep the car then leasing is a horrible plan.  I would go broke leasing a car/truck.  I would go broke renting or leasing heavy equipment in my business. 

It works for many in the trades because of their business plan.  You have to evaluate your needs and evaluate what is right for you.

Hooterspfld

The main reason that I am in need of an excavator is my house is built into a hill. The plan is to tier the backyard and add drain lines running from the retaining wall to the street in front of the house. Retaining wall will require a footing around 75' long and drain lines will add 250' of trench including tying in all the down spouts. In theory this should eliminate the standing water that makes our backyard a mud pit with even the smallest rain. (2 large dogs do not help the situation) This is mostly cosmetic work, but eliminate minor water issues in the finished basement.

I also have a brick retaining wall that is attached to the front of the house that is probably 5 feet high and 8 feet long. it hold back the slope of the ground but has no way to drain the water that presses against it during a rain. As such it is starting to push away from the house and is actually causing damage to the brick facade. (This is something that has to be fixed, in the near future)

All that being said, I have a hard time spending $4k in rental fees, when I can purchase the machine for $15-16K. I actually found the machine on MachineryTrader, and in the area I'm willing to travel, it seems like the best buy around. Here's the machine in question.

 

luap

I make no claims to being an operator but have learned a lot by watching lets dig 18 on you tube and also youtuber Andrew Camarata has  a video discussing mechanical thumbs and adds one to one of his machines. There are two patterns for hydraulic control functions and on my Kubota can be switched with a lever. If your operating experience is like mine that is something to learn about your machine. Also my hydraulic pressures are adjustable by the operator so I suggest you get a manual if you don't have one.

alan gage

I'd also recommend renting to start with. If nothing else just to be sure of the size you need. I've rented both a 6000 and 8000 pound mini and while they both did the job the 8000 pound did it better and more comfortably. I could certainly tell a difference. But it definitely had its limitations too.

$250/day for rental doesn't sound like a bad price but don't they give you a full week/month discount? It sounds like anticipate having it for quite a while if you think you'll have $4k in rental fees.

I know for me personally I'd love to have a mini but I don't have enough personal use to justify it and I can rent one over the weekend for under $300 so I just try to get my ducks in a row and get it all done over one weekend. I only need it a couple times/year at most.

I know rental expense seems like a waste of money if you end up buying one anyway but you could also waste a lot of money by not renting if you buy the wrong thing.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

tawilson

You need a thumb.  Especially with the project you are getting into. And a 8' I-beam to pick up with it for grading purposes.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter
Woodmaster 725

mike_belben

In another month youll be able to get someone to bring their mini and trencher to your house and do the job for $4k. 

Hold onto your pennies, it may be a bumpy quarter coming.
Praise The Lord

Iwawoodwork

If your back hillside has any rocks in it you will struggle without a thumb. My first excavator is a komatsu pc60 without a thumb and my place is 6.3 ac of rocky hillside.  I have lost hold of several rocks that went down the hillside and damaged vehicles. so if you have a choice a thumb is a wise purchase.

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Iwawoodwork on April 30, 2020, 12:01:17 AM
If your back hillside has any rocks in it you will struggle without a thumb. My first excavator is a komatsu pc60 without a thumb and my place is 6.3 ac of rocky hillside.  I have lost hold of several rocks that went down the hillside and damaged vehicles. so if you have a choice a thumb is a wise purchase.
Absolutely a thumb is super versatile 

tacks Y

Have you looked on face book market place? I was looking for a grapple bucket found a saw mill and no wife is not happy. I rent a dozer to build a pond, 2 weeks and not done. Rented for 2 more weeks to finish 4k worth. When I went to add on I bought one and a pan a better idea IMO. If you are able to work on it?

Hooterspfld

Well, I'm leaning further and further towards making the purchase. This one does not have a thumb, but for the initial jobs I'm needing it for, I'm not sure that will be big a deal. I was looking and can probably add one on later for $1200 if I end up keeping it. (I do like the I beam as a grading tool idea. Just happen to have a neighbor with one thats rusting on the ground next to his house) I also have a buddy that happens to live where the excavator is, and he's willing to go take a look at it for me and facetime me, so I can get a better idea before making the trip! I've got a call into the dealership, just waiting on a call back!

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