Timberjack 230D

[WhitePineJunky]

I was looking at a timberjack with a 3-53 Detroit in it, a couple issues that alarmed me was the guy said even in warm weather he gives it a small spray of ether after cranking to get it going, a sign of end of line for the motor?

also on the flywheel there must be some stripped teeth as every odd time trying to crank it, it doesn’t engage, is the flywheel a difficult job to replace on these rigs?
Other than that it seemed to work fine, didn’t smoke a ton or lack any power
Thanks

[GRANITEstateMP]

Could also be the starter with the engagement problem.  You may need to customize a wrench or two the first time you change it

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Should not always need ether.  I have a 353 in my Timberjack and it only needs a squirt on the coldest days.     I'd look at the battery's.   May not have the cranking power needed. Also I'd go ahead  and have the starter rebuilt.   Bet that solves the problem.  

Mine was a hard starter when I bought it. Rebuilt the starter and bought some new battery's and now it starts instantly unless its really  cold.

[Southside]

An ever so slight fuel leak so she looses partial prime will cause that too.

[WhitePineJunky]

Thanks fellas. Some things to look into. The guy said he recently put a new starter and solenoid in possibly wasn't done properly. When it did catch though the 2nd or third crank it fired right up 

[barbender]

So the starter was spinning, but wouldn't always catch and crank? That just sounds like something is sticky in the bendix (I think that's what it is called). If it was missing teeth on the flywheel, I would think the only way you'd get the starter to engage again is turn the engine over a bit by hand. And yes, those old TJ's with a 3-53 suck to get the starter off of.

[barbender]

Oh, as far as the ether. On a Detroit that's kinda like having a hard working guy on the crew that has to have a smoke in the morning before he gets rolling  My Detroit is pretty tight. It needs a sniff when it's cold, but not in warm temps. I've been around others that needed a sniff no matter what, but other than that they had no issues. If it runs great, has good power, and doesn't burn oil excessively I wouldn't be too concerned.

[Southside]

Hopefully the starter nose cone wasn't timed wrong when it was assembled assuming it's a rebuild.  Been there done that on an IH tractor.  There were something like 26 positions it could be in and I got it right on the 26th try.  Had I gone the other direction at first I would have had it the first time.  Needless to say I became an expert on removing and re-installing that starter.  

[B.C.C. Lapp]

, those old TJ's with a 3-53 suck to get the starter off of.

First two bolts is easy, the last one will be a total female dog.   Last time I rebuilt my starter I left the third bolt out. Life is short. Ill risk it.

[Southside]

Oh and anytime you need to replace one gear reduction starters are your friend.  More expensive, but so much easier to install and they spin so fast it isn't funny.  That's all I will go with now when I replace a starter.  

[WhitePineJunky]

It does make sense now that mentioned if the flywheel was missing teeth it would probably get "stuck" on that spot, as the next time you hit the starter it catches which indicates there is teeth it's catching, so most likely is the starter "bendix" or timing 

[WhitePineJunky]

I believe it's getting delivered sometime this week, I'm gonna work it for a couple weeks as I got some felled trees to clean up from what I cut that got scorched by the fire, need them gone for the new seedlings, then I'm going to dig into it and see what I oughta find 

[GRANITEstateMP]

I couldn't like Sothsides comment about the hi-torque or B.C.C. Lapp's about not putting that 1 devil bolt in enough times, each are spot on!  I think 1 of the bolts holding our 353 starter in the ole 230D is like an oversized header bolt. Its the right size, but has a smaller, 12 point head on it...it helps...a bit...kinda

[WhitePineJunky]

So the starter was spinning, but wouldn't always catch and crank? That just sounds like something is sticky in the bendix (I think that's what it is called). If it was missing teeth on the flywheel, I would think the only way you'd get the starter to engage again is turn the engine over a bit by hand. And yes, those old TJ's with a 3-53 suck to get the starter off of.

To clarify yes it would spin but also make a sound like when you grind gears shifting a standard car sort of 

[Corley5]

I remember something about switching my 3-53 12 point starter bolts out to Allen head bolts and then using a ball end Allen socket with a wobble extension. That made life easier as I remember... That was a while ago  ;) Did that on my 132 Franklin and the Dyna Hoe. The engines were mirror images. I thought about swapping the Dyna Hoe's engine into the forwarder but only briefly.  ;)

[WhitePineJunky]

 

 Well it was a crap show when the float driver got the skidder here, he went off into the ditch backing up, I had to back the skidder off with the trailer slanted in the ditch which was sketchy as hell,  but something had to be done as he was stuck and the truck blocking the road with a line up of cars. Once I backed off the trailer with a 10/10 pucker factor, I had to help push him out with the front blade. 
But it's here now I guess

[OH logger]

Well that's good at least now you know it can push a truck!!!

[Andries]

. . . and you now know that the 10/10 pucker factor was real, but you hadn't reached the "tipped it over point".
You jumped into the deep end of the pool ten minutes after delivery and got a high pressure education in the deal.
👍

[nativewolf]

Bravo!  You got it off, you pushed him out.  That's a good start to skidder ownership.

[barbender]

That's a nice looking machine, it looks well cared for 👍

[WhitePineJunky]

That's a nice looking machine, it looks well cared for 👍

It's been used that's for sure. Will need some work but it does run decent 

[tacks Y]

Looks nice and Eaton axles.

[WhitePineJunky]

Looks nice and Eaton axles.

Eating axles and Hercules winch 

[WhitePineJunky]

Ran it for a few hours this morning, getting the hang of it. Things I want to get fixed:
Fix the loose linkages in the range selector, and gear selector
-the front diff slowly seeps gear oil from the bottom of the case cover
-engine oil leak from which area I’m not entirely sure but a oil pain gasket came with it so that’ll be my first area of interest
-here have been some repair welds on the skid plates and in areas the repair welds have cracked.
-it leaks tranny fluid slightly but I’m not sure from where exactly I just seen it on the skid pan
It started up at 10c this morning bo ether, 2-3 cranks. Everything’s operational but the listed above does annoy me as I don’t like fluids going into my ground

[Corley5]

A Detroit that doesn't leak oil doesn't have oil in it to leak  ;D

[WhitePineJunky]

A Detroit that doesn't leak oil doesn't have oil in it to leak  ;D

But the oil going into the soil :( 
I get all hot and bothered by that. I have read a lot on these machines and are known to leak oil

[barbender]

That can be dried up. I have one of the rare 3-53's that doesn't leak any oil. I don't know what was done to it, it was like that when I bought it🤷😊

[mudfarmer]

Can't blame you for wanting to dry it up, oil isn't cheap and nobody wants it in the ground or the water.

FWIW I've been working under contracts that explicitly forbid visibly leaking equipment and would expect that to become common place

[WhitePineJunky]

The only leak that's really bothering me is the engine oil leak, the others are not that leaky, drip every couple mins but the engine oil leaks a drip every couple seconds. I need to have a certain area prepped for seedlings so I might just cut up some old towels into oil rags and jam them up in the oil pan cover plate or bungie them lol 
Il have a ton of oily rags to through out but I really need a couple acres finished by September

[WhitePineJunky]

Is a dent like this in the front diff bowl a cause for concern? It runs so I assume not, might lower the oil capacity lol 



 

[WhitePineJunky]

What was/is this pulley for that's not hooked up? 



 

[Southside]

BB, any chance the old farmer/leaking gear box trick was used? Fill it with grease instead of oil?  :D

[nativewolf]

The only leak that's really bothering me is the engine oil leak, the others are not that leaky, drip every couple mins but the engine oil leaks a drip every couple seconds. I need to have a certain area prepped for seedlings so I might just cut up some old towels into oil rags and jam them up in the oil pan cover plate or bungie them lol
Il have a ton of oily rags to through out but I really need a couple acres finished by September

Rags are fine but if they don't hold some PIG mats might be helpful (though pricey).   

[nativewolf]

A Detroit that doesn't leak oil doesn't have oil in it to leak  ;D

But the oil going into the soil :(
I get all hot and bothered by that. I have read a lot on these machines and are known to leak oil

I am about as green (tree hugger sort) as much as anyone but ...if you own a piece of forestry machinery you will spill some oil...sometimes a whole lot.  I appreciate and support your effort to track down the leaks... once you've ripped the hoses on a Ponsse Bear harvesting head and seen 20 gallons go whoosh in a sec...well you haven't really been logging (ask us how we know  :D) ..at least that is what I tell my Dad.

[WhitePineJunky]

A Detroit that doesn't leak oil doesn't have oil in it to leak  ;D

But the oil going into the soil :(
I get all hot and bothered by that. I have read a lot on these machines and are known to leak oil

I am about as green (tree hugger sort) as much as anyone but ...if you own a piece of forestry machinery you will spill some oil...sometimes a whole lot.  I appreciate and support your effort to track down the leaks... once you've ripped the hoses on a Ponsse Bear harvesting head and seen 20 gallons go whoosh in a sec...well you haven't really been logging (ask us how we know  :D) ..at least that is what I tell my Dad.

Gotta do my best for my land and the area I'm skidding from is where I've been planning to put a house for a couple years now, definitely don't want oil in that area

[barbender]

 "The solution to pollution, is dilution"

 I don't like intentionally spilling oil on the ground, but I'm with NW. Get in some modern logging equipment and you will quickly have to re-evaluate your attitude towards oil spills. Thankfully, all of my incidents were under 5 gallons😁

[C5C Tree Farmer]

What was/is this pulley for that's not hooked up?

The two large pulleys on the front of the engine have offset weights on the backsides and serve as the engine balancer. These engines were used in a wide variety of applications. Depending on the belt driven accessories of a given application some pulley grooves were used while others were not.

[chet]

Referring back to infamous starter bolt. My first encounter was a 453 in a Franklin. Wife went with me on a Sunday to try to get that last bolt out. Frustrated as nothing I tried would work,  I resorted to taking the rear view mirror off her beloved '77 T-Bird ta see why. DA WIFE WAS NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.   :D      Since that first encounter all reinstalls have used Corley5's fix.

[Corley5]

 Once upon a time I blew one of the 3/4" 4 wire hoses on the house swing motor on my Fabtek harvester. The 60 gallon hydraulic reservoir was empty before I knew what happened.

[GRANITEstateMP]

sometimes you can find that single Detroit starter bolt on ebay. They fetch a high price because of all the blood, sweat, tears, and homemade wrenches they take to get out :D

Whoever mentioned the gear reduction starter is spot on. Buy a new one, they are smaller and spin faster. Use you old starter as a paper weight!

The PIG mats nativewolf talks about are excellent. We have them in our spill kits at work. I would advise against rags or paper towels stuffed in or around the engine area. Too easy to catch on fire, and thats too nice of a machine to go out like that

[mudfarmer]

Snagging a hydro line is an accident, knowing your engine is losing oil pretty fast the entire time you are running it is deliberate and different you can also get bio hydraulic oil so when you lose 60gal it isn't as bad, and I don't think there are concerns about carcinogens in hydraulic oil like there are in used engine oil.

[WhitePineJunky]

sometimes you can find that single Detroit starter bolt on ebay. They fetch a high price because of all the blood, sweat, tears, and homemade wrenches they take to get out :D

Whoever mentioned the gear reduction starter is spot on. Buy a new one, they are smaller and spin faster. Use you old starter as a paper weight!

The PIG mats nativewolf talks about are excellent. We have them in our spill kits at work. I would advise against rags or paper towels stuffed in or around the engine area. Too easy to catch on fire, and thats too nice of a machine to go out like that

Well I just got done running it for 4 hours the rags worked, the fire hazard was in my mind, but they were down on the oil pan so I was less worried. I'm getting the hang of it but I gotta remember the dozer blade UP(it's my parking brake) before I try to  take off after choking some logs lol. 

[barbender]

That's the same parking brake I have👍

[WhitePineJunky]

That's the same parking brake I have👍

Really impressive how much that blade can push. Will push fresh stumps right out 

[WhitePineJunky]

 

 

[mudfarmer]

Nice! Looking good  8)

[WhitePineJunky]

Rotella t5 15w-40 for engine oil ? Going out to get some supplies and grease 

[tacks Y]

Most will say straight weight 40 or 30 in the winter.

[Plankton]

Id stick with straight 30 or 40 wieght. At least in my area its the same price if not a little cheaper and just as easy to find. I run rotella t1 sae 30 year round in mine.

[barbender]

 From all the digging that I've done on the subject, the big issue for Detroit 2 stroke oils is that they are low ash content. I don't remember what the newest diesel oil rating is (JF maybe?) but they have to be low ash now as well, so they don't plug catalytic converters and DPF's on new diesel emission systems. I have low ash 15-40 in my 3-53 right now, I think I'll put 5w40 synthetic in it at next change. I'm no expert and I could smoke my engine, so take what I say with a big grain of salt😊

[WhitePineJunky]

From all the digging that I've done on the subject, the big issue for Detroit 2 stroke oils is that they are low ash content. I don't remember what the newest diesel oil rating is (JF maybe?) but they have to be low ash now as well, so they don't plug catalytic converters and DPF's on new diesel emission systems. I have low ash 15-40 in my 3-53 right now, I think I'll put 5w40 synthetic in it at next change. I'm no expert and I could smoke my engine, so take what I say with a big grain of salt

I went with t5 15w 40 synthetic blend because that’s what the previous owner has in it. When I change it out completely I might switch over to 30 or 40 weight but I don’t know il do a bit more reading on it. So far I see lots of both answers amongst the internet of rotella 15/40 and straight weight oil

[47sawdust]

About that dented pumpkin...I thought they came that way from the factory.

[Walnut Beast]

Nice unit! Glad it's working out for you

[WhitePineJunky]

About that dented pumpkin...I thought they came that way from the factory.

Lol!

[WhitePineJunky]

I got farm truck/tractor grease is there any recommendations for the best grease to use or is farm truck grease 👍 
The dozer blade arm both sides wouldn't pump il try taking a propane torch to them heat them up before next time 

[C5C Tree Farmer]

From all the digging that I've done on the subject, the big issue for Detroit 2 stroke oils is that they are low ash content. 

I have a 92 series Detroit shop manual which has a section on engine lubrication where Detroit conceded that 15w-40 was OK to be used in the two strokes providing it met certain qualifications....low ash being one of them.
As a side note there was a period of time that the 92's and the 60 series engines were being manufactured at the same time.

[barbender]

 The only real answer I ever got from someone on why you shouldn't use multi-viscosity oils in a DD 2 stroke was a link to a study Detroit did with the various oils. They were having failures with 15-40, piston scoring and such, but iirc they were high ash content oils. I read somewhere else that some 5w40 synthetic would actually make the specs of a straight 40 oil because of its high temp viscosity. Again, I'm a long ways from an oil expert, but the ash content thing was what stuck out to me the most. It was nice to see some actual research and specifications instead of the often regurgitated "they don't like it"🙄 

 As for grease, the best grease I have readily available is Mystic #2 synthetic blend. I'm sure there may be better ones out there, but that is the best stuff I've used that I can run to town and get tomorrow. 

[WhitePineJunky]

Well found the coolant leak at the water pump? must be a gasket in there that needs replacing. Any good places online to get gaskets and parts from?


 
It’s coming between the red part connection and pump(I think it’s the pump anyway?)

[backwoodsdave]

Pretty sure that's your hydraulic pump, check the radiator above it for a leak.

[WhitePineJunky]

I wiped everything down then got it up temp and watched for any coolant, after a few minutes it dripped from that spot. Il get another look tomorrow

In the pic you can see the drip of green coolant there under it

[OntarioAl]

That's your hydraulic pump
The coolant is coming from the radiator
Cheers
Al

[WhitePineJunky]

Gotcha. Il try to poke around again tomorrow hope I can find the spot it's leaking 

[Plankton]

Harolds in maine is the place to go for timberjack and clark parks. Im sure theres other spots but those guys know there stuff.

[62oliver]

Check the easy stuff first. When I got my skidder it had a coolant leak too. Started tearing stuff off to get rad out, top rad hose clamp was just loose. Easiest fix ever.

[WhitePineJunky]

 

 

 

[WhitePineJunky]

It's working decent so far. My rag idea worked out for now it leaks about a half to full quart a day but the rags get the majority of it. I got a bag of rags made up from t shirts from frenchies for 8$ enough to last for the area I need skiddded asap