Is forestry a viable career anymore?

[BrandonTN]

To me, it seems the only way to fully use one's potential (ie, to "succeed") in a "career", is to have one's heart in the work. And for me, it's not about whether or not I'm currently on the payroll of a Forestry or Wildlife and Fisheries agency, or how much $ I'm making (ie, table scraps I'm being thrown from The Man) , but instead that am I spending my time working on what my heart is into.

So if you want to do it more than anything else, then do it.

[Texas Ranger]

Hard to get rid of a burro attitude.

[Phorester]

A 3 year old thread, but since it has been picked up again.....

"I see that no university faculty or extension people have picked up the gauntlet.  Why am I not surprised? "

Dont' be so smug.  None of these types have come to this forum, so the gauntlet will not get picked up.

[Phorester]

I agree JOEZ about Forester registration and licensing.  But in Virginia, the Foresters who want this can't get the legislature to pass it.

[ibseeker]

It would be interesting to hear from Wpayne. It's been 4 years.

Did he continue his pursuit of a career in forestry?

Did BCCrouch have a change of attitude?

Who's going to pick up the gauntlet?

What's happened in those fours years to the forestry professionals?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm curious. I recently had a encouter with a consulting forester. It was interesting and informative. I understand and appreciate the value of Consulting Forester's.

BrandonTN: You hit the nail on the head!

[wpayne]

It's hard to believe four years have passed since I posted this.  It's even harder to believe that this topic is still active.

I didn't complete my degree, forestry or otherwise.  I could rationalize several reasons for not finishing college but it boils down to my being a poor student.  I can work and give it my all when I have something tangible to achieve, but the tedium of college killed my motivation.  The fault there is my own.  Luckily, I had an my prior job skills to fall back on. 

I did learn quite a bit in my hiatus from the working world.  Most of it wasn't included in any text book and none of it is on my transcript.  My biggest turning point was realizing that I've enjoyed every job I've ever had when I worked with good people.  I've returned to the IT business and couldn't be (much) happier.  I still dream of walking timber in southeast Alaska every now and then but I plan to scratch that itch with an upcoming vacation.  I enjoy my work but I'm learning to pursue my interests after business hours, on weekends, and during vacations.  So far it's been an acceptable compromise.

[Tom]

Wpayne,
Giving it a shot is worth the effort.  You, at least, are able to get your priorities straight, and that is important in life.

One thing to remember and to look at every day is that you don't have to do just one thing.  You also don't have to do what you do all at once.

If you like forestry and want to be educated in it, do it.   Education in later years isn't like the hard-pressed schedules put upon teens and youth in their twenty's.   You have a job and know your path.  The schedule is yours.  If you want to take a course in anything, you can. Even if it doesn't lead to a degree.  The schools are full of interesting subjects from Botany to welding.  Many who hold degrees will think that you are a slackard without a sheepskin, but it's what you learn in life that is important.  Sometimes education like this leads to a degree and sometimes it doesn't, but you know that you know. 

I've run into many young professionals who look down their nose at me because I've sawed wood.  Little do they know my past.  It is amusing to watch them act so superior and know that I did their job in another life too. :D

There's a lot of education to be had outside of formal classes in a University too. 

Pick a course somewhere and take it.  You might just end up in Alaska, cruising trees after all.

[Riles]

I started my forestry degree at age 44. Absolutely loved it. No comparison to the other two times I was a college student. You excel at the things you enjoy.

I can't find a job because I moved away from the place with all my contacts and committed to living in this location where they're not hiring "beginners." So I continue to do things to improve my marketability. I've passed the NC registered forester's exam. I've taken four of the pesticide applicator certification exams. I'm still loving this.

[cantcutter]

I've run into many young professionals who look down their nose at me because I've sawed wood.  Little do they know my past.  It is amusing to watch them act so superior and know that I did their job in another life too. :D

Isn't that a great feeling? They look down on you and you can just sit back, grin and think "you sucker".

[Geoff Kegerreis]

It's hard to believe four years have passed since I posted this.  It's even harder to believe that this topic is still active.

I'm glad that it is, because eventually someone will have the same question and then they can read this thread, and maybe it will offer them some perspectives on this topic.

I still dream of walking timber in southeast Alaska every now and then but I plan to scratch that itch with an upcoming vacation.  I enjoy my work but I'm learning to pursue my interests after business hours, on weekends, and during vacations.  So far it's been an acceptable compromise.

...and THAT is what the majority of the population decides to do.  A forestry career is for someone who really wants to work in (and with) the forests and that's a primary goal that will not be compromised by mere mortal values such as money.  :D   





[/quote]

[BCCrouch]

The fall Michigan SAF conference at the Kellogg Center in East Lansing will (hopefully) address the meat of this thread with it's topic of "The Future of Forestry: Changing Roles of Foresters."  That's a tentative title, so don't hold me to it.

Yes, I'm still plugging away at my nursery work, producing trees & shrubs for discriminating buyers in SE Michigan at Bordines.  And, yes, I still snarl, but I'm now the Second Vice-Chair for the LP MSAF, so I do try to keep it to a nearly subsonic rumble...most of the time.

[pappy19]

Interesting thread. I graduated from Louisiana Tech with a double major of Forestry and Animal Science back in the late 1960's. Back then with the Vietnam War going on, there were more jobs than there were graduate foresters. Short story is that I worked for the Forest Service, Idaho Department of Lands and Idaho DEQ, mostly in private timber sales, administration and erosion control/stream protection. I finally got real tired of the bureaucracy and got a friend of mine to get me hired on a natural gas pipeline project assisting with permits and erosion control. From there I worked for an engineering firm acquiring easements for utility projects and settling damages, overseeing contractors in all types of construction issues and so forth. I believe that a forestry degree is one the best, if not the absolute best, degrees and backgrounds that a right of way agent can have. I have personally hired numerous forestry graduates as "junior" right of way agents. Young graduates just starting out in this field make 4-5 times what a graduate going into the woods will make. As a right of way agent, you will contact and work with all types of rural situations including alot of timber, woodlands, wetlands, farms and associated permitting situations. One thing I have never understood about the academic world is that there are no classes on how to be a good supervisor and what it takes to be one. All college graduates are aiming to become supervisors or managers. The good ones become good generally by accident or they have a good supervisor who showed them how to manage subordinates. Soon after I graduated, I was working on my master's and I taught a class of freshman foresters. I asked the class on the first day why they wanted to become foresters. Almost all of them said because they liked to hunt and fish and be in the woods. I told them if that was the case that they should change their major to banking or insurance as those graduates would have the most time and money to hunt and fish. I then outlined what a young forester would be doing for about 10 years and what kind of salary they could expect. I lost about half of my class over the months as on field days we went out in the woods and worked as foresters. I didn't softsoap any part of the field experience. Two fellow in my class transferred to Humbolt State as they both were heavy into high lead logging and I told them that HS was one of the best there was at the time. Now the present state of forestry and foresters is deplorable, both environmentally and job wise. True forest management is a thing of the past. Federal forests are an insect ridden mess of fire hazards with no means of modern management techniques. Private forests are being either split up into housing developments or high graded for timber, not much in between and not much in the way of management with a few exceptions. Basically the environmental movement of the 70's,80's and 90's was very successful and we will forever be behind the eight ball with forest management; not managing but facing one disaster after another and trying to manage them instead. Sorry for the rant-

[Riles]

Pappy, you might be happy to know that Tech still has a reputation for graduating "timber beasts." The environmentalists go to LSU for their forestry degrees.  All five of them.


Class of '07

[pappy19]

Riles-

That's good to know. Tech had a great forestry school with more field expertise than most forestry schools could offer. I almost went hard core to Paul Smith's, but at that time forest management was in it's heyday in the south. There were 7 mills of one kind or another within 30 miles of Ruston. We were macho peckerwood foresters. When I went west and got to the ponderosa pine and doug fir country, I was humbled for a while, big stuff. No mills left to take any of it now. Where I live in Idaho, Boise-Cascade had nearly 300,000 acres of managed timber lands. They shut down all of their mills and sold all of their timber lands. They blocked it up into 200-300 acres parcels and auctioned them all off. Most of the buyers then clear cut or high graded the timber to pay off the land and what's left is now being roaded and subdivided into small lots. It's a real shame.

[Phorester]

More of the same in my area.  According to the VA Forestry Association, 10 years ago there were about 1,000 sawmills in VA, now about 150.

Across the border in West VA, Westvaco has sold 10's of 1000's of acres of their timberlands.  From what I understand about all have been bought by developers. 

[BCCrouch]

*SNIP*

Sorry for the rant-

"There is not a truth existing that I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." ----Thomas Jefferson

Do not EVER apologize for speaking the truth.  Your former students were blessed with a forthright professor who did not shirk his fiduciary responsibility to the students and their parents who were likely footing the bill.  Would that the present cohort of Ivory Tower types were so honest...  :(

[SwampDonkey]

We don't get developers buying up woodland much here. Although, I do know of one fellow who is trying to sell old company lands in remote areas. He's pushing for fishing and hunting lodge potential. He's probably about 5 decades too late. I know a couple that were 10 years trying to sell their lodge on the Mirimachi R. Hard to sell those places when the forest is all harvested up to within 100 feet of the lakes and salmon rivers. What's left standing blows down from not being so wind firm is wetter soils.  : The fishing has changed a lot here in 30 years, which paralleled the increased harvest levels over those years. When you silt up those spawning streams you kill about 95% of the eggs. And only 1 in 8000 eggs survive in good spawn beds to begin with. Didn't matter about low survival of the eggs when you had thousands of fish in the pristine times, now when you have 100 fish returning you barely keep up with mortality rates. If all our adult salmon died after spawning like in the west, the Atlantic salmon would have been long gone by now.

[BCCrouch]

The Michigan SAF conference  coming up in October might shed a little light on this subject and if you're in the Great Lakes region or you know a young forester in the Great Lakes region, I'd strongly recommend attending.

[BCCrouch]

Particularly those of you consdering going back to school for a degree in forestry or any other natural resources program.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/03/05/student.loans/index.html

[Dezian]

Guys, I started studing forestry not even 2 months ago. Preciesly it's "protection of forest resources". Today our dean informed us, that we have to declare which specialization we choose: natural, or industrial. Choosing natural spec we will learn more about botany, species, trees diseases and how to protect trees from them etc. Choosing industrial spec we will be taught forest engineering, forest roads building and depths of reforestation. And here's my dilemma. My heart leans towards natural spec, but I must take into account the chances of finding a job after it. It seems to me that industrial might give me wider perspectives....

I will be thankful for every single one piece of advice 

[SwampDonkey]

Hmm, here in NB we have two Forestry Programs for undergrads. One is Forestry and the Environment and the other is Forest Engineering. Even the engineering course has some overlap including the way the forest grows, responds to disturbance and the species that grow there, including the moss.  Also the soil the trees grow best on and how to identify the soil. How can you apply a dividing line? Interesting.

[Dezian]

Well, I know too less about differences between these specializations. What our dean told us yesterday doesn't really help to make up my mind. I'll try to get more familiar with both specializations and later I'll share with you what I find out. It was said that "Protection of forest resources in natural conditions" predispose to work in reserve nad national parks, when "Protection of forest resources on industrial grounds" pushes us slightly towards private companies. I'm confused,and the worst thing is I don't really know what differences in teaching programme there are  : Hope in the evening I will know some more.

[Dezian]

I've been to dean's office, asked for more info about both specializations. Clearly, a lady sitting on front of me was very busy drinking her coffee, as she gave me a sheet of paper nad called "next"  ;)  Here are the exact differences in teaching programme,they begin with 2nd semester:

"Protection of forest resources in natural conditions" "Protection of forest resources on industrial grounds"

II semester
Botany

• lectures 20h
• indoor excercises 24h

Botany

• lectures 10h
• indoor excercises 10h

III semester
--------------Forest Reclamation

• lectures 13h
• indoor excercises 14h
• outdoor excercises 16h

IV semester
Forest Phytopatology

• indoor excercises 11h
• outdoor excercises 16h

Engineering Management of Forest

• indoor excercises 8h
• outdoor excercises 12h

Forest Phytopatology

• indoor excercises 9h
• outdoor excercises 6h

Engineering Management of Forest

• indoor excercises 18h
• outdoor excercises 12h

V semester
Environmental Protection

• indoor excercises 12h
• outdoor excercises 8h

Enviromental Protection

• lectures 4h
• indoor excercises16h
• outdoor excercises8h

Ecological Monitoring

• lectures 12h
• indoor excercises 10h
• outdoor excercises 8h

VI semester
Spatial Economy

• lectures 20h
• indoor excercises 10h

------------

VII semester
Landscape Formation & Conservation

• lectures 20h
• indoor excercises 20h

Legislation of Environmental Protection

• lectures 15h

Biology and Water Conservation

• lectures 30h

Sorry for looong post  ;) Now,it seems to me that "Industrial" specialization may give me more useful skills...but I don't know if I'm right.
On my diploma there will be no information about what specialization I've been thru.

[SwampDonkey]

If the program is accredited by your countries' accreditation body, then your employers will know. Here in Canada that body is the Canadian  Forestry Accreditation Board. One member of that board is the CIF (Canadian Institute of Forestry) who give you an insignia ring to wear. Other members are your Forestry Associations, the ones that register you as a professional forester. You will be called a Forester or Forest Engineer I am assuming. For example it will be designated as BSc. For.  or BSc FE , something like that possibly. As far as credit hours, Forestry has as many or more than most engineering degrees.

I lost my ring stacking firewood.  :  :D :D

[Dezian]

The die is cast - "Forestry on industrial grounds" will be my specialization. Honestly, I'm not expecting the difference between specializations to be large...still they say it will be substantial. Time will show.