quartersawing with a swinger

[donny hochstetler]

Hi guys ,   I"m snowed in for the time being and have some time to play.  I was wondering if anybody does quart. sawing  . I was thinking of sawing whiteoak, I think I understand how its done, would it work to break the log down with the swinger, then slice the quarters with a band resaw, seems this would make less sawdust, and speed up the process, also how big should a log be to be worth quartersawing, how much waste can be expected? also does anybody have any idea what this is per bd. ft. as I know what I can get logs for, thought if it works, maybe i"ll wade sawdust this spring instead of MUD,  cause theres gona be lots of it thanks in advance

[Tom]

I can't speak for the swing mill, but quatersawing with a bandmill requires at least a 15" log to get any production.  If you just look at the numbers, you are trying to harvest the radius of the log.  If it is 15" in diameter, half of that is 7", then you must remove the pith, at least an inch and probably 2".  That leaves you with 6" rough.  Now you must trim the bark, dry the board and finally straight-line the edges.  so much of that board will result in a finished 4" or 5" vertical grained board.

Rather than look for a procedure to use for all of your logs, sit down with a pencil and paper and create a picture of a log showing where you would cut it to produce Vertical Grain.  Transferring this information to your head will make it a lot easier to get the product you desire.  Regimens are like shoes.  There isn't really a one that fits all.

Quartering a log may be the way on a circle mill, It might be the best on a bandmill in most situations, and not work on a swing mill where you have better control of blade orientation.  Even  on a circle and bandmills, the logs might not be perfectly quartered but some artistic license allowed for sweep and non-centered pith.

Just an opinion to consider as you decide what you are going to do. 

[ladylake]

I like at least a 20" log, as Tom mentioned a 15" would work but you'll only get narrow QS boards. I think a swing mill works real good for QS as you can cut across the grain where ever you want.   Steve

[sigidi]

Donny, this is some casuarina timber I QS'd down here in Aus, admittedly this was a very small log and usually I wouldn't even backsaw a log this small, maybe 12" diameter, but it was a 'special' job where I was trying to show the kind of things I could do for them http://www.coolum.com.au/display_listing.asp?id=654





This might help with what Tom was talking about 'transferring the info to your head', easy enough to do a pretty good job on QS timber with a swinger, take a look;



or a bit of an easier pattern to work with while using a swinger, but still getting a good amount of QS boards;

[Captain]

That's some nice tiger in that casuarina Allan

[ErikC]

 That log might be small, but it looks like it would be worth the trouble to me, with that figure. 8)

[Ianab]

I would think that you will be more efficient to just Qsaw on the swingmill. The patterns Allan posted show how you are going to recover the best possible Qsawn boards, with basically no more work than cutting the log any other way.

The "corner" boards aren't waste, they are just Rift sawn and perfectly useful. You are going to get those boards no matter what mill you use.

By resawing on a bandmill you Might get one more board, or not. If the quarter or cant bows a bit when you release it for the log you might loose that extra board while cutting out the bow. All that extra work for very little gain.

Ian

[sigidi]

Not to hi-jack things but,

That's some nice tiger in that casuarina Allan

Take a look at this, Gympie Messmate - a species with a very small local range, this particular Messmate doesn't grow anywhere else in Aus;

That log might be small, but it looks like it would be worth the trouble to me, with that figure. 8)

Erik, it was great to see the grain in it, I took home a stick and chucked it through the planer so they could see/feel the feature in the grain a lot better than being rough sawn. Most fellas here don't bother with casuarina as it tends to be looked at as a bit of a PITA, but I was trying to 'show' off to get a regular gig from the resort.

...The patterns Allan posted show how you are going to recover the best possible Qsawn boards, with basically no more work than cutting the log any other way... By resawing on a bandmill you Might get one more board, or not. If the quarter or cant bows a bit when you release it for the log you might loose that extra board while cutting out the bow. All that extra work for very little gain.

Ian

Ditto :D

[Tom]

I've sawed a bit of casuarina here in the States.   It is called Australian Pine in South Florida and has become a terrible invasive.  I had the idea of sawing it for flooring because my wife absolutely  loved it.  Not only is the grain pretty, but the coloring is dramatic as well, going from cream colored sapwood to streaks of red and browns in the center.

I found that the internal stresses were too much for a steady production.  The retail market wouldn't stand the charges that would be required to produce the product.  I did make some pretty boards though.   I had to start with 1 1/2" (6/4) and the board would be 1" in the middle and 3" on the other end.  It was all I could do to keep it from jumping right of of the mill. 

If someone could find a way to economically produce flooring from it here, they would have real niche market to themselves.  People will practically give it away to get rid of it, in S. Florida.

[LOGDOG]

Now that's some pretty wood right there! WOW!

LOGDOG

[donny hochstetler]

thanks guys for the feedback Im planing on digging out my mill tomorrow then getting 3 large whiteoak logs for starters see what I can do I found one local guy that would buy the quartersawn wood does anyone know what is a fair price or maybe other ideas in marketing this I know I can get the logs thought if I find the right markets maybe I could do more but well see how the first several goe ill try to post pict.

[Captain]

Yes, send in pics, we like pics   ;D

[sigidi]

Yeah Donny - What Captain said 8) ;D

[scsmith42]

Donny, I quartersaw almost exclusively with my Peterson 10" WPF.  My preference is to mill logs between 30" - 50" in diameter, but anything over 22" or thereabouts will yield 8" or better QS boards.

On smaller logs I mill somewhat similar to Allan, however I typically will "read the log" and alter my milling patterns to yield the highest grade.

As far as pricing is concerned, I really like to get $4.00 bd ft or more for 5/4 FAS / Select KD boards under 10" wide, and over 10" the price goes up significantly, depending upon the board and the quality.  Old growth logs (tight rings) are priced higher as well.

Here is a 20" wide quartersawn red oak board that I milled from a 50" diameter log.  There's no pithwood in this board either!

[donny hochstetler]

my computer is acting up i"m not sure whats going on its alright this morning anyways i"m plannig on cuttting today I went and got three nice whiteoak logs lastnight 574 ft. in three logs there about 12ft. long Thats a nice wide board there how do you find the mill to do in hdwd. I guess i"m a litttle intimadated as all i"v cut is pine ,its probably just what your used to just settle down and find your pace we"ll see what happens The guy that I talked to wants it sawed 1 /7,16 is that normal he says quartersawn will shrink a tad more in the drying process  goodday

[scsmith42]

my computer is acting up i"m not sure whats going on its alright this morning anyways i"m plannig on cuttting today I went and got three nice whiteoak logs lastnight 574 ft. in three logs there about 12ft. long Thats a nice wide board there how do you find the mill to do in hdwd. I guess i"m a litttle intimadated as all i"v cut is pine ,its probably just what your used to just settle down and find your pace we"ll see what happens The guy that I talked to wants it sawed 1 /7,16 is that normal he says quartersawn will shrink a tad more in the drying process  goodday

Congrats on the three nice logs. 

I find that the Peterson does fine in the hardwood - usually when cutting horizontally I'll make two 5" passes instead of one 10" pass.  On the really large logs, I'll take more time to "read" the log as well as studying it while milling - I'm after max quality and max quantity of very wide boards, so sometimes I'll mill 1/3 of the log, and then flip it and mill some more, and then divide what's left into two large slabs so that I can double cut them both.  This doubles my yield of very large boards, but it really adds to the overall time spent per bd ft.

Pine is fun to cut - mills a little faster than the hardwood, but it's all doable!

Yes, QS shrinks more in thickness when drying as compared with FS.  However, it's prized for some applications because it moves less across it's face after it's dried.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Ive only done afew Q/S logs on a Lucas over the years mosly done backsawn on them but ive done a fair wack in the h/wood mill i worked at afew years back  ;) we do it down here for stabilty and reduced degrade during drying for aperance grade timbers and its also easier to match boards from different batches for furniture makers as the grains more consistant   ;)

Donny it sounds like you went well and not bad sized logs you had to saw it out of Mate  ;)

Allan and SCSmith thats some pretty timber you have both sawn there fellas  ;) ;D 8) 8) 8)

Regards Chris 

[sigidi]

Good Luck with it all Donny - just remember the mill will do it just the same in hwd as sftwd, but maybe a little slower than you are used to seeing it eat softwood. I almost exclusively cut hardwood down here and every now and then get the pleasure to fly through some pine. So no need for any anxiety. and post us pics!!

Chris the sad part about my pics earlier of that fabulous grain, the 250mm (10") wide piece was rejected by the customer, I found out later, and the other posts ended up being stays on corner posts in our paddock fencing :( oh well ;D

[Meadows Miller]

You must have a Bloody Nice Looking fence then Allan    :D :D ;) ;D 8) 8)  I had some nice Fiddle come up in afew of the  Red Ironbark logs  i was sawing for dad the other day for a 40x22' Bbq shelter for Bendigo council cut a heap of it from 3.0(10') to 7.2 (24') 205x205 mm/8x8s and a fair amount of 8x3" by 10' the new 10" lucas just chewed through it  ;) ;D ;D 8) Ill tell you  I like sawing hardwoods more than pine it gives you a better bottom line  ;) :D ;D ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[donny hochstetler]

I sawed em up, learned a lot, as i"v never done this before, I knew what qrtr. sawn looked like just didn"t know how to make it ,I was impressed how the saw handled the hdwood, its a little tough to flip the blade on them big ones up high, havn"t scaled any lumber yet was gonna stick it on mon. then i"ll see what I got out of em,  pic. next week, as my 13 yr. old will have to do it {almost makes ya mad ,but I just havn"t got what it takes }one thing I noticed is that, now    i"m refering to only quartersawn ,not the rift, is that some has the what I call fleck ,some is obvious ,some you have to look at just the right angle ,some depends on the light or shadow ect. my question is does all quartersawn lmbr. have fleck or is it considered  quartersawn, according to the grain, and the fleck is just a bonus ,hope this makes sense, thanks again for all the help, I was also wondering about the value of the rift, is it like just regular flatsawn in value, or would it be more, I realize its hard to judge without seeing the product One thing I noticed is the excitement level goes up according to the amount of fleck flicking your eyes :D :D 8) sorta like seeing a nice buck on opening morning .

[donny hochstetler]

here are a couple pictures from the white oak we quartersawed last week not the best quality ,after it was all over we discovered the camera was on black n white

[LOGDOG]

I like the black and white effect. Kind of makes me want to take some photos in black and white myself for the scrapbook. 

[Ianab]

Think you had the Camera set on "Sepia", that makes it look like the old plate photographs from 100 years ago.

You could have told us it was your Grandad, with his antique swingmill and 1903 Bobcat  ;) :D

Ian

[Captain]

Donny, those will do